The Future Is Now: Peter Quintas of SOMA Global On How Their Technological Innovation Will Shake Up E-Commerce
An Interview With Fotis Georgiadis
People & Culture is EVERYTHING — Great people drive a great culture. A great culture drives great products and customer service. Great products and customer service create happy customers. Many may say “your customer comes first”, but I believe that “people come first”.
As a part of our series about cutting edge technological breakthroughs, I had the pleasure of interviewingPeter Quintas.
Peter is the Chief Executive Officer and co-founder of SOMA Global, responsible for driving product and platform development, defining business goals and executing through growth, and for general operational and financial health. Over the past 20 years, Peter has held executive and CTO positions in several technology companies such as Nomi, InterAct Public Safety Systems and True Systems. His experience and expertise has been focused on high-growth businesses in enterprise software and launching innovative technology solutions.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Can you tell us a story about what brought you to this specific career path?
I grew up around technology. My dad was in tech, my brother was in tech, which naturally led to my interest. My high school had a computer science program, I continued with Computer Engineering at the University of Illinois at Chicago. A lot of my classmates there were trending toward working for the big consulting firms — I was severely allergic to that corporate culture and joined a startup my senior year.
After running through a few startups, I was part of a group that acquired a public safety technology company, which is where I got my start in this space. After spending a few years working on that project and almost a dozen years later, I got back into the space, knowing that law enforcement and first responders were underserved due to aging technology and legacy vendors. They deserve better.
Can you share the most interesting story that happened to you since you began your career?
That’s a tough one. Every week brings a new, interesting story.
Can you tell us about the cutting edge technological breakthroughs that you are working on? How do you think that will help people?
We are bringing a new era of critical-response technologies to public safety and government agencies. SOMA Global is the only company that has built a truly cloud-native, robust, configurable platform that addresses the nuance of state and local policies and procedures. Our partner agencies can access our applications from any device, anywhere and share data inter-agency with ease. Future innovation is accelerated on our modern platform allowing for low/no code development, interacting with rich media and devices and leveraging artificial intelligence to automate tasks. The SOMA Platform (as a whole) IS the cutting edge breakthrough.
How do you think this might change the world?
I’m not sure about changing the world, but domestically our law enforcement and first responders deserve cutting edge technology to help better serve their communities and serving them is our mission.
Keeping “Black Mirror” in mind, can you see any potential drawbacks about this technology that people should think more deeply about?
I don’t watch “Black Mirror”. Sorry!
Was there a “tipping point” that led you to this breakthrough? Can you tell us that story?
The roots of how the SOMA Platform and how it led to being a differentiating breakthrough started in the first month of founding. We partnered with 4 large agencies of varying types (State, County, Local, Campus) and built the SOMA Platform to serve all types. Coincidentally this has much broader implications rooting back to our country’s founding. The Tenth Amendment says that the Federal Government only has those powers delegated in the Constitution — If it isn’t listed, it belongs to the states or to the people. This created a divergent and complex set of requirements to support that nuance of state and local laws that we think the SOMA Platform solves.
What do you need to lead this technology to widespread adoption?
Time. The widespread adoption is happening more quickly than I had originally thought. The next 18–36 months will fly by quickly.
What have you been doing to publicize this idea? Have you been using any innovative marketing strategies?
Until 2021, we had largely grown through word-of-mouth. With our first outside investment, we recently started building a stronger go-to-market presence and will be continuing to invest over the next 18 months.
None of us are able to achieve success without some help along the way. Is there a particular person who you are grateful towards who helped get you to where you are? Can you share a story about that?
Hands down my Dad. He taught me tenacity. He taught me hard work. He taught me kindness.
How have you used your success to bring goodness to the world?
I’d like to think that the mission of the company results in a better world. Internally we pride ourselves on our culture, health and wellness of our team. Externally, I believe the number one thing I can personally do to bring goodness to the world is be a good husband, father and role model for my kids.
What are your “5 Things I Wish Someone Told Me Before I Started” and why.
Just Do It — SOMA Global is my first role as Founder and CEO. Although I played very entrepreneurial and principal roles in several startups, this is the first that I started (with my Co-Founder Nick Stohlman). I should have done this a decade earlier.
People & Culture is EVERYTHING — Great people drive a great culture. A great culture drives great products and customer service. Great products and customer service create happy customers. Many may say “your customer comes first”, but I believe that “people come first”.
Kindness Wins — In the long game, kindness wins over “cut-throat”. It also feels less stressful to stay kind in a cut-throat situation.
You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. 🙂
Respect and treat our law enforcement and first responders with kindness. They have an unbelievably difficult and dangerous job protecting our communities. They are largely overworked and underpaid. Appreciate them.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
“Genuine kindness is the ultimate strength” — @garyvee. I have a “no-assholes” rule and it has served me well both personally and professionally.
Some very well known VCs read this column. If you had 60 seconds to make a pitch to a VC, what would you say? He or she might just see this if we tag them 🙂
Hahaha. Interestingly, I don’t think about this much. I think more about how to continue to build a good team and culture, innovate on our platform and serve our customers best — value is inherently created from that. If you do it right, the value is obvious to VCs.
How can our readers follow you on social media?
@peterquintas on Twitter
Thank you so much for joining us. This was very inspirational.
Agile Businesses: Adrian Pyne Of Pyne Consulting Limited On How Businesses Pivot and Stay Relevant In The Face of Disruptive Technologies
An Interview With Fotis Georgiadis
Keep your eye on the ball: A key part of the philosophy of agility is focus on the value you are after. In complex Transformations its common for influential stakeholders to crawl out of the woodwork to add bits of scope to their advantage without using their budgets. And even within the valid scope some requirements are more important than others.
As part of my series about the “How Businesses Pivot and Stay Relevant In The Face of Disruptive Technologies”, I had the pleasure of interviewing Adrian Pyne.
A project professional for over 30 years, Adrian has led organisational transformation in 11 industries and in the public sector, in the UK and abroad. The author of books on programme management and agile governance and assurance, he has contributed to the evolution of programme, portfolio and PMO standards and is a regular speaker, visiting lecturer, blogger and researcher. Adrian is a Fellow of the Association of Project Management. More on his work and writing at his Agile Beyond IT newsletter.
Thank you so much for joining us in this interview series. Our readers would love to “get to know you” a bit better. Can you tell us a bit about your ‘backstory’ and how you got started?
My start in the 1980s was thankfully the result of a disruptive technology. Software development had been via punch cards — a bit of technology archaeology. They were slow to use, cumbersome and prone to simple mistakes if you punched just a single hole wrongly. I had not the patience, so the advent of computer terminals and early networks opened the door for software engineers like me. I could code online; simple mistakes took seconds not hours or even days to put right.
Eventually I moved to managing software projects then telecommunications engineering. Digital telecoms emerged as another disruptive technology and companies shed thousands of engineers and managers, so I went freelance. Since 1996 I have led or rescued transformation programmes and built project delivery capabilities in more than 11 industries from aviation to mining to coffee! And in both commercial and public sectors. I see myself as a project professional.
Can you share a story about the funniest mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lessons or ‘take aways’ you learned from that?
Funny? Well, I suppose we laughed afterwards. As a rookie software engineer, I used a language called Cobol. Yes, I am that old. Without boring readers, a Cobol programme had four divisions (parts). Three which identified the programme, the data and the files to be used and the fourth comprised the logic. The accepted coding technique was to write the first three then put a single logic statement in the Procedure division (logic bit). You could then ‘compile’ the programme and its data stuff to ensure it is correct before coding the logic bit. I did the first stage and all was well. I did the logic coding and checked through it and again ‘compiled’ successfully. Beaming I ran the programme. It duly ran to end, opening files, processing the logic and closing the files. Unfortunately, no output data was produced.
To cut a long story short first I checked the logic, then a colleague, then my boss. Dejected I went home and the next morning at once discovered my schoolboy error. The first line of logic remained ‘stop run’, which was the single line of logic used to test the data bit at the beginning. So of course, the programme ran to end, opening and closing files. But the ‘stop run’ first line meant that all remaining logic was ignored, and the programme did nothing.
It took some weeks to live that one down. I was far better at dealing with people than code, and probably explains why I moved into project management quickly! A valuable and long-lasting lesson.
None of us are able to achieve success without some help along the way. Is there a particular person who you are grateful towards who helped get you to where you are? Can you share a story?
Of the many I could pay tribute to, the late and much-lamented Geoff Reiss stands out. The father of programme management and designer of project management software, Geoff was my guru from the early 1990s when I joined the Association of Project Management and ProgM, its programme management Specific Interest Group.
Back in the day Geoff would have been described as one of nature’s gentlemen. Today I will simply say that he was a superb, humane person. He led ProgM as an inspirational, collaborative leader. A single story cannot do him justice. Suffice to say that under his understated leadership he attracted some amazing people who were instrumental in the early evolution not just of programme management, but also portfolio management, project/portfolio offices and benefits management. Geoff especially supported my ideas on stakeholder management and communications planning.
He also facilitated collaborations between ProgM and other bodies such as the British Computer Society’s PromsG group. Ultimately, he brought together Malcolm Anthony, John Chapman, Geof Leigh, Paul Rayner (also much missed) and I to write the first edition of the Gower Handbook of Programme Management. Without Geoff I could not have been part of those amazing and innovative times.
Extensive research suggests that “purpose driven businesses” are more successful in many areas. When your company started, what was its vision, what was its purpose?
I am going to cheat in this interview because as an agent of change in one sense I am invisible. My company is not relevant, its what my clients and I do together that is important. It may seem strange but not all organisations are purpose driven, or rather, there are lots of purposes, sometimes conflicting and sometimes more important and beneficial to some executives than perhaps the organisation and its shareholders.
As a change agent my role has in part been to achieve focus on the value to be delivered through change then sustain that focus and energy — Kotter is still right about creating AND sustaining the energy of change.
Thank you for all that. Let’s now turn to the main focus of our discussion. Can you tell our readers a bit about what your business does? How do you help people?
I mentioned earlier that I went freelance as a project management consultant in 1996. Until about twelve years ago I led transformations or the building of project management capabilities for organisations. Then I changed the business model to purer consultancy. Analysing project delivery problems, advising and helping my clients to deliver projects more effectively by creating environments in which projects can succeed.
At the same time, I increasingly saw ‘agile’ being thrown around as a buzzword. Like Ecommerce some years earlier it was seen by some as the coming thing, by others as the magic bullet. And like the early days of Ecommerce a lot of people were getting agile expensively wrong. Having always maintained an interest and a watching brief over development methods, and of course managed them. Understanding the Agile Manifesto and its developments into Scrum etc. were easy enough to grasp.
Where my interest and commercial opportunity combined was where agility was being adapted — mostly disastrously — to project management. So, I set out to make getting project agility right the core of my business. It also became my professional focus with many lectures, blogs, articles and ultimately my book Agile Beyond IT as outputs.
Which technological innovation has encroached or disrupted your industry? Can you explain why this has been disruptive?
Not all disruptors are technological. Given my previous answer perhaps not surprisingly the disruptor relevant to me is Agility. Although agile working predates it, the 2001 Agile Manifesto gave shape to agile software development approaches such as Scrum, XP and so on. It remains the most coherent description of what agility means, in four values and twelve principles.
Agility has almost become ubiquitous for software development. Evidenced by it being core to the UK Government’s Digital Strategy. But agility has long moved beyond IT, today you can find agile marketing, agile engineering, agile construction and agile project management. Whole companies have adopted and adapted to agile business operating models. Just look at sector disruptors such as Amazon and Tesla. They have agility running through them like words in a stick of rock. Non-agile organisations in threatened sectors need to adapt or go the way of buggy-whip makers.
Just one other word, agility runs in parallel with another key trend that is impacting business models. I refer to the projectisation of work, even of business-as-usual activity. Put these two together properly and you have a powerful new operating model. How’s that for disruption?
What did you do to pivot as a result of this disruption?
Being a consultant and in my fifties it was easy. I had reached a point where I was fortunate in being able to pick and choose the people and organisations I wanted to work with, and the type of work I wanted to do. So, I decided to align my passion for getting project agility right, with my commercial model. Work should be fun if possible and mostly, it has been.
Was there a specific “Aha moment” that gave you the idea to start this new path? If yes, we’d love to hear the story.
My brain seems to be wired to adapt, I LOVE change and dealing with it. I had always maintained an interest in methods and how to flex and adapt them for different projects and organisational settings.
Agile software development engaged my attention in 2008 while consulting to the UK Department of Work and Pensions. Some IT suppliers were using agile software development methods and I became very interested in both them and the Agile Manifesto. Then in 2011 I read the UK Institute of Government report System Error, which paved the way for agile software development to become key to the coming UK Government Digital Strategy. It was not so much a light bulb moment but a warning siren. I could see how misinterpretation of agility could lead to mistakes, which alas rapidly transpired.
One quote that worried me was in the section ‘Agile projects’ which said Projects should be “modular, iterative, responsive to change and have users at the core.” Most of this is fine even fantastic, but the seeds of confusion between project management with software development agility had been sown. Just for example, saying that agile projects should be iterative is strongly implying — if not defining — that agile projects can ONLY have iterative life-cycles. Which is dangerous rubbish. Agile software development usually is iterative. But IT enabled projects don’t just deliver software but do something with it. E.g. train people, change operating processes and so on. These activities are commonly serial, or to put it another way, waterfall.
I was both enraged and energised by the opportunity to help organisations not waste investment in agile projects.
So, how are things going with this new direction?
More than 10 years on it still forms the basis of both my client work and professional interest. I suppose you could say that both have culminated in my recent book, Agile Beyond IT. I have poured my own experience and that of colleagues, plus much observation and research into it.
Can you share the most interesting story that happened to you since you started this pivot?
Ah now that is a difficult one, mostly as I am lucky enough to choose who I work with, and I have worked with some talented business leaders and professionals. That said let me tell you about an airport which I think is still the busiest single runway airport in the world. The COO wanted a higher performing and leaner project delivery capability. When we discussed the organisation and especially the leadership culture he had built, agility immediately sprang to mind. Unfortunately, the airport’s owners previously had bad experiences with Agile and the ‘A’ word was taboo.
Our answer was to build an agile delivery capability but not labelling it as such. In this case Shakespeare was right, this agile rose by any other name smelled as sweet.
What would you say is the most critical role of a leader during a disruptive period?
Without doubt to establish, communicate and maintain both a clear vision for the needed Change, to sustain the energy of that Change and to build Trust so that even the skeptical or fearful will follow.
When the future seems so uncertain, what is the best way to boost morale? What can a leader do to inspire, motivate and engage their team?
After graduation I worked in retail management with a company called Rumbelows for a while. My role was opening new stores and rescuing failing stores. One day I suggested to the Personnel Director that sales would increase if staff felt they were valued, or words to that effect. The prevailing culture being the opposite. He looked at me as if I was a malignant alien life-form. I soon left for IT and am still enjoying a great career. What of Rumbelows? Well, they disappeared not many years later. Funny that.
And if Covid 19 has taught us anything it is that even if they are working remotely you have to engage with your people, not just manage but lead them, albeit in different ways than before. Let them know they are valued, keep them focused on what they need to be doing — and why. Let them know they are being actively managed but also being looked after.
How? Keep talking to them, individually and as teams. Discuss how what they are doing is contributing to the goal, helping customers and so on. Listen to their ideas and their grumbles and take them seriously. If you don’t agree with something let them know and explain. Remember the old exchange.
‘You are not listening to me!’
‘I am, I just don’t agree with you…. because….’
That ‘because’ is important.
Is there a “number one principle” that can help guide a company through the ups and downs of turbulent times?
You only have to look at history to realise that adversity is when great leaders truly shine. Whether it is Julius Caesar outnumbered almost 10–1 at the Battle of Alesia (in modern France) 52 BCE, Winston Churchill for the UK in the second world war or the numerous examples during the Covid 19 pandemic. Always remember that even great leaders make mistakes. What is important is how they respond to them.
And I must cheat again by saying a two-part principle that also happen to reflect agility very well; keep your eye on the big picture and your feet on the ground.
Can you share 3 or 4 of the most common mistakes you have seen other businesses make when faced with a disruptive technology? What should one keep in mind to avoid that?
Fear is a big factor in disruption. Carol Osterweil in her new book Neuroscience for project success: why people behave as they do, explains how we are hard wired to react fearfully to Change. Such fear often makes even Boards behave irrationally, or in a knee-jerk manner, or not in an integrated way, perhaps even in a scattergun manner. E.g. blindly cutting costs instead of focusing investment.
If you don’t believe agility is a major disruptor, remember what I said earlier about agility, Amazon and Tesla. Add to that evidence such as from PA Consulting in 2021 that agile businesses are more profitable. These suggest that a considered, deliberate, integrated move to an agile business model is not just defensive, but for survival.
Such transformations bring two other gurus to mind. Kotter and Abrahamson. Kotter has long shown that it is not enough for a Board to start transformations. Board level people are busy, their attention may be taken elsewhere and a crucial investment in Change languishes in favour of something in their operational comfort zone. A Board MUST sustain the energy of Change, i.e. maintain their leadership, their engagement. Remembering also what I said about the increasing projectisation of work. Boards, and those aspiring to them MUST become more familiar and comfortable with project-based working.
Another common behaviour when faced with major change, arising from disruptors or just strategic change, is throwing the baby out with the bath water. I have seen two companies merge and the management of one simply thrown away. Abrahamson suggests you should find out what works, what is good and build on it. The response to the merger should have been to seek out the best talent. Intriguingly, within a year a significant number of those made redundant were brought back as consultants. I wonder what that did to the bottom line?
Ok. Thank you. Here is the primary question of our discussion. Based on your experience and success, what are the five most important things a business leader should do to pivot and stay relevant in the face of disruptive technologies? Please share a story or an example for each.
A simple question with so many possible answers. But my five are:
Share the vision: In 1962 John F Kennedy shared an incredible vision with the American people and the world; “to send a man to the Moon and return him safely to the Earth.” He went on: “We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things not because they are easy, but because they are hard. Because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we’re willing to accept. One we are unwilling to postpone.”
It excited people, their pride and raised morale, Greatness is not a catchphrase. His vision stimulated technology and industry and sparked much controversy. The space race was well and truly on.
Contrast that with this; “I feel just like a mushroom…kept in the dark and fed on manure”. Its an old company joke but well founded on the bitter experience of many. Such behaviour by so-called ‘management’ is pretty much guaranteed to demotivate people, reduce their morale, creativity and productivity. Its true that sometimes the outcomes of disruptive change can be unpleasant, e.g. redundancy for some, but consider this. You are on a train which halts in the middle of nowhere. 5 minutes pass then 10 then 15 with no announcements.
How do you feel?
Now consider this, you are on a train which halts in the middle of nowhere. Immediately the train manager explains there is a hold up, what it is, what is happening and that the delay could be 15 minutes, 20 at most. Updates and confirmation of the delay time are given regularly.
How do you feel?
The hold up is the same but passengers are far less disgruntled, thankful even for the briefings.
Even bad news can be sweetened. Which leads me to…..
Communicate intelligently: When I started out in projects people simply did not figure. Project management was about plans, risks, finance, change control etc. But it is people who deliver projects or not. And in the environment around a project there are people who may help…or hinder it. Managing stakeholders, mostly through communications, is best done with intelligence, in a systematic way. This is an old but still great story.
On 16th April 1995 a single digit was added to every phone number in the UK. A goal as simple to state as Kennedy’s Moon goal. BT’s PhONEday programme was the biggest of the providers and cost about £80m over four years. I was its communications lead, both internally and externally. We had a clear stakeholder and communications strategy and extensive and necessarily dynamic (agile?) plans. I spent £11m of the £80m preparing both our commercial and residential customers, and our people internally. Also to gain support and reduce criticism from the ‘influencers’ of the day, mostly in the media. Come PhONEday, awareness was higher than we dared hoped. Two postscripts. Firstly, one month after PhONEday we held a post programme party. The Group Managing Director made a brilliant and short speech. He said: “do you know what I have heard about PhONEday for the past month?………Absolutely nothing, WELL DONE!” Secondly, and more recently a social media marketing consultant friend re-worked my external communications plan for social media. He estimated that my costs would be closer to £4m rather than the original £11m (1995 value, about £20m today).
Keep your eye on the ball: A key part of the philosophy of agility is focus on the value you are after. In complex Transformations its common for influential stakeholders to crawl out of the woodwork to add bits of scope to their advantage without using their budgets. And even within the valid scope some requirements are more important than others.
Some years ago I helped mobilise a major Transformation programme for a supermarket, to be managed Agile. We established a Business Architect leading the Change panel. Together they ensured there was no scope creep and prioritised requirements from the outset.
Embrace Change during the journey: The Agile Manifesto is clear that change during delivery should be embraced. Quite right but adapting for projects I add a caveat……embrace change so long as it at least maintains or at best enhances value delivery. It sounds a bit of a platitude but I mean it.
As head of the Programme Office for a major retail bank’s transformation programme, I found that the IT project manager was struggling with some very active users who raised a high volume of change requests. Now you could say we were being agile as we developed requirements as we went along. But in fact there had been significant discovery activity. Our solution was twofold. [1] all change requests had to include justification and not just be a wish list, and, [2] there was an initial triage to match and prioritise requests against the programme’s goals. The volume was greatly reduced, and the project manager had more time to actively manage the project and its people. We lived agile change control.
Keep control like a parent teaching their child to ride a bicycle:
Agile leadership, sometimes called hands-off is a bit like a parent teaching their child to ride a bike. You may remember that point where the stabilisers were off and you had just taken your hand away from their back, or the saddle. Off they went, a little wobbly but growing in stability and confidence. What were you doing? Certainly you were not just standing there as they went into the distance. Perhaps to encounter another child on a bike, or a dog, a jogger or holly bush. Of course not, you are jogging along behind. Close enough to intervene if they call or at your judgement. Or to let them get on with it if no help is needed.
I had a small involvement in an agile managed nuclear engineering programme. Yes, agile nuclear engineering, you heard it here first. The programme was to solve some complex, highly dangerous engineering issues not encountered before. The executive level realised they had to allow the engineering team to be largely self-selecting, drawing esoteric expertise as needed, and to be self-organising. But management kept in touch in a hands-off manner.
If you give a team formed of the right people, a clear goal and clear operating parameters…..TRUST them and keep in touch.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
“I would pick more daisies”. There are a few versions of this but the relevance to me of the whole text is that its OK to make mistakes if you learn from them and that work-life balance is vital for health , a good life and your employer.
For the first, I was for many years fearful of error until a great boss coached me about learning from them. I am still learning, from mistakes and from experience.
As to balance, I found in my 40s (I am now 65) that you can do well for your clients and yourself by balancing work and personal/family time. I found I enjoyed work more, did better for my clients and felt so much better in body, e.g. though regular swimming and mental health.
Given the evolution of ways of working during and post-Covid 19, this is current but I won’t claim it’s the zeitgeist.
P.S. Don’t actually pick the daises or other wildflowers but definitely make time to walk among and enjoy them.
How can our readers further follow your work?
I mostly write articles and blogs on LinkedIn, including my Agile Beyond IT LinkedIn newsletter. Plus of course there is the book Agile Beyond IT.
Thank you so much for sharing these important insights. We wish you continued success and good health!
Agile Businesses: Jay Mozo Of TEKsystems On How Businesses Pivot and Stay Relevant In The Face of Disruptive Technologies
An Interview With Fotis Georgiadis
Be more transparent with your team: Transparency plays a vital role in the digital transformation journey. It helps keep your employees invested and motivated in the enterprise vision. Define clear goals and communicate openly while simultaneously welcoming any constructive criticism of your vision.
As a part of my series about the “How Businesses Pivot and Stay Relevant In The Face of Disruptive Technologies”, I had the pleasure of interviewing Jay Mozo.
Jay Mozo, Director — Transformation Services, TEKsystems. With over 20 years of experience in the tech industry, Jay Mozo has spent most of his career mastering cloud and DevOps. Prior to TEKsystems, he founded a small IT firm and also worked as the lead architect at State Farm. More recently, Jay was a leader at AWS’s professional services organization and helped build out their DevOps practice. Jay is passionate about cloud, DevOps, business modernization and helping customers get delivery done faster and more efficiently.
Thank you so much for joining us in this interview series. Our readers would love to “get to know you” a bit better. Can you tell us a bit about your ‘backstory’ and how you got started?
I am a Filipino American from Detroit, MI, born and raised. My parents migrated from the Philippines in the late 60s and settled in Detroit as there was an emerging Filipino culture. I started in IT as a Junior Systems (Unix) Administrator, SUN Solaris Administrator, to be exact. With the many automotive suppliers in the metropolitan Detroit area, the Unix/Reduced Instruction Set Computer (RISC) landscape was thick to support computer-aided design, computer-aided engineering, and computer-aided manufacturing systems common in the auto industry. I moved quickly up the System Administrator route and became a Senior Unix Administrator/Consultant in a fast-flying two to three years. By this time, I had started working for a defense contractor to access cutting-edge technologies. My passion in the Department of Defense world switched to enabling better software engineering environments. This grew into what I love today: helping our customers modernize their business with software and technologies.
Can you share a story about the funniest mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lessons or ‘take aways’ you learned from that?
About a decade ago, I designed a fully automated server configuration management solution that managed an entire end-to-end deployment for a large insurance company. We had a team that focused on developing the Infrastructure as Code modules but occasionally, I would get into them and make some edits. We had scheduled an automated release one day, and the deployment failed so we had to auto-roll back. The team quickly started troubleshooting but was unable to visually see where the code was giving us some merging conflicts. When updating some of the modules, I used “tabs” versus “spaces.” Those who understand coding know precisely the problem here. I think this is funny for a couple of reasons. First, it sparked tons of debate on our team because it is funny to think we were arguing over whitespaces. Also, this is a considerable debate in the industry. Later, there was a scene from that HBO show Silicon Valley that discusses it in a very humorous way! What did I learn? Coding standards are mandatory!
None of us can achieve success without some help along the way. Is there a particular person who you are grateful towards who helped get you to where you are? Can you share a story?
In late 2005 I started a consulting business with a good friend and colleague. His name is Warlito Guerra, or Warly for short. Warly and I were a great pair. I focused intensely on technology solutions, and he focused on our business’ future. I would often get wrapped up in the chaos of our customer’s environment, but I wasn’t looking at the problems with the proper mindset. Warly told me, “Jay, with chaos, comes opportunities.” Obviously there is no secret recipe there, but it was more about the conversation that followed that changed me. It wasn’t the typical opportunity-based greed conversation. Basically, it was to focus on the word “opportunity” vs. the word “chaos.” Chaos feels and sounds negative, which is not always the case. Either way, if your mindset is focused on the opportunity and the potential outcomes, it is a much healthier place. We see this as a part of the Cynefin Framework as well, overall, better decision-making will come from the right mindset. As I think about how to help our customers through this chaotic world, I stay focused on the opportunities for our customers.
Extensive research suggests that “purpose-driven businesses” are more successful in many areas. When your company started, what was its vision, what was its purpose?
We strive to be the number one transformation partner for our customers and number one career destination for our people. At TEKsystems, we join our customers on their transformation journeys — wherever they may be — to determine how to achieve their business goals and then we stick with them throughout the journey. Customers partner with us for our full-stack capabilities and speed, strategic guidance, commitment to service, delivering on our promises, hands-on collaboration and help on capitalizing on change. We build tomorrow for our customers by creating sustainable business growth.
Additionally, we know our people are what make TEKsystems what it is. We keep our people top-of-mind to ensure that our value of relationships resonates throughout the organization and then to our customers.
Thank you for all that. Let’s now turn to the main focus of our discussion. Can you tell our readers a bit about what your business does? How do you help people?
At TEKsystems we’re obsessed with technology. It’s our mission to accelerate the business transformation to solve complex technology, business and talent challenges for our customers. We work with over 80% of the Fortune 500 across the globe, delivering tailored technology solutions that span from business modernization and cloud migration to workforce development and talent solutions. Our goal is to help our customers move into a continuous transformation mindset that focuses on how organizations approach, sense and respond. We aim to help customers align business and IT so that business goals are in the driver’s seat, and IT is the enabler in meeting these identified endpoints. In short, we help people by owning change, our tagline that encompasses the work TEKsystems delivers.
Which technological innovation has encroached on or disrupted your industry? Can you explain why this has been disruptive?
Over the past two and a half years, the COVID-19 pandemic upended industries, and, for those focused on technology, we were directly challenged in operational architecture and infrastructure. While some organizations could move immediately to a resilient mindset, others struggled and lagged setting up tight restrictions that often left them unprepared to adapt to sudden changes. One example is modern cloud computing platforms such as containers and serverless technologies. These platforms helped customers achieve faster time to market and opened new market opportunities for organizations that were previously unattainable due to underlying infrastructure needs. Each organization can now aim to become a global scale organization without spending large sums of money on enterprise IT needs. The modern cloud era is forcing organizations to rethink their enterprise IT strategy from the ground up to ensure they stay ahead of the competition. As we learned during the pandemic, companies must be able to pivot quickly to avoid business risks and financial burdens.
What did you do to pivot as a result of this disruption?
We pivoted by advising our customers to sense and respond, a strategy involving actual business and delivery agility for their organizations and customers. We noticed throughout the past few years that genuinely agile organizations expect changes and have created a foundation based upon anticipating new hurdles and opportunities. It started with three essential functions: people, processes and technology.
Organizations must address their culture, following a “sense and respond” mindset with their people. It starts with leadership, ensuring that leaders understand their role and serve as “mission command” rather than “commanders and controllers.” Enterprises need to develop an environment that encourages meaningful feedback and cultivates a culture that’s open to all ideas. Then it’s the people, as incorporating various backgrounds and experiences can drive outcomes that increase confidence and safety.
We then see “sense and respond” invoke processes, where new value streams are created to align with this vision. Here, we must view new processes in business and delivery agility instead of implementing those that can be recrafted depending on customer needs.
Last is technology, otherwise known as the most significant enabler. Once organizations have the culture and processes, planning out system architecture becomes vital. We’ve noticed that data analytics and user experience are critical for sensing and responding. They become primary differentiators in emphasizing how businesses develop the agile mindset to continuously improve capabilities, including end-to-end automation, to modernize business functions.
Was there a specific “Aha moment” that gave you the idea to start this new path? If yes, we’d love to hear the story.
I think I am lucky as I have had many “aha moments,” but a few stand out to me for different reasons.
Back in 2005, the consulting company that my colleague Warly and I created was born during a long conversation at a bar. The night ended with us realizing that many great people would benefit from the right chances and training. Our mission statement would have been to help as many people as possible with better career opportunities and growth. Yeah, we made money, every business still needs to do that, but overall, we accomplished our goal. In 2015, we celebrated our success. By this time, dozens of people came into our organization and left with far better opportunities. Many of them are leaders today and operate with the same mindset of helping others.
As a technologist, I was always confident that we could make anything happen. My problem was I stayed so focused on technology. What is beyond technology is people, customers and how technology is consumed. It became clear that what matters is how the outcome improves or benefits the other side. This was my “aha moment,” when my passion quickly turned away from how to leverage technology and instead what value is needed. Also, I realized this value is necessary for professional services, but we needed to ensure that our customer’s clients, business and IT were deeply aligned.
Here is when I joined TEKsystems, after learning about who they are as an organization, precisely one that is embedded in people and culture. After joining, I was allowed to focus on my passion for aligning business, delivery and organizational transformation with technology. Since I started at TEKsystems, we have worked with companies and IT departments to deliver quality results. The exciting part of this work is that our customers engage us with maturity. First, their business leaders are aligned with our approach to continuously focus on the value that must be delivered. Also, we are seeing many IT leaders that are business savvy, given the natural value’s message. This results in a high level of business agility which we believe is the foundation for success.
These moments stick out because it provides my two biggest passions and a place to live. I’m incredibly fortunate that I work for an organization with the same passions, and it’s even in our TEKsystems’ core values. We exist to be the number one transformation partner for our customers and the number one career destination for our people!
So, how are things going with this new direction?
We are more customer-focused than ever before. We have a great suite of offerings that resulted from our push to become the number one transformation partner for our customers, and they are specifically targeted toward increasing business platform and delivering agility. Our business modernization framework and curated service offerings allowed our teams to reach more customers in significant verticals. We continue to evolve by building new sets of service offerings based on trends we see in the industry.
Can you share the most interesting story that happened to you since you started this pivot?
The number of opportunities and work we managed to secure after we made the pivot is astonishing. We work with many legacy customers with ancient technology stacks, platforms and ways of working and are willing to modernize due to the business modernization framework we have put in place.
For example, our teams at TEKsystems focused on helping customers in their enterprise modernization journey by creating programs targeting key foundational areas in digital transformation. We built programs such as modern computing platforms, enterprise operations, application modernization, data-driven enterprise and enterprise site reliability engineering (SRE). These programs focus on setting up a strategy and roadmap by identifying the current state of people, process and technologies and then laying down architectural foundations that help accelerate modernization while delivering incremental value to achieve enterprise “north stars.”
What would you say is the most critical role of a leader during a disruptive period?
I would say the most critical role of a leader during a disruptive period is to stand by the go-forward vision and decisions around modernization initiatives. Another important responsibility is maintaining business continuity while the enterprise is in a hybrid state. The modernization journey is disruptive across people, processes and technologies, and the leader’s responsibility is to motivate and effectively communicate strategic objectives and enterprise north stars to everyone in the organization.
When the future seems uncertain, what is the best way to boost morale? What can a leader do to inspire, motivate and engage their team?
There are a few things that I recommend leaders must do when an organization is going through a period of uncertainty:
Open and regular communication is a key to ensuring the team’s morale stays high during an uncertain period. Leaders should proactively engage in more conversations with the team to ensure they feel valued, informed and included. Sharing your vision, goals and expectations clearly and acting on the feedback received from the team help increase employee engagement.
Create an inclusive environment where the team can speak freely and contribute to solving business challenges, which helps increase participation from the group by engaging them further.
Promote team growth and upskilling. Modernization initiatives require the adoption of new technology, tools and processes leaders need to ensure that the team feels confident in achieving enterprise objectives by providing them opportunities for growth via upskilling and training initiatives.
Is there a “number one principle” that can help guide a company through the ups and downs of turbulent times?
Focusing on business agility would be one principle that can help guide a company through turbulent times. Business agility requires you to adapt based on changing environments. In a world where data is the new oil, leaders have access to many analytics that provide insights into where they are heading. Use these insights and proactively build strategies to ensure you are prepared for any downturns. Don’t focus on how much data but rather the innovation that realizes the value of the data. Data-driven value is critical for all business transformations.
Can you share 3 or 4 of the most common mistakes you have seen other businesses make when faced with a disruptive technology? What should one keep in mind to avoid that?
We must gauge this answer with a bit of historical context. We’ve worked with organizations that have attempted to work through modernization efforts three or four times, and they often fail due to a lack of internal alignment. Usually, the organization has minimal alignment or no direct path forward in determining its business goals.
One of the most common mistakes we see when organizations embark on digital transformation journeys is a lack of strategy. Leaders often become more tactical in solving short-term needs without understanding the implications of their choices in the long term. Digital transformation initiatives disrupt fundamental ways of working across people, processes and technologies and require a well-defined strategy covering all enterprise IT areas.
Another common mistake we see is a lack of skills and capabilities. Organizations often embark upon modernization initiatives without a plan for upskilling their workforce to support it. This results in delays in achieving the goals and increases cost exponentially.
Lack of leadership support, unrealistic timelines and organizational inertia to adopt a change are other common pitfalls encountered when businesses are on their digital transformation journey.
Ok. Thank you. Here is the primary question of our discussion. Based on your experience and success, what are the five most important things a business leader should do to pivot and stay relevant in the face of disruptive technologies? Please share a story or an example for each.
Be adaptable: The technology sector is rapidly evolving, and many great products and technologies are coming into the market. Leaders must be more flexible than ever due to the constantly changing environment to ensure their organization stays relevant to the industry trends.
Focus on your people: While navigating a hybrid enterprise state during your transformation, ensuring your employees are in a continuous learning phase is essential. Leaders must ensure there are upskilling opportunities for the employees in the organization.
Focus on significant trends in the industry: Trends today become standards tomorrow so focus on trends that are rapidly adopted in the industry and evaluate if you can leverage them to give you an edge over your competitors.
Be more transparent with your team: Transparency plays a vital role in the digital transformation journey. It helps keep your employees invested and motivated in the enterprise vision. Define clear goals and communicate openly while simultaneously welcoming any constructive criticism of your vision.
Celebrate milestones: Digital transformation journey is a multi-year initiative as a leader acknowledges your team’s efforts when key milestones are achieved. Recognition is a great motivator for employees to keep moving forward.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
“Be the servant while leading. Be unselfish. Have infinite patience, and success is yours.”
― Swami Vivekananda
Vivekananda was a great philosopher and reformer in the 18th century in India. I feel it’s essential for a leader to stay grounded and make the success of others his, hers or their priority. This quote helps me keep my priorities as a leader in check.
How can our readers further follow your work?
Readers can check out some of our work, mission and more at TEKsystems.com and by following us on LinkedIn and Twitter.
Thank you so much for sharing these important insights. We wish you continued success and good health!
Clear communications are the key to widespread success. You could have the best widget in the world, but if you write like an engineer (like me), it will take a lot longer to succeed.
As a part of our series about cutting edge technological breakthroughs, I had the pleasure of interviewingScot Duncan.
Scot is the Founder and President of Conservant Systems Inc, and the inventor of the Department of Defense (DoD), Department of Energy (DoE) and California Energy Commission-award-winning High Efficiency Dehumidification System (HEDS).
Scot started working in this profession as a “trained monkey” at the age of 12, working with technicians on the Honeywell Delta 2000, making $0.50/hour (Cash!!!). At 15, he was on the Honeywell payroll as a part time control system field technician assistant. At 18, he was a full time Honeywell engineer. At 27 he started a consulting engineering firm specializing in high efficiency HVAC systems and chiller plant designs.
Scot has been an HVAC Subject Matter Expert (SME) for the DoD since the 1990’s. He invented the Load Based Optimization System (LOBOS) & High Efficiency Dehumidification System (HEDS). Three times Environmental Security Technology Certification Program (ESTCP) award winner, plus winner of the DoE “Call for Innovation” and “High Impact Technology” global competitions. HEDS was the only HVAC equipment to make it through the USAF AFWERX “Base of the Future” technology challenge. His technologies and designs have won multiple awards from ASHRAE, the DoD, the DoE, the California Energy Commission, General Services Administration (GSA), USAF AFWERX and others.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Can you tell us a story about what brought you to this specific career path?
So, I got started down this career path when I was 12 years old! My dad was a long time Honeywell engineer and in 1972 computers were just starting to make it into the heating ventilating and air conditioning, HVAC, world.
They were very slow and very primitive and they needed to have operators at the main control panel and also out in the field when they were checking out the equipment.
Honeywell brought me in to sit at the operator’s consul and listen to the radio and do what I was told — essentially punching buttons and telling them what I saw.
They told me it was a choice between me and a trained monkey, but I was much more cost-effective because I did not need diaper changes as often as the monkey did so that made me less expensive! I was getting paid $0.50 per hour (cash!) and they later told me I was overpaid!
When I was 15, I was actually on the Honeywell payroll getting a paycheck as a field technician assistant and when I was 18, I went full-time as a Honeywell engineer in the controls division.
So, it seems like I was predestined to go down this path.
One thing about air conditioning is that there are an unlimited number of problems that need to be solved, and I love solving problems!
If you go to any commercial building, most complaints about the building are based on poor air conditioning system operation. I spent a career learning how to solve people’s HVAC problems, and that was a blast!
Can you share the most interesting story that happened to you since you began your career?
Maybe not most interesting, but definitely the most exciting! When I was 17 or 18, I was in the field helping check out a Superior Courts HVAC system in the middle of summer during a heat wave. I accidentally shut down the cooling system, and the temperature in the building skyrocketed. Judges don’t like it hot! It was not the highlight of my career.
Can you tell us about the cutting edge technological breakthroughs that you are working on? How do you think that will help people?
At the request of the Department of Defense, we developed a very simple, reliable, efficient, low maintenance, energy recovery HVAC system that can control relative humidity and help electrify and decarbonize the HVAC process and provide highly purified air to the facility occupants. It is called the “High Efficiency Dehumidification System” (HEDS for short).
It is so simple that the first patent took over 4 years to get approved! The Patent Examiner kept saying “this is too simple, I know someone must have done it before you!”
The technology can help dramatically reduce the carbon footprint of commercial office buildings, pharmaceutical, logistics centers, schools, colleges, universities and industrial facilities as well as hospitals, laboratories, and other large energy intensive facilities, including large yachts and ships.
HVAC systems have gotten so complex that they are very difficult to maintain, and with the pool of skilled trades people dropping every year, these complex systems can lead to large facility problems including comfort complaints, biological growth, the spread of infectious diseases via the HVAC system, corrosion, excess energy consumption, and an excessive carbon footprint.
Fixing these problems is helpful in itself and one of the larger benefits is that when people are more comfortable they are also more productive.
A 1% improvement in worker productivity can create more revenue than the entire utility bill costs for many facilities.
Most people don’t know about the link between worker comfort and worker productivity, and the huge benefits that a properly operating HVAC system can drop to the corporate bottom line.
How do you think this might change the world?
Lives are lost and climate change is made worse by many installed HVAC systems, HEDS can help stop those issues. HEDS can be a big part of the “E” in the ESG equation.
The carbon footprint of HVAC systems is huge on a global basis. HEDS helps to electrify the HVAC process in an energy efficient manner that can help reduce the spread of infectious diseases, mold and corrosion. These benefits are significant to the world.
The technology is so simple and so easy to maintain it can be deployed in developing countries that really have the need for it. Most of the growth in air conditioning loads, and the electrical demands that go along with it, will be coming from developing nations. Setting the efficiency bar high now will help ensure that the future is not wasteful of peoples limited resources.
Just looking at the Healthcare industry, the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) estimates that over 75,000 people die in the USA due to Healthcare Associated Infections. Many of those deaths are caused by the HVAC systems spreading infectious diseases and biological pathogens. If it is that bad in the USA, can you imagine the number of lives lost and the damage done to survivors in less developed parts of the world?
HEDS can help bring healthcare and HVAC equity around the world. As an example, many hospitals have problems with their air conditioning systems either growing or circulating mold, fungus and infectious diseases. HEDS can reduce those problems in a significant manner without requiring a huge maintenance work force. If HEDS is brought to the healthcare sector on a global basis, think about how many lives can be saved by the reduction of healthcare associated infections and the airborne spread of infectious disease and biological pathogens. Too many people die each year from preventable causes inside the healthcare system.
Keeping “Black Mirror” in mind, can you see any potential drawbacks about this technology that people should think more deeply about?
So, I am struggling to come up with any drawbacks to this technology. There will be an impact within the HVAC manufacturing community as some overly complex HVAC designs will be displaced, but new jobs will be created to build HEDS units at scale. Equipment manufacturing or assembly plants can be built in developing nations, creating jobs.
There will be reductions in healthcare costs, sick days, maintenance and equipment replacement. Until AI becomes sentient and starts messing with the air-conditioning systems, I think we are all pretty safe from any downsides!
Was there a “tipping point” that led you to this breakthrough? Can you tell us that story?
There was a definite tipping point that led to this breakthrough! I have been a subject matter expert for the US Army Corps of Engineers and the Navy since the early 1990s, and around 2005 the Army Corps asked me to join some teams and go out and do energy audits on military bases around the USA.
What I found at many locations was very heartbreaking. You have seen this problem brought up in Congressional hearings, where there are significant mold growth and biological problems in facilities where our Armed Forces live and work. During my travels, I witnessed this firsthand, and I investigated the different methods that the Public Works departments were using to combat the problem.
Make no mistake, the people on the bases all the way up to the top brass hate the fact that biological growth occurs, and they do everything possible within their means to try to fight it. Unfortunately, many air-conditioning systems were not designed to control relative humidity, which is the cause of much of the biological growth problem. When an installed HVAC system is trying to grow mold, there is not a lot that can be done, unless changes are made, and changes are not free.
Energy codes have gotten stricter over time, and this has led engineers to design some very complex systems that cannot be maintained by the operating staff on the bases. There are just too few people trying to work on too much equipment that is too hard to maintain.
At every base I went to I talked to the operating staff about these problems and my questions were always the same: “what have you tried?”, “how has it worked?”, “what has caused the failure to continue?”.
They really tried everything that was available at the time. When the Army Corps asked me if I could help solve the problem, my first response to them was “no, I can’t solve this problem, there is no equipment out there that is available that actually does the job and can be maintained by the limited staff and limited funding that is available on DoD bases.”
It made me very angry that the problem could not be solved. On another base, we ran into barracks that had significant biological growth issues and again I was asked to come up with a system that was simple, reliable and maintainable and that would control relative humidity in a wide variety of environments with little to no maintenance required.
In my anger, I caved in and said “yes, I will come up with a solution.‘
Right after I said yes, I smacked myself in the head asking myself “what were you thinking when you said yes!? This problem seems unsolvable! Everything has been tried, thousands of engineers have worked on this to no avail!”
So, then I had to get back to the basics what causes the problem, what do I need to do to solve the problem and how can I solve the problem in the simplest manner possible.
Thankfully, God has put me in many very problematic buildings and I have been able to come up with solutions that work, and I was able to draw on that experience to develop what we call today the High Efficiency Dehumidification System or HEDS.
The DoD, DoE and California Energy Commission have been very supportive of the technology, funding or co-funding technology demonstration projects and helping with the technology transfer process.
What do you need to lead this technology to widespread adoption?
Outreach to those that can influence where ESG funds are spent, getting the attention of those that write energy and healthcare codes, getting licensing agreements set up with a few of the major global HVAC equipment manufacturers, getting Congress to allocate infrastructure and climate change funds for HEDS technology to replace the failed/failing HVAC systems at DoD installations, and other Federal facilities, this would be a huge long term win, because the HEDS technology saves a ton of energy and reduces maintenance needs and overall lifecycle costs, so it is an investment that provides a financial return, so the burden going forward is diminished for the next generations.
What have you been doing to publicize this idea? Have you been using any innovative marketing strategies?
To publicize the idea, we have been entering technology competitions with the Department of Defense, Department of Energy, the General Services Administration, the California Energy Commission, and the USAF AFWERX program. HEDS has been winning these competitions and projects are being implemented because of these wins.
We have worked with and are working with the US Army, the US Navy, the US Air Force, the National Renewable Energy Lab (NREL), the Electric Power Research Institute, (EPRI), UC San Diego Health Thornton hospital and even the Timken Museum of Art in Balboa Park, San Diego.
We also have projects in progress with several utilities using the Utility Energy Services Contract (UESC) method of Public Private Partnership financing for projects.
Admittedly we have focused the vast majority of our time on helping the military better protect our Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, and Marines because that is what triggered the technology — I simply cannot tolerate the fact that HVAC systems being designed in the past and even being designed and installed today are overly energy intensive and complicated and are carbon heavy for the summer dehumidification season as well as the winter heating season.
The healthcare sector seems to be really chasing the HEDS technology right now. As described earlier, there are a lot of HVAC-caused problems in healthcare that the HEDS technology addresses, and more hospital systems are learning about HEDS.
99% of the hospital folks we have talked with are in the process of evaluating or developing HEDS based projects.
None of us are able to achieve success without some help along the way. Is there a particular person who you are grateful towards who helped get you to where you are? Can you share a story about that?
Wow, that is a big question! I have needed so much help along the way, there is no one person that has been able to get me to where I need to go, it has taken a big team of people to help me out!
I am thankful that God gave me a very inquisitive brain, that keeps digging until I find answers that make sense, I am thankful for my mom and dad that worked with me for 20+ years creating some of the most energy efficient and comfortable buildings in the world. I’m thankful to Al Perez and Craig Hofferber for being my mentors when I was a young man, and throughout my career. They taught me so much about how systems work and how they are supposed to work. Most recently I’m thankful for Craig Hale, Jeff Kuhl, Galina Kalika and Chris Roman who have the strongest faith in the technology and that who are helping create a market for it.
I’m also thankful for the DoD and DoE teams that have evaluated the technology and found it to be worthy of widespread adoption. They have been especially helpful, as their influence carries significant weight around the globe.
Lastly, I’m thankful for Mary Kersey, my friend of 30+ years and my office manager for over a decade, she keeps the wheels on the road and deals with everything I can’t deal with!
How have you used your success to bring goodness to the world?
We are trying to help as many people as possible live better, healthier lives via the HEDS technology and cleaner air.
The end game goal, when the company is sold, is to create a foundation that helps disadvantaged kids and kids of military families get better educations, as education is the key to generational change.
What are your “5 Things I Wish Someone Told Me Before I Started” and why.
If you are truly passionate about helping others, people can sense that, and they will come alongside you to try to help, to the extent of their abilities.
I literally get angry when I talk about the failed HVAC systems and how that affects our Troops and their families. Most people see that I am doing something about it and want to help stop that problem going forward.
Pay more attention in your English/writing classes in high school and college!
Clear communications are the key to widespread success. You could have the best widget in the world, but if you write like an engineer (like me), it will take a lot longer to succeed.
Learn how to write so your audience will understand what you are saying.
If you have very creative solutions that are worthy of a patent, and there is a market for the patented technology, you should consider going after it (see response below)
Getting patents can be incredibly expensive and time consuming!
Be sure you have the funds to carry you through the process! The first patent took four years and tons of cash. I think we are around 10 patents in now with a bunch more on the way. Each patent comes with its own set of expenses and timelines.
Engineers can be really stubborn and locked into the “we can’t try that because we’ve always done it a different way” mentality.
Most engineers are excited about the simplicity and effectiveness of HEDS, calling it “an elegant solution”, others don’t believe that the Laws of Thermodynamics can work to your benefit sometimes.
No many how many facts are placed in front of them, they will not change their direction.
The good does outweigh the stubborn, but is it still sad to see people locked into the past, especially engineers.
You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. 🙂
Figure out how to improve the education process and recreate the “shop” classes that teach people trades, starting in high school, or even earlier. The future belongs to skilled workers, whether they be mechanics, plumbers, electricians, HVAC technicians, engineers or programmers.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
Not so much a quote as real life actions being a life lesson. Growing up, my parents sacrificed a lot financially so that my brother and sister and I could have a great life. That selflessness, putting others before oneself, has stuck with me my entire life.
Some very well-known VCs read this column. If you had 60 seconds to make a pitch to a VC, what would you say? He or she might just see this if we tag them 🙂
You can help us save the world and save a lot of lives along the way. There are not many technologies that can help stop climate change, decarbonize and electrify buildings, purify air, save energy, stop HVAC caused spread of viral and biological pathogens, reduce airborne transmission of infectious diseases that cause Healthcare Associated Infections (HAIs) while improving worker productivity, health and happiness.
The annual market for HVAC systems is expected to be close to $250 billion by 2025, and specialty HVAC systems like HEDS should be $20 billion and growing. The technology is protected by a bunch of patents and can be licensed for manufacture by pretty much every HVAC equipment manufacturer around.
There is no need for investments in factories, the factories are already built all around the world — HEDS can be built on their standard production lines — no need for any changes, other than to train their sales teams and update their equipment selection software. HEDS is an IP play, with no major capital expenditures in bricks and mortar required. Manufacturers may want to build factories in the countries where sales will be spiking, but that is not a prerequisite for success.
This is where my engineering single-mindedness is a huge drawback! I am only on LinkedIn, and I really don’t publish much!
Thank you so much for joining us. This was very inspirational.
Thanks for reaching out, I appreciate the opportunity to get the word out on the High Efficiency Dehumidification System technology, and the benefits it can bring to mankind!
Meet The Disruptors: Leslie Dotson Of Swiss Precision On The Five Things You Need To Shake Up Your Industry
An Interview With Fotis Georgiadis
Desire. Always do something that you desire in the heart that makes you feel like you are giving back to humanity. That leaves a footprint of responsibility, duty, and honor to humanity. I only like to do things that will make me a better person or allow humanity to evolve. The desire drives me and fuels me to be the best of the best.
As a part of our series about business leaders who are shaking things up in their industry, I had the pleasure of interviewing Leslie Dotson.
Leslie Dotson is co-founder and CEO of Swiss Precision, an Eco HealthTech apparel brand for the medical scrub, uniform, and accessories market. He is a designer and innovator with almost 30 years of experience and an award-winning product designer. He has invented or developed over 500+ products and won the Good Design Award in 2007 and 2008 for the SwissGear Mouse design and the Editor’s Choice award for the ChillCase in 2010.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we dig in, our readers would like to get to know you a bit more. Can you tell us a bit about your “backstory”? What led you to this particular career path?
I’m a father and a grandfather. My daughter is in the top 40 in the industry for marketing, which she does for Mattel, Inc., running the Disney toy line for Target. I couldn’t be more proud of her.
As for me, my backstory is all about developing products and services for humanity by understanding what people’s pain points are, then providing a solution. That allows them to have the best customer experience they possibly can. I believe that to be the best inventor, I have to be the best humanitarian so that I can understand people’s lives and help them become peaceful and tranquil. I always think of this in the design. How can this make somebody’s life better? How can this take the pain point away?
I found my career path in an interesting way. I used to work in the marketing department for Seiko watches, and one day I was to approve the golden samples from our artists. They were from Taiwan and were in an exclusive area of the factory that I had access to. I was 23, and it was the first time in my life that I had seen such complex artistry. I was fascinated by the discipline among these people making Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck watches by hand. It gave me the bug to understand how it all worked — how marketing worked, how production worked.
The company decided to move to the East Coast from California, and I didn’t want to live 3,000 miles away from my family. Luckily, they had an opportunity with a sister company, so I went for an interview. There were 600 other people in line for that job, with only 10 openings. I was one of the 10 who got it, and they told us that out of 600 people they interviewed, we had one unique trait: the ability to see a situation and find the solution. They said that less than one percent of the people in the world have that sort of vision. They wanted to take us into a new organization called Epson Direct and start this new entity, and that’s how I got into the IT and consumer electronics business. I saw the first laptop. I saw how networking was structured years before Compaq and Dell and Gateway had even formed. It was a fascinating journey, and if I hadn’t seen those Taiwanese artists making watches, I might never have found this career path.
Can you tell our readers what it is about the work you’re doing that’s disruptive?
Swiss Precision was founded in 2010. At that time, I vowed to give back to humanity and only create sustainable products that allow people to be healthy in their minds, bodies, and souls. The work I’m doing now is disruptive because it’s affecting the $94 billion medical scrub and uniform industry, the $70 billion sports market, and the approximately $80 billion leisure market. Many in those industries use synthetic, man-made materials because they’re cheaper and easier to produce. That allows them to manufacture things quickly, but as we’re all starting to learn, those materials aren’t beneficial. That’s why you’re starting to see people return to cotton, bamboo linens, and other organic materials that are breathable, good for the environment, and good for the human body.
Swiss Precision’s formulation of copper, cotton, or any other organic material combine at the DNA level of the yarn strand. It’s not a spray-on or an infused process that goes on top of polyester or any other synthetic material — it’s formulated at the molecular structure of the yarn thread itself, so it can’t be washed off or degraded. It’s blended in with organic cotton and bamboo, certified organic materials. That’s disruptive because giving a protective bond to the apparel and the human body represents a significant break from how many of these other companies make their products.
Copper has been known for thousands of years as a metal that protects the human body from bacteria, fungus, viruses, and other harmful microorganisms. Copper is used in jewelry, and it’s already used in the pipes in our houses because it does not degrade like galvanized steel or zinc. It’s also used in electronics because its conduction is very clean. We even have copper inside of us as we’re born, so the copper compound that’s inside the human body is God-given.
Using these organic materials will disrupt the reliance on synthetic and toxic materials, which are unsuitable for the planet. It will also disrupt large consumer markets because people are more conscious of harmful toxins, bacteria, and viruses — especially nurses, doctors, dentists, medical assistants, and other frontline workers. No one has made apparel yet with the structure to fight disease. We’ve tested with the number one testing company in the world, SGS, and they found that when these deadly hospital-acquired bacteria are exposed to this material, they die in 24 to 48 hours, even after 40 washes. That is very disruptive to the synthetic market, which doesn’t have these properties. Bacteria and fungi use these synthetic materials as a living space, so eliminating them will help suppress the transmission of these pathogens from one place to another. We believe testing will show that the Covid-19 virus cannot live on copper apparel, so having it in the clothing will be highly disruptive to the market.
Can you share a story about the funniest mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?
The funniest mistake I made came from not fully understanding the culture in the country where I was working. I was in Colombia because I wanted to offset some of the manufacturing from China and diversify the supply chain. I was like, “Great. Manufacturing in Latin America is going to be awesome.” It’s closer to the United States, the tariffs are very small or nonexistent, and the freight cost is much lower. I wanted to motivate the workers based on my perspective from working in China, and I made the worst mistake possible. I told these Colombian workers that I was proud of them and that one day, they could be better at production than the Chinese.
It turned out that I had insulted the workers by saying this because they didn’t want to be like the Chinese. They wanted to be like Colombians. Colombian people love to talk, and they love to interact. They love to be on cell phones, texting and chatting while they’re on the production line. In China, that would never happen, but that’s not the culture of the Colombian worker. Colombian workers love to communicate and flow with each other, and for me to come in and say that they want to be like the Chinese was an insult.
I paid the price for that mistake. Some people left and said they were very disappointed by my words, so I had to apologize. I provided them with lunch and a bus from their homes to the factory and back, so they wouldn’t have to take public transportation. These are tiny things that you learn in a particular culture. To them, lunch and a bus ride were more important than an extra $10. They were grateful for the lunch and the bus, but they definitely, definitely didn’t like being compared to another culture. So what I learned from my funniest mistake was that you need to understand the culture when you’re going to another place, whether it’s business or pleasure. Not doing that will cause many problems that will take time, money, and goodwill to undo.
We all need a little help along the journey. Who have been some of your mentors? Can you share a story about how they made an impact?
I’ve had some great mentors over the years, but three stand out as the ones who caused a shift in my career. The first is Francine Farkas Sears, the second is Scott Bercu, and the third is Keith Braesch. Francine is a business veteran; her history shows she was always a real trailblazer. She was the only woman out of 26 people who were the first to go back to China in 1972, one of the first women on Wall Street, and a disruptor in the apparel retail business with Alexander’s department stores. She understood how to be a businesswoman in the 1980s and 1990s when it was a man’s world, and she still made the time to be a wonderful mother.
Scott Bercu is a forensic accountant who understands how to look at numbers and see what no one else can see. He also understands the projections and futures of a company, what makes it strong, what makes it weak, and how to identify the weakness and turn it into a strength. He was also very even-tempered and able to flow with the company owners and explain what was wrong, how to fix it and when, with absolute precision. I learned these methods of finance and structure from the best of the best.
Keith Braesch is an unbelievable business analyst. His calculations and business proposals are the best of the best. His guidance on structuring a business has been invaluable to me. He’s also just a very good friend. I can talk to him about any situation under the sun, and he always offers perfect input. I respect everything he says because he has the experience, knowledge, education, and family to back it up. In fact, I’ve known his wife since I was five years old. We were born to be partners, business associates, and friends, so I’m honored that he is one of my mentors.
Francine Farkas Sears has affected me to be a leader. I learned from her the value of showing results and standing up for what’s right for everyone. She showed me how to step back and see the whole picture before acting. It doesn’t matter if it’s 24, 48, or 72 hours — stall that decision until you have a complete perspective, then move into action, knowing that you have analyzed all the scenarios. The decisions I made from a calm, dispassionate place after weighing all the evidence have usually been correct.
My mentors greatly impacted me in terms of financial intelligence, business structure, and upper management dealings. Peace and tranquility have always been important as well as having a good work-life balance as I’ve gotten older. I thank these mentors for the experience and knowledge they passed on to me, and my ears were wide open to listen to their experiences and respect and honor them. This was the impact that they had on my life.
In today’s parlance, being disruptive is usually a positive adjective. But is disrupting always good? When do we say the converse, that a system or structure has ‘withstood the test of time’? Can you articulate to our readers when disrupting an industry is positive, and when disrupting an industry is ‘not so positive’? Can you share some examples of what you mean?
I think being disruptive is a positive. It brings change, it brings newness of thinking, and it carries humanity to the next level. It allows us to be free and prosperous and expand our technologies and way of life. Being disruptive changes the mold of the times, and the times change based on new information or opportunities. So, we must push past the dug-in processes or the “This is the way we’ve always done it” mentality. That allows us to move into a “This is a better way to do it” mentality. We use that voice in a disruptive way to make change. In my over 30 years of working in the IT and consumer electronics industries, I’ve seen how diversity can change systems or structures for the better. The change in IT from the 1980s to the 2020s has been remarkable. The change in the structures, the change in the speed, the change in social media, the impact of the internet, and how people are now relying 100% on phones — those structures from the past had to change to allow us to be more advanced in our communication and share information instantaneously. Things from the past that we thought would stand the test of time have changed because of new technologies, new thinking, and human evolution.
When you’re positively disrupting an industry, you see that it’s best for humanity based on their health and on the structure they live in. It’s giving back in a positive way that helps people be more efficient, more effective, or more healthy. On the other hand, you can tell that you’re disrupting an industry negatively when you’re putting toxins back in, when you’re allowing people to be suppressed and unhealthy in the mind, body, or soul. It’s when you purposely disrupt the flow of a system and structure to control and manipulate others. This is the difference between positive disruption and negative disruption.
Can you share five of the best words of advice you’ve gotten along your journey? Please give a story or example for each.
1. Patience. The advice that I’ve gotten over and over in my career is to have patience in the decisions you’re going to make because that decision can adversely affect the outcome of what you want to do. My mentors instilled a rule in me: don’t make critical decisions based on anger or expediency, but wait 24 hours, 48 hours, 72 hours, and think about it the whole time. A week’s patience is the key. It’s the virtue of the outcome.
2. Innovate. God has given me a gift: my will to see a solution in my dreams and then wake up and execute it from the business plan to the ideation and manufacturing. “Always innovate to the next level” has been my advice to myself. Don’t settle for mediocre. Don’t settle for so-so. Look at the design, look at the innovation, and provide the best experience for the consumer.
3. Desire. Always do something that you desire in the heart that makes you feel like you are giving back to humanity. That leaves a footprint of responsibility, duty, and honor to humanity. I only like to do things that will make me a better person or allow humanity to evolve. The desire drives me and fuels me to be the best of the best.
4. Communicate. Communication is the key to everything in tantra. The third chakra is the throat chakra, the voice. It allows you to open up and speak about the existence of the idea, the technology, or the solution that will enable humanity to be better. Clear communication in all aspects of life is essential through voice, intimacy, touch, seeing, and hearing. The movement of communication has been controversial because today, you have 15 seconds to communicate to the consumer. It’s essential to be able to communicate precisely what you want. So, get to the point and let people understand what you want.
5. Love. We are all as one, we are all part of one existence of energy, and the energy of what we were born into is love. If you are a business person, leader, or CEO, people look up to you based on your words, presence, and leadership skills. If you’re doing it right, you’ll hear them say, “I love that CEO. I love the way he thinks, and I love the way he takes care of his people. I love the way he invented something that cured someone.” It’s always about love. So as a CEO, businessperson, and leader, always control your company with love, and you will be successful.
We are sure you aren’t done. How are you going to shake things up next?
We’ll start with the medical scrub and uniform industry, a $94 billion market. Next, we’ll go after the sports market, because today it uses many synthetic, man-made materials. The clothes have great marketing tags all over them, but if you look at the molecular structure of the synthetic materials, they’re toxic. Consumers are not necessarily aware of that because the marketing messaging overshadows the effect on the body. Next, we’ll make a side-by-side comparison with data and testing to show what synthetic material does to the human body, as opposed to organic material, based on microorganisms that can affect it or how it interacts with the body’s function through different activities. I cannot wait to have a marketing campaign depicting a yoga class in a beautiful studio, with everyone sitting in yoga positions with plastic bags on their bodies. Next to that page would be our material, which has flowers and trees and beautiful plants around it, to highlight the organic materials that came from the earth. This will shake up this multi-billion-dollar industry that we’re seeing today.
Do you have a book, podcast, or talk that’s had a deep impact on your thinking? Can you share a story with us? Can you explain why it was so resonant with you?
The best book I’ve ever read was Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill. It profoundly impacted my thinking, and it’s an outstanding blueprint for any businessperson who wants to be in leadership. It talks about more than 100 of the most successful people in the world from the past and how they all had these 13 to 17 different principles that allowed them to be successful. It goes chapter by chapter to enable you to think deeply about how people should interact with their inventions, how they should interact with the people they do business with, and how they should collaborate and gain information and data to make the best decision for the product or service. Interestingly, the DNA characteristics of these successful entrepreneurs are all the same. You can learn from them how to make decisions based on experience, knowledge, data, and your gut telling you what’s right and wrong. It teaches the reader to have no fear and cross the finish line no matter what obstacles might be there. Some of these inventors were considered crazy, and some people wanted to haul them away from their families in straitjackets. It was a good thing that didn’t happen because these inventors went on to create the light bulb and the automobile, among other things. Without those breakthroughs, we would not have the things we have today. We would still be in the dark. Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill profoundly affected my thinking and gave me a blueprint to follow for my thoughts and desires and examples of why that blueprint works. Every person who wants to do business needs to read it.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
Don’t celebrate early. Wait until the task is truly finished. This is a life lesson quote that I live by. It’s a mantra for me. I have always found that early celebration can be disruptive to the outcome of a goal because it distracts people from seeing what is truly there. Those unknowns, those gotchas, those “Uh oh, what just happened?” moments usually show up in the last 10% of completing a task, the home stretch. It’s generally because you celebrated too early and took your eye off the prize. You thought you already had it, which is not the time to celebrate. The time to celebrate is when it’s boxed up with a nice bow at the top and shipped off, you’ve already done your war room analysis, you’ve had feedback from everyone involved in the situation, and you have data to show that it is successful. That’s the time to celebrate. So celebrating too early can make you lose sight of what is happening and how you need to fix it. It’s something that I learned the hard way by celebrating too early, but it’s also something that I learned to remain steadfast about. People ask me, “Les, why aren’t you happy about this outcome?” I usually tell them, “Because it’s not finished. Some things still need to happen, and it’s not the time to celebrate.” Give it some time, be patient, listen to the results, listen to the feedback, and then once we hear all of the input over a particular amount of time, then and only then are we going to celebrate.
You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. 🙂
I want humanity to get back to using organic products and services. It’s already started, but I think it needs to move faster. People are starting to go from farm to table. People are wearing or using organic products, services, or medicines, which will eventually get us back to nature, and allow us to be healthy and whole and peaceful. It will enable the earth to heal itself because we will not be polluting it with synthetic or toxic products. I’m hoping that I will be able to bring this as a movement for the good of humanity and allow our children’s children to be here in peace, joy, and health. I’ve always said that the movement of small ideas can trigger change. If you look around you, you’ll see that it’s not these super complex technologies that move or change people. It’s usually the very, very small inventions that make people say, “Wow, that’s so simple. I wish I would’ve thought of that.” There are many examples of this, like Q-Tips and Post-it Notes, little ideas that helped people and changed how they use things or communicate. It’s exciting that an idea can trigger a movement like that.
Start from a place of love, respect for the person or work or thing for which the feedback is being given.
As a part of our series about “How To Give Honest Feedback without Being Hurtful”, I had the pleasure of interviewing Kristina Paider.
As a Hollywood screenwriter, giving and receiving superb feedback can mean the difference between a hit show and a shit show. There is a way to give feedback that acknowledges the good, and opens the receiver’s capacity to hear the notes in a constructive way, and Kristina Paider has been living and breathing the feedback loop for decades. Kristina has worked in board rooms, living rooms, and Hollywood writers’ rooms with 600+ writers in 34 countries as a writing collaborator, coach, editor.
Thank you so much for joining us! Our readers would love to “get to know you” a bit better. Can you tell us a bit about your ‘backstory’ and how you got started?
It’s great to be here! I started my career in TV journalism at an NBC affiliate. I quickly realized it wasn’t for me and pivoted to advertising, then marketing and PR. At age 27, a headhunter I worked with was convinced I should write movies. So, in a friendly way, she stalked me until I agreed to sign up for a class. Then I began moonlighting as a marketing executive for hotel companies by day and a screenwriter by night.
What do you think makes your company stand out? Can you share a story?
What makes The Hollywood Approach stand out is the intersection of neuroscience, goal-getting and play through movies examples. I help people live and tell their best story.
When my first assistant was getting the beta version of my masterclass up and running, I invited her to participate in the exercises. She had never owned her own home, and tried out the principles I taught on this “wild and crazy, out there, idea.” Not long after, she bought her forever home with a gorgeous garden, yard and spacious rooms and office. It’s truly magnificent. She is so dear to me, and I didn’t even know she was doing the work, so when I learned of it, I was as excited as if it was happening to me!
I love helping people see and access their own potential to get what they want. I got to visit Laura’s magnificent home last summer on a road trip. It was amazing to witness it and her success — her leap — in person.
Can you share the most interesting story that happened to you since you started your career?
It’s hard to pick one. But in 2021, as I was preparing to launch my book, which is always hectic, I received a message asking me to audition for a JLo movie filming near my home. In my gazillion tasks each day, I had forgotten that the audition included singing. Yikes! I’m not a singer, and I was on limited time, so I just did it. And I was offered the part! Unfortunately, I couldn’t accept, because of timing. But it was a red-flashing-light reminder that literally anything can happen at any moment.
Can you share a story about the funniest mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?
At age 23, having just moved from Milwaukee to Phoenix, I had the chance to write a feature for Tribune Newspapers on women and success. I wrote, edited, refined, and edited some more until I thought it was perfect, and then turned it in. When the business editor returned it to me non-chalantly, marked up in red, I was floored. It really freaked me out. I was devastated. I felt like I did everything wrong. I didn’t want to write after that.
Of course, years later I realized that was just the law of the jungle. I had not experienced the power of collaboration or the idea that the team was there to make each other’s work stronger. I felt criticized. I didn’t know feedback was a “thing.” I didn’t know what I didn’t know.
It wasn’t until a few years later in film school that I learned that not only that’s how things worked, but as a screenwriter, the feedback process was crucial to not blowing a chance at a six- or seven-figure sale if you made it up to bat. Feedback is needed to do your best work — for the good of the story.
Understanding what good feedback can do for the story, and for me as a writer was transformational. I learned to be more objective about my own work and how to tell a better story. But I’ve never forgotten that first red mark-up, and I take much care to manage client expectations of the editing and coaching process, and present notes and feedback in a very specific way because of it.
What advice would you give to other CEOs and business leaders to help their employees to thrive and avoid burnout?
Take breaks and engage if flow activities. Figure out what self-care is to you and practice it. Focus on communication. Being heard and validated goes a long way in tense times.
How do you define “Leadership”? Can you explain what you mean or give an example?
To me, leadership is about setting the tone, being the example, and driving the boat.
In my work, I often talk about how to release and relieve stress. As a busy leader, what do you do to prepare your mind and body before a stressful or high stakes meeting, talk, or decision? Can you share a story or some examples?
When possible — and let’s be honest, during times of stress, it’s not always possible — I try to be strategic and have a purposeful approach. I do try to think through my desired outcome and how I can set myself and my team up for success as well as feeling good throughout the process. That may mean scheduling more hands on deck, or more downtime, or simply extra time in the schedule so there are no crunches.
For talks, I try to find time to do morning pages, meditate and be still. Same thing for big decisions.
Ok, let’s jump to the core of our interview. Can you briefly tell our readers about your experience with managing a team and giving feedback?
Sure. As the senior vice president of marketing and research for a $15 billion hotel real estate team, I gave and received feedback to my team formally twice a year and with every research paper and written piece we put out. It’s not a one and done. It’s circular and ongoing, both on performance and on written work. It’s a collaboration, not a dissertation or a monologue.
For Hollywood screenwriters, feedback on each other’s scripts is the life force of elevating the work. Feedback is a regular part of a screenwriter’s existence.
This might seem intuitive but it will be constructive to spell it out. Can you share with us a few reasons why giving honest and direct feedback is essential to being an effective leader?
Giving honest and direct — and I would also add: kind — feedback is essential to being an effective leader because communication makes or breaks an individual, a team, and therefore a company. With great communication, so much more potential is realized in every relationship and endeavor.
Angeles Arrien, the cultural anthropologist who specialized in transpersonal psychology and the wisdom of Indigenous people, had a unique take on it. In her work Gathering Medicine (The Warrior), Angeles talks about the collaborative nature of feedback and how in indigenous cultures, to “not to be able to come up with at least 10 creative solutions is below standard. And for most of us, three creative solutions is quite a stretch.”
Angeles says, “Shape shifting, or shifting the shape of our experience, really the invitation to leadership in the 21st century. We’re being asked to move out of description into prescription. Out of chronically describing what’s not working and moving into creative problem solving. To move out of reactivity into creativity.”
She describes her experience listening to an economic summit where a Navajo elder spoke. He began by acknowledging and giving gratitude for the opportunity to speak, and acknowledging all who gathered for the economic summit.
According to Angeles, the elder followed by describing what was working on the reservations. Then, then he shared what was not working on the reservations. Finally, he concluded by saying, “and I regret that I only have three creative solutions to offer.”
She thought this to be a wonderful standard for leadership — to begin with acknowledgement and gratitude. To state what is working first. To address what is not working. And to offer at least three creative solutions.”
Her work has always stuck with me, and guided me.
One of the trickiest parts of managing a team is giving honest feedback, in a way that doesn’t come across as too harsh. Can you please share with us five suggestions about how to best give constructive criticism to a remote employee? Kindly share a story or example for each.
Start from a place of love, respect for the person or work or thing for which the feedback is being given.
Start with the good, especially if the feedback is unsolicited. Starting with what’s working puts the receiver at ease and gives them something to build on.
[Mention the “big picture” goal] “I know you want to pitch this story to Miramax, and I want to help you put your best foot forward. [let the receiver opt in] “May I share some thoughts? / Are you open to me sharing some thought on how to make it even better?” This aligns your feedback with their goal, and lets them know you’re on board with helping them achieve their goal.
Own your feedback. For me, the character seems incongruent.
[give more detail] when she says things such as sexual innuendos, aggressive cursing, and uncouth language, she comes across as incongruent with someone who wants to [bring it back to the big picture goal] run a church.
[offer a solution] “it seems the phrasing, gee whiz, Wally, might be more in line than “F&CJS this $#IT!’”
[close with a positive] — I think there’s a lot of potential, and I hope to take my whole family to see it on the big screen.
[if a particularly sensitive situation, repeat encouragement] — I hope this is helpful in you making a successful play for Miramax.
I think we want to strive for feedback expanding the conversation and the relationship. It’s about so much more than the notes. It’s about honesty, building trust, vulnerability, and providing validation and support.
Ultimately, the receiver has responsibility, as well, especially if they’ve requested feedback. They must be in an open position to receive it gracefully. And not everyone will. But 9 times out of 10, when feedback is requested, and given in a way that honors the person or the work, it will be gracefully received.
Can you address how to give constructive feedback over email? If someone is in front of you much of the nuance can be picked up in facial expressions and body language. But not when someone is remote. How do you prevent the email from sounding too critical or harsh?
I would suggest allowing ample time to craft the feedback in writing, following the guidelines above.
Including the content of the big picture goal, starting with the positive, letting the person know you’re on their team, owning your perspective, giving potential solutions and closing on a positive, is universal guidance.
It may sound long, but honoring relationships and mentorship is important. When you endeavor to make people feel like you care and you are on their team, they remember that. If you rush and miss some steps, that quality of care may suffer, and ultimately the message may be incomplete, and the relationship or the company may pay the price.
In your experience, is there a best time to give feedback or critique? Should it be immediately after an incident? Should it be at a different time? Should it be at set intervals? Can you explain what you mean?
The optimal time to give feedback is when the recipient is ready to receive it. If it’s not at planned intervals where the receiver is expecting it, it may be good to set the expectation and maybe schedule a “feedback meeting,” so the receiver isn’t taken off guard. At a very minimum, seek the recipient’s buy in before launching into any notes.
With clients, I may say something like, “Rose, I know you wanted to have this proposal ready for a publisher this month. I see some opportunities in this current draft to help you move it in that direction. Would you like to set up a time to discuss my notes?”
With employees, if the feedback is more corrective in nature, I might say something like, “Jeff, I’d like to discuss how the recent Wall Street Journal interview went. When would be a good time for you?”
How would you define what it is to “be a great boss”?
I think being a great boss is about finding the balance of providing roots and wings. Giving an employee enough latitude to experiment and try their own solutions, and enough access to provide constructive guidance to nurture their process and outcomes.
You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. 🙂
It would be a movement of love + gratitude, which are scientifically proven to wipe out fear, anger and self-doubt, the way light cancels out darkness.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
My grandmother often said “give ‘er” as a way to say go for it: to play the hand or take the risk. Usually in cards, but also in life situations. It was such a fun thing to say, and I can still hear her say it. It’s an example of so many times when you have the choice to go for it or not — to say yes and go for it.
How can our readers further follow your work online?
Brendan Kotze On Five Things You Need To Create A Highly Successful Career In The Cybersecurity Industry
An Interview With Fotis Georgiadis
Above all, passion and curiosity are underlying necessities for success within the industry.
As a part of our series about “How To Give Honest Feedback without Being Hurtful”, I had the pleasure of interviewing Brendan Kotze.
Brendan is a highly accomplished security professional with extensive experience in the space. He is the CEO of Encore, a cybersecutiy platform that visualises information that can be confusing and often overwhelming, providing accurate and action-based reporting and visibility across numerous security controls, through one secure portal.
Thank you so much for joining us! Our readers would love to “get to know you” a bit better. Can you tell us a bit about your backstory and how you grew up? (Inspiring book & funny mistake)
I was born and raised in a small town in the Western Cape of South Africa and began my career by working for large telecoms companies in Cape Town. I broke into IT security through my work at NGS, where I was employed as Service Delivery Manager alongside providing Data Loss Prevention solutions at a global scale. This was my first foray into the world of cybersecurity, and I became deeply passionate about making people and companies safe. As NGS expanded into more security domains, so did I. Following this experience and seeing the huge demand for quality providers, I co-founded Performanta alongside my long-standing partners Guy, Lior and Attie.
My move into cybersecurity was inspired by a multitude of experiences. Coming from a fundamental network security base, moving into cybersecurity was a natural progression, as I was already working in Data Loss Prevention. At a more personal level, my passion for security only grew as I came across it in different mediums, including the short story by Isaac Asimov, ‘Let’s Get Together’. This is a Cold War-based spy story, focused on how the Russians created robots to look like US citizens, and the Americans must find a way to keep up with and combat this technology. Also, the movie ‘Hackers’ came out when I was young, which further sparked my interest in the field as it just seemed so “cool.”
A funny mistake I made when starting out in security centred around the concept of ‘Beta’ versions. When vendors release software for testing, they call it a ‘Beta’ version. In my youth I thought this meant a ‘better’ version — so I ended up deploying a ‘Beta’ version into a production environment. There is no substitute for experience, I guess.
Are you working on any exciting new projects now? How do you think that will help people?
Through Encore, I hope to help organisations understand and identify gaps within their security, speeding up reporting of attacks and increasing collaboration between teams. By integrating a company’s entire security stack into one simple interface, Encore provides a clear insight into security information and risk in real-time. Our goal is to give time back to security professionals to focus on genuine security, not spend hours compiling reports and data.
What are the 3 things in particular that most excite you about the industry? Can you explain or give an example?
For me, security has always been exciting. In terms of the current developments within cyber though, the fact that attacks are becoming a lot more widespread is concerning, but fascinating. These types of attacks are attracting a lot of media attention and are impacting people on an individual level, where historically they predominantly impacted businesses. This change in the scope of cyber attacks brings a lot of new, exciting challenges.
The Ukrainian war as an example is shaping a new age of cybersecurity, one which is directly impacted by personal values, beliefs, and politics. For example, the Ukrainian Cyber Army is a global outreach of hundreds of thousands of people who do not necessarily work in IT security yet are getting behind a political cause. This expansion of the cybersecurity landscape is leading to a new wave of attackers and defenders; the Ukrainian Cyber Army sharing tools and tactics with the wider public is a prime example. If you have a PC at home, you can download a tool they share with you, and your infrastructure can be used to perform denial-of-service attacks.
Skills that are collated over years of genuine experience are being transferred to a much wider audience. This is both exciting and extremely concerning. These skills may not be used for good. Instead, we could unwillingly be putting dangerous and malicious tools into the hands of the public. On the positive side, cybersecurity is becoming more accessible, with more people learning how to defend against dangerous attacks.
What are the 3 things that concern you about the Cybersecurity industry? Can you explain? What can be done to address those concerns?
A big concern of mine in is the significant gender bias within the cybersecurity industry. Social media platforms are overwhelmed with content on how women are consistently treated poorly in the industry, perpetuating the perception that the field exists predominantly for men.
Secondly, there is a tremendous reliance on technology and regulation that does not necessarily support implementing effective security. Compliant does not mean secure. Most industry regulations should be treated as baseline security, implementation and application is what really counts.
Finally, the skills gap and recruitment crisis. The industry is full of skill and passion that is currently sitting on the bench thanks to a common belief that employees must have a degree and certifications to get through the interview stages. Media headlines are being dominated by the growing skills shortage, but the incredibly high gates being put up by organisations are preventing genuine progress. Personally, I would rather hire someone who’s got experience, and has played around with coding and used open-source platforms to learn and grow their skills and be self-taught, rather than someone who has shopped around for certifications.
The conditions for securing an interview are creating huge barriers to entry for the market, all while the industry complains about the widening skills gap. Training programmes should be implemented to develop the sought after skills, and hiring managers should communicate the need for genuine passion and demonstrated experience, not just a list of certifications.
You are looking for a skillset, not a validation that the skillset exists.
Looking ahead to the near future, are there critical threats on the horizon that you think companies need to start preparing for? Can you explain?
At a macro level, I believe that the same threats exist. The only thing that has really changed has been the attack landscape. The ability for an attacker to adapt faster than defenders means that organisations should keep an eye on threat intelligence and ongoing developments from an attack perspective. This has been driven by the surge in cloud adoption and IoT, which means that the problems that we had on-site have now moved to the cloud, and at an individual layer we are allowing IoT into our business and homes.
Similarly, there has become a shared responsibility model, between what the cloud provider does and the business’s own responsibility, which has not yet been defined throughout the organisation. Companies need to return to basics to an extent, rather than jumping feet-first into new technology. The foundations need to be laid, rather than frequently buying new tech which only resolves about 20 percent of problems.
Can you share a story from your experience about a cybersecurity breach that you helped fix or stop? What were the main takeaways from that story?
In my experience of cybersecurity, if there is a gap, it will be found. It may take years to discover and remediate, simply because an attacker’s feedback cycle is very quick, whereas a defender’s feedback cycle is slow. In other words, an attacker knows whether he has got in or not whilst a defender may be oblivious for some time.
Throughout my career, most breaches I’ve come across are caused by the basics being exploited — weak passwords; lack of multi-factor authentication; open ports; critical patching; lack of monitoring traffic out of the organisation, rather than traditional firewall models which block traffic coming in. Once attackers exploit the very basic defences at the perimeter, then comes the internal tactics, which can be very difficult to detect.
This comes back to the attacker model. You have what are called ‘initial access brokers’, who are the people that scan and spray all over the internet, and then sell access to a more advanced group. The chances of being hit, simply due to not having the basics in place, are therefore much higher.
As you know, breaches or hacks can occur even for those who are best prepared, and no one will be aware of it for a while. Are there 3 or 4 signs that a layperson can see or look for that might indicate that something might be amiss?
There are of course signs that any individual can be trained to identify, but ideally organisations should focus their defence efforts earlier in the cycle — by the time a layperson detects an anomaly, it’s already too late.
Companies need to focus on prevention, ensuring all employees working from home have patched devices, and are keeping all accounts secured, including personal ones. It’s becoming more common to see attackers exploiting users’ social media platforms and personal profiles, rather than going through their workplace identity. Adversaries are opting to attack an individual, instead of the whole organisation, to gain access to the network.
After a company is made aware of a data or security breach, what are the most important things they should do to protect themselves further, as well as protect their customers?
Above all, it is vital that a company follows a process that has been agreed beforehand and tested frequently, both within internal business and across the board. The very last thing you want to be thinking about during an attack is who needs to do what, who to get on the phone, and who you can trust in that situation.
Moreover, transparency with customers is key. Organisations often try to keep the news of a breach on the down-low, but they always come to light eventually. Our society has almost become desensitised to cyber breaches, to the point that news of one will not necessarily sway individuals from engaging with a company or using their services. However, companies are more likely to lose people’s trust if they try to hide breaches, as opposed to offering transparency around the risks.
What are the most common data security and cybersecurity mistakes you have seen companies make? What are the essential steps that companies should take to avoid or correct those errors?
First of all, not having a clear picture of what has been deployed and where. You cannot manage what you cannot measure.
Secondly, not trusting internal IT security. Companies hire expensive, external consultants to come in and write a report that tells you exactly what your internal team has been trying to inform you of for years. But because it’s been written on paper with a fancy letterhead, it somehow carries more value than the word of the people stuck in the trenches.
Another mistake is buying tick-in-the-box technology for services, and not investing in solutions that will truly benefit your business. The industry has taken advantage of perhaps ill-informed or regulatory requirements, for example the need to run an annual pen test. A pen test is a skilled adversary, or ethical hacker, who applies intelligence to attack your network and identify gaps in security. A lot of companies are instead trying to run vulnerability scans, which is an automated tool, in place of a pen test. Both are very different approaches and will likely deliver inconsistent results when swapping one out for the other.
My last one is blindly buying into marketing. Don’t get me wrong, there’s some fantastic services and providers out there. However, companies need to ensure that it is fit for purpose and aligns with the overall objective, and not buy it simply because it has AI on the tin, misguided by the belief that it will solve all problems.
What are the “myths” that you would like to dispel about working in the cybersecurity industry? Can you explain what you mean?
To start, it’s not like in the movies! Attackers require a lot of time, effort, and skill to hack a network — not like the Hollywood personas who hack into governing organisations with the click of a button. Another big myth is that attackers only go after large companies, which is not the case at all.
From an industry wide perspective, there’s an assumption that you must be an expert in cybersecurity to make a difference, which links back to the recruitment crisis we discussed earlier. Furthermore, security needs to be a layered defence, which is delivered through trusted parties that actually know what they’re doing — not just a basic piece of tech wrapped up in clever marketing.
Thank you for all of this. Here is the main question of our discussion. What are your “Five Things You Need To Create A Highly Successful Career In The Cybersecurity Industry?
Above all, passion and curiosity are underlying necessities for success within the industry.
Secondly, relationships in your inner circle are as important in tech as they are anywhere else. Having a close network that you can call on, ask questions, and rely on for support is invaluable. When people buy security, they buy trust, and trust comes through positive relationships.
I also recommend not jumping directly into security because it seems ‘sexy’, or because you want to break into and hack things. Have a good understanding of basic IT, right down to operating systems and understanding networking. It sets you up to become a far more well-rounded IT security person.
You must create an understanding of the opposite side. If you’re a defender, you need to understand attackers. If you’re an attacker, you need to understand defenders. Ultimately, you’re on the same team, but realistically, it’s much harder being a defender than it is an attacker.
Be a sponge. You’re not going to immediately land your ideal job, particularly with current HR processes, but it’s important to learn and grow from every experience. This may mean putting your hand up during an incident, or simply asking somebody to give you an hour or two to help better understand their area. The more you know, the more knowledge and information you can leverage down the line.
We are very blessed that very prominent leaders read this column. Is there a person in the world, or in the US with whom you would like to have a private breakfast or lunch, and why? He or she might just see this if we tag them 🙂
Probably Elon Musk, I’d really like to get a deeper insight into how his mind works.
Thank you for these great insights! We really appreciate the time you spent with this.
Love Your Audience. They are not your enemy; they are your friends. Show them you’re there for them and put your ego on the shelf. Make them feel important, make eye contact and engage with them if it’s a small group.
At some point in our lives, many of us will have to give a talk to a large group of people. What does it take to be a highly effective public speaker? How can you improve your public speaking skills? How can you overcome a fear of speaking in public? What does it take to give a very interesting and engaging public talk? In this interview series called “5 Things You Need To Be A Highly Effective Public Speaker” we are talking to successful and effective public speakers to share insights and stories from their experience. As a part of this series, we had the pleasure of interviewing Bill Hansen.
Bill Hansen is a 50-plus year industry veteran who celebrates 42 years of his company Bill Hansen Luxury Catering this August. Over the last four decades, this visionary has hosted four U.S. presidents, championship Super Bowl teams, countless celebrities and athletes. He has catered events for everyone from Pope John Paul II to The Bush family, The Reagan family, Michael Jordan, Usher, Kim Kardashian and the list goes on. Widely recognized as a giant in the catering industry, Mr. Hansen caters, coordinates, trains, teaches, mentors, motivates, manages, and writes. He typically oversees 400events a year with 40 full-time and 200 on-call employees.
Bill Hansen Catering is the exclusive caterer for Villa Woodbine, a historic and award-winning, early 20th century Mediterranean Revival estate in Coconut Grove in high demand for weddings, corporate and social events. His company is a preferred caterer to a collection of 100 unique venues from the Palm Beaches to the Florida Keys. In addition to being an in-demand speaker at catering conferences where he speaks to over 3,000 caterers a show, Bill is frequently engaged as an expert witness for foodservice and hospitality legal disputes and has worked on major cases against Costco and American Airlines.
In 2020, the catering brand merged with Lovables Catering + Kitchen and added a new dimension to Bill Hansen Catering by offering expanded culinary offerings for budget-conscious clientele. Bill Hansen Catering also acquired Eten Catering, a full-service catering and event company to expand the brand’s presence to an even larger market, specifically on large scale yachts in South Florida. Additionally, the brand merged with Alexander Event Catering and Different Look, two leading brands that have served South Florida’s wedding and special events market for more than 15 years, to receive expertise, guidance, and support from Bill Hansen and his team. The partnership brings a new standard of luxury to South Florida events as a whole.
Additionally, Bill Hansen and his team recently launched an opulent extension of the catering brand,Bill Hansen Luxe to tap into the upscale client market to produce star studded events.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Our readers would love to get to know you a bit better. Can you tell us the story of how you grew up?
I grew up in a small town called Holland in New York with more cows than people and one redlight. They called me Honker since I played the trombone quite well. I also loved to make money, so I sold Christmas wreaths, mailing labels, and rose bushes that my dad grew for the holidays. From there I attended Cornell and graduated in 1967. I joined the Navy as an officer and managed Navy clubs and hotels until 1975, when I moved to Miami, where I worked as a food manager for Burdines (now Macy’s.)
Can you share a story with us about what brought you to this specific career path?
In 1980 I started my own catering firm, offering food and service to the rich and famous during events. I had the opportunity to host U. S. Presidents and Pope John Paul II. In 1990 I started teaching Catering Management and began to hone my speaking skills, a passion of mine.
Can you tell us the most interesting story that happened to you since you began your career?
While going the extra mile for a client in desperate need for a venue, I discovered Villa Woodbine, a historical home in Coconut Grove where I’ve catered since 1983 and since then thousands of couples have wed there. Bill Hansen Catering has an exclusive partnership with the venue, and it’s one of the top wedding destinations in South Florida.
Can you share a story about the funniest mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?
There are many mistakes and I like to call them learning experiences and go by the motto, “Every Setback is a SETUP for a COMEBACK.” A funny mistake I can recall was when I was working at Macy’s. A customer had asked for Worcestershire sauce, and she brought him a Booster Chair.
None of us are able to achieve success without some help along the way. Is there a particular person who you are grateful towards who helped get you to where you are? Can you share a story about that?
I had several mentors but Ted White, my former boss in the Navy, supported and encouraged me in my early years. He hired me in 1971 when I was near bankruptcy from a failed consulting business venture and supported me for decades.
You have been blessed with great success in a career path that can be challenging and intimidating. Do you have any words of advice for others who may want to embark on this career path, but seem daunted by the prospect of failure?
At Cornell I cut speech class on the days I was supposed to speak. When I started teaching catering management, I was so nervous that I arrived early and put all my notes on the black board as a reminder of what I was about to say. The only way to overcome your fear of speaking it is to JUST DO IT. Come prepared and remember that FACTS tell but STORIES sell.
What drives you to get up everyday and give your talks? What is the main empowering message that you aim to share with the world?
It’s simple. Do everything with love and kindness, but still mean business. There’s too much hatred and bitterness in the world today. We need to replace it with love and kindness.
You have such impressive work. What are some of the most interesting or exciting projects you are working on now? Where do you see yourself heading from here?
I’m acquiring other catering and hospitality businesses and growing my Bill Hansen Hospitality Group to become the leading concierge service for anyone planning a party, wedding, corporate event, quinceañera or bar mitzvah.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
Nobody cares how much you know until they know how much you care. I care for my team members at all my companies. I’m there to create an amazing culture where they wish to show up every day, engaged and excited. The only way you can do that is to treat your team like family and love them.
Ok, thank you for all that. Here is the main question of our interview. What are your “5 Things You Need To Be A Highly Effective Public Speaker?” Please share a story or example for each.
Do at least 10,000 hours doing what you’re speaking about. It’s easy for me to talk about catering since I’ve catered at least 100,000 parties, weddings, and events in my career. I have the stories to back up my key points.
Love Your Audience. They are not your enemy; they are your friends. Show them you’re there for them and put your ego on the shelf. Make them feel important, make eye contact and engage with them if it’s a small group.
Keep things fun with humorous stories that your audience can relate to. People relate to stories. They don’t want to be spoken at, but to.
Remember that there are three speeches. The one you plan to give, the one you gave, and then the one you wished you had given as you review your talk afterwards. Every time you speak you will discover minor things that you could have said and done in a better way. Continually hone your talk or talks and realize you can always deliver your next speech better than the last one.
Move around and make eye contact with your audience. I do not like standing behind a podium on a stage. I prefer to be on the same level as the audience and walk up and down the aisles to further engagement. I like to arrive long before the audience so I can welcome them as they arrive. It helps me to get over whatever nervousness I have at the time.
As you know, many people are terrified of speaking in public. Can you give some of your advice about how to overcome this fear?
Just do it. Come overly prepared. Remember your bullet points. Use PowerPoint as a reminder of where you are. The more you do it, the better you get. If you’re not nervous before you speak you will deliver a lackluster performance. I like to exercise before I speak to calm the nerves. Robin Williams used to do push-ups before he went on camera.
You are a person of huge influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be?
My current passion is an inner-city faith-based non-profit. Touching Miami with Love which helps kids in Miami’s Overtown who come from poverty and distressed homes see that there’s a future for them in this world.
Is there a person in the world whom you would love to have lunch with, and why? Maybe we can tag them and see what happens!
I would love to have lunch with Bill Gates who I’ve actually catered for in the past but did not have time to talk to. I would ask him for business advice, connections and money to support my nonprofit, Touching Miami with Love.
Are you on social media? How can our readers follow you online?
Dan Gingiss Of The Experience Maker On The 5 Things You Need To Be A Highly Effective Public Speaker
An Interview With Fotis Georgiadis
You need to practice in a way that makes sense to you. For some people, that means scripting out every word and practicing over and over again until it’s just right. For me it means constantly trying new things, knowing what I want to say but not being afraid to say it differently each time, being willing to improvise, and not over-rehearsing lest I start worrying about missing a bullet point.
At some point in our lives, many of us will have to give a talk to a large group of people. What does it take to be a highly effective public speaker? How can you improve your public speaking skills? How can you overcome a fear of speaking in public? What does it take to give a very interesting and engaging public talk? In this interview series called “5 Things You Need To Be A Highly Effective Public Speaker” we are talking to successful and effective public speakers to share insights and stories from their experience. As a part of this series, we had the pleasure of interviewing Dan Gingiss.
Dan Gingiss is an international keynote speaker and customer experience coach who believes that a remarkable customer experience is your best marketing strategy. And he doesn’t just talk about experience; he creates one for the audience every time! His 20-year professional career spanned multiple disciplines including customer experience, marketing, social media and customer service. He held leadership positions at McDonald’s, Discover and Humana.
Dan is the author of The Experience Maker: How To Create Remarkable Experiences That Your Customers Can’t Wait To Share and Winning at Social Customer Care: How Top Brands Create Engaging Experiences on Social Media. He also co-hosts the Experience This! podcast. He earned a B.A. in psychology and communications from the University of Pennsylvania and an M.B.A. in marketing from the Kellogg School of Management at Northwestern University. Dan is also a licensed bartender, a pinball wizard, and he once delivered a pizza to Michael Jordan.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Our readers would love to get to know you a bit better. Can you tell us the story of how you grew up?
I grew up in a town that unfortunately gained international recognition for the wrong reasons on July 4th — Highland Park, Illinois. I went to school there, worked my first job there, and still visit frequently. It’s a wonderful community that is still picking up the pieces. In college at the University of Pennsylvania, I was the managing editor of The Daily Pennsylvanian student newspaper, though I never thought seriously of becoming a journalist. I majored in psychology and communications, though I never thought seriously about a career in either. However, after several years as a marketer, I realized that psychology + communications = marketing.
Can you share a story with us about what brought you to this specific career path?
I remember exactly when I began working in customer experience. I was recruited by the Chief Digital Officer at Discover Card to a role called head of digital customer experience and social media. I asked him at an introductory lunch why he had chosen me for the role, given that I had never worked previously in either digital customer experience or social media. What he told me next changed the entire direction of my career: he said, “I’ve been watching you in meetings, and no matter what the business problem is, you always try to solve it from the customer’s perspective.” He was right of course, but I had honestly never perceived that trait about myself. That role taught me about the power of customer experience and how it can actually become the best form of marketing — word of mouth. Today I like to joke that if I never have to run another marketing campaign again, it will be too soon. Instead, I teach companies how to focus on their existing customers, who are the best marketers in the world.
Can you tell us the most interesting story that happened to you since you began your career?
One of the things we focused on at Discover Card was what the Harvard Business Review called the number one influence on loyalty: reducing customer effort. In one particular case, we learned from website analytics that the top reason for visiting the Discover Card site was to review recent transactions. But it took several clicks to get to that page. We decided to create a Facebook-like feed on the homepage, immediately after people logged in. It showed each customer’s 10 most recent transactions. What happened next surprised everyone: tens of thousands of customers logged in and logged right back out without clicking on anything. In an e-commerce environment, this would be a colossal failure. But at a credit card company that understood that nobody wakes up in the morning wanting to visit their credit card website, this was a huge win. We were delivering exactly what customers wanted simply and immediately. It was not a coincidence that we won the coveted J.D. Power Award for Customer Satisfaction for the first time that year — one of my proudest career accomplishments. It is also not surprising that virtually every other credit card company now does the same thing.
Can you share a story about the funniest mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?
I hate to throw a colleague under the bus, but this mistake wasn’t mine. At my first job out of college, there was an unwritten rule that you could make any mistake once. As long as you learned from it and didn’t do it again, no one would get mad at you. My buddy who sat next to me placed an order for full-color printed brochures that contained an extra zero in the quantity. This was a costly error that likely cost the company more than his annual salary. Sure enough, our boss walked by and said out loud, “just don’t do it again.” And guess what? None of us ever made that mistake again!
None of us are able to achieve success without some help along the way. Is there a particular person who you are grateful towards who helped get you to where you are? Can you share a story about that?
In the story above about recognizing my knack for customer experience, the Chief Digital Officer was Mike Boush, who now works for Goldman Sachs. He also encouraged me to “get out there” and start speaking at conferences. He clearly didn’t know at the time that he was unleashing a beast! But I still credit him today for helping me fall in love with both public speaking and my chosen topic, customer experience.
You have been blessed with great success in a career path that can be challenging and intimidating. Do you have any words of advice for others who may want to embark on this career path, but seem daunted by the prospect of failure?
You have to start somewhere. I started speaking as a “side hustle” while still fully employed. I remember having to beg my way onto panels at events. After being a panelist a few times, I started to get invited onto panels. Then I had to beg my way onto the stage for my first solo presentation. After some time, I started getting invited to speak solo. Then when I went off on my own and started my business in 2019, I learned how to get paid for speaking. Each step I learned along the way, and each time I got on stage I became more comfortable as a speaker.
What drives you to get up every day and give your talks? What is the main empowering message that you aim to share with the world?
I feel so lucky to be able to do what I love every day, so it’s become a lot easier for me to wake up each day and go to work. I like to say that I get to work for The Dan now instead of The Man, and that alone inspires me to work harder. I also love making a difference for people. I teach that a remarkable customer experience can be the best sales and marketing strategy. Everything I teach, from my proprietary methodology to all of the real-world examples I share, is put through three filters that I learned while working in Corporate America: simple, practical and inexpensive. So when audiences leave my keynotes or workshops, they feel inspired and empowered. I’ll never get tired of hearing stories of people going back to work the next day and changing how they do business. When we focus on our existing customers instead of always worrying about selling to new ones, our customers stay longer, spend more, and refer their friends and colleagues.
You have such impressive work. What are some of the most interesting or exciting projects you are working on now? Where do you see yourself heading from here?
I am thrilled to be working on a new keynote with a co-presenter on how diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI) is actually a customer experience issue. Much of the content around DEI focuses on it being a hiring issue, which it certainly is. We can’t truly understand our diverse customers without having a diverse employee base to help us interpret. Our keynote focuses on how companies can develop products and services — as well as marketing and customer experience — that is inclusive of everyone. After all, in almost every business the customer base is diverse in almost every way you can define diverse. But marketing, product development, and customer experience often focus on only on generic persona, ignoring the incredible intricacies of how different types of people look at the same product or company.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
My favorite business quote isn’t a business quote at all, but actually a baseball quote. It’s “Do Simple Better” and it’s from former Chicago Cubs manager Joe Maddon. He was talking about making the basic plays every time so that you can afford to sometimes miss the more difficult plays. But “Do Simple Better” is also an ideal mantra for customer experience. The more we simplify, the faster and more convenient we make doing business with us, the more loyal our customers will be.
Ok, thank you for all that. Here is the main question of our interview. What are your “5 Things You Need To Be A Highly Effective Public Speaker?” Please share a story or example for each.
Talk about what you know. The best way to become comfortable as a public speaker is to talk about topics where you are already an expert. I never get nervous talking about customer experience, but if someone asked me to talk about astrophysics I would certainly be more than a little afraid. I remember getting the chance to give a 5-minute presentation at an all-employee meeting at one of my jobs. I was sitting next to a very senior executive who was going on before me, and I noticed that he was very nervous. He was sweating profusely, and he was literally writing notes on top of his notes on a little card. I asked him what he was talking about, and then casually asked him if he was our company’s top expert on this topic, which I knew he was. Then I told him to just talk about what he knows, and to forget the notes-upon-notes. After all, no one in the audience would ever know if he missed a bullet point! He went on stage more confident and nailed his speech.
You need an effective niche. Saying that you are simply a customer service or leadership speaker will get you lumped in with hundreds of other people who speak on the same topic it is important to differentiate by creating a ”niche within a niche.” For me, that’s about the intersection of customer experience and marketing — how to generate word-of-mouth marketing by creating remarkable experiences. This leverages my corporate background that makes me more credible, as well as my brand — The Experience Maker™.
You need to understand what your clients and their audiences need from you. What problem are they trying to solve, and why are you the person to help them solve it? For me, it’s my corporate leadership experience that allows me to empathize and say, “I’ve been there” and to share both my own experiences and real-world stories that I know will inspire people to take action. I look for organizations that are bought into customer experience but may not know exactly where to start or where to go next.
You need to practice in a way that makes sense to you. For some people, that means scripting out every word and practicing over and over again until it’s just right. For me it means constantly trying new things, knowing what I want to say but not being afraid to say it differently each time, being willing to improvise, and not over-rehearsing lest I start worrying about missing a bullet point.
You have to be at least somewhat entertaining. Think about the best speakers that you’ve seen at industry conferences. They usually have effective content, and are good at communicating that content, but they’re also usually fun to watch. That doesn’t mean you have to be to juggle or sword-swallow or anything like that, but when I am teaching audiences how to create remarkable experiences, I look at it as my job to also create a remarkable experience for them.
As you know, many people are terrified of speaking in public. Can you give some of your advice about how to overcome this fear?
Get on as many stages as you can. Every time you speak on a stage, you’ll learn something about yourself. You’ll learn which stories you enjoy telling, and which ones trip you up. You’ll learn what gets an audience reaction, and what gets them to start checking their phones. You’ll learn about cadence and timing and choreography. And you’ll get a little bit better every time.
Watch as many speakers as you can. I love learning from other great presenters, and on several occasions I have adopted attributes of other speakers that I found to be effective as an audience member. An “attribute” might be something like how the person stands on stage, how they interact with the audience, or how they design their slides.
You are a person of huge influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be?
I would like to get everyone, no matter what their political beliefs, to start listening more to people who don’t think like them. We have all become entrenched in our own opinions, which are amplified in the media we choose to consume and the social media “friends” we choose to engage with. It has become popular to demonize the other side, to call anyone who doesn’t agree with us “the enemy,” to assume they are wrong before even understanding their point of view. Most political issues could result in a reasonable compromise if we’d all just listen a little more. For example, I read a statistic from a poll recently that showed that the vast majority of Americans fall somewhere in the middle on hot-button topics like abortion (i.e., not “100% ban” and not “100% allow”), yet the entire debate is being held at the far left and right edges. That leaves no room for compromise. By listening to others, we don’t have to agree with them. But at least we can understand them a little better, and they can understand us a little better. That’s the first step in learning how to compromise.
Is there a person in the world whom you would love to have lunch with, and why? Maybe we can tag them and see what happens!
My personal business hero is Howard Schultz, founder and CEO of Starbucks. I love what that brand is about, how it focuses as much on the experience of having a cup of coffee as on the coffee itself. I love how each store is a little bit different, bringing in design elements from the local community surrounding it. And I love all of the opportunities it provides for its employees, which is reflected back with how friendly they are to customers. After all, happy employees equal happy customers, every time.
Are you on social media? How can our readers follow you online?
I’d love to connect on LinkedIn and Twitter, and I publish a regular blog and newsletter on all things customer experience.
This was so informative, thank you so much! We wish you continued success!
If you don’t listen, if you don’t ask people what will help them thrive. If you don’t care, if you’re not open, if you don’t think about their safety — psychological and otherwise — where your teams and some individuals are concerned, you’re not going to have trust.
As a part of our series about “How Diversity Can Increase a Company’s Bottom Line”, I had the pleasure of interviewing Amri Johnson.
For over 20 years, Amri (say Ahm ree) Johnson has been instrumental in helping organizations and their people create extraordinary business outcomes. Johnson is the CEO/Founder of Inclusion Wins and the author of the new book “Reconstructing Inclusion: Making Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) Accessible, Actionable, and Sustainable.” An inclusion strategist, executive advisor, social capitalist, epidemiologist, and entrepreneur, Johnson’s mission is to create thousands of organizations that thrive via inclusive behaviors, leadership, structures, and practices. With an English and biology degree from Morehouse College and a Master’s degree in Public Health from Emory, Johnson is building a global cooperative of people-focused solution providers whose work is informed and enhanced by inclusiveness. He is currently based in Basel, Switzerland with his wife and children, and works with organizations around the world. Learn more at inclusionwins.com.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we dive into the main part of our interview, our readers would love to “get to know you” a bit more. Can you share a bit of your “backstory” with us?
I grew up in Topeka, Kansas. My father was a mortician. He did everything — embalmer, funeral director, and all-around entrepreneur.
My mother was an educator. She has a Ph.D. in early childhood development and worked in various capacities in education from middle and high school levels through the college level. She currently still runs my late father’s mortuary. My mom is a jack-of-many trades. Her family dabbled in a variety of businesses, too. So we’re a family of entrepreneurs. That was what my experience was like growing up.
I went to Morehouse College in Atlanta, GA. The college of Martin Luther King, Jr. and many other great Black men. It shaped my views on what I wanted to create in the world.
I met an epidemiologist early in my career, and I didn’t care for him much at first. He irritated me. But he understood me and gave me so much affirmation about what public health could do that I could use it as a vehicle. Following college, I went to graduate school to study epidemiology at Rollins School of Public Health at Emory University. My public health career followed.
Can you share the funniest or most interesting story that happened to you since you started your career? Can you tell us the lesson or takeaway you took out of that story?
I got a job, which was my second job out of graduate school. The head of the local health department asked me to take on the head of epidemiology or director of epidemiology and health promotion job. And I had a team of 10. A lot of them were older than me. Pretty much all of them except for a couple. One of them had a son born on the same day in the same year as me. So it was like I was working for my mother. But she was so generous with teaching me a lot. But what I found is, you know, I was young, and I was a poor manager. I was fortunate to have people around me that knew that I was green and looked out, including an assistant that had been an assistant for many executives in the state government. And she just knew leadership, and so she indirectly taught me that, along with many other senior people in the health department, contributing to my development. So I got so obsessed with my poor leadership management skills that I decided to make it into a career.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you tell us a story about how that was relevant in your own life?
“A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still .” My father used to say that a lot. Some people attributed it to Ben Franklin, but we don’t know whom it came from exactly. I worked in this space of organizational change, and I always feel like it needs to come from people’s hearts.
Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion intersects with organizational development and change. You can’t convince somebody of something that they don’t want to be convinced of. So I spend more time in dialogue, seeing what’s of interest to people rather than trying to convince them straight away.
Once that relationship trust is built, I think there’s more willingness to be influenced by me even though I might not be somebody there are so familiar with. But I think when we can do that — and it’s something that I practiced — build that trust enough for people to engage with you in an open and vulnerable way, you can transform things, and it’s never against someone’s will.
None of us are able to achieve success without some help along the way. Is there a particular person who you are grateful towards who helped get you to where you are?
There are many. And it depends on if we’re just talking about career. I don’t separate my personal and spiritual life from my work. I don’t go and talk about my spiritual life all the time during my work, but it’s there. It sits in the background.
So I had a pastor when I was young. His name was John T. Olds. He was the first pastor that I knew and he was the closest thing to Jesus that I ever had met at the time. He said something once from the pulpit that he repeated frequently. It is how can you appreciate people? It’s not just be thankful to them but how can you appreciate them and how can we show that appreciation? And so that’s something that I carried with me in the way that I engage in the world, engage with my team and my clients. It’s that level of appreciation for people’s uniqueness, as well as their greater humanity. So that’s really been at the center of my life. It really stood out. I’ll never forget that time that he said that from the pulpit.
What do you think makes your company stand out? Can you share a story?
I think it’s that we are really trying to do two things. And this is part of the work of creating an “inclusion system .”We’re trying to do it for all of our clients and then even for those who aren’t clients. We want to inspire this notion that we can create the conditions for everybody regardless of their identity or their background. We can create the conditions for everyone to thrive. And the only way we can do that is when we have the right dialogue on an ongoing basis and create the space for those dialogues. So that those things that help people thrive, that help them feel like they have a sense of autonomy and agency — that they are learning that they’re making their best contribution to the organization.
That’s really at the heart of everything we do. Now, because we work in diversity, some spaces are about getting people from various backgrounds in the door.
But for us, that’s only step one. Because even if you get those so-called people from diverse backgrounds or from more diverse backgrounds and you’ve historically had in, you have to do a lot to keep them, which takes more energy effort.
A more recent story is when we partnered with a university to do a racial equity summit. I haven’t been big in the social justice space. Ironically, I work in DEI and my social justice kind of lens has always been there, but I haven’t been kind of very focused on race like we’ve seen in the past couple years after the murder of George Floyd. Now it’s always there in the background. It’s always discussed, but it has led my work. But in this case, I got a chance to facilitate with some amazing practitioners.
One was the head of the diversity at the university, and then a couple other OD practitioners. We did a summit that was supposed to be 300 people, which was manageable. It was done online during COVID.
It was tough.
There was a lot of tension in this space. And we facilitated this event and all the things that came during and all that’s come after has been from the hearts of the people. The people drove it. At the heart of our work is the fact that we’re trying to create culture from the hearts of all the individuals in an organization. That collective kind of thread that goes through everybody is what we’re trying to create. Creating it and implementing it together is not the responsibility of a few. It’s a shared interdependent state of being and that’s what we try to foster all the time, and in that experience of facilitating that event with those colleagues, we were deeply connected in that experience.
The participants that we’re engaged in these dialogues — to really start thinking about an approach or strategy for equity in the organization — were connected. That’s been maintained so we’re really excited about that.
Are you working on any new or exciting projects now? How do you think that might help people?
We have some projects that are ongoing. One of them is with a financial services company. They’re mostly algorithmic and digital in the work that they do. Most of the people are quants and engineers. They are really smart people.
But what’s been really brilliant about working with them is their leadership team. Particularly the COO & CEOs, they’re really committed to this dynamic conversation about equity, diversity, and inclusion, in a way that’s really unambiguously prioritized.
They’re putting the effort and the resources in. They don’t want this to be something that’s short term. They really want this to be built on the foundation of who they feel like they are and who they want their company to be. So that’s exciting because it’s atypical. They are so generous with what they’re trying to do with their folks, that it almost seems surreal. It doesn’t seem like that’s the kind of place that’s typical when you talk financial services. But they’re breaking the mold of what a financial services company can do. And we are reconstructing it in a way that I think is going to tell a really profound story to all the people that might seek to work there, as well as those who continue to help build this really dynamic culture.
How have you used your success to bring goodness to the world?
I think the project with the financial services company will help the employees there. They have a passion about climate change and make significant contributions to such causes. So I think they’re really focused on making sure they have diverse representation in the organization and high levels of kindness and compassion with one another. That, in and of itself, I think, ends up going out into the world when people live and experience that every day. I think most of these people, the way I’ve experienced them is that’s a lens that they have. And they want to do work in the community as a result. So like there’s a kind of an edict inside.
And it’s being expressed in some of the things that they choose to engage in the communities where they do business. So I think that’s going to help people, in terms of my success bringing goodness to the world. I hope so. I’d say one thing that’s really important to me is to do what I can to make contributions to people that we’ve developed relationships with, and they want to thrive.
I’ve mentored a lot of women scientists. Science is a difficult space for women — science, engineering, STEM disciplines as a whole. And just negotiating and helping them look into the mirror to see their own power, while most of the time they’re looking out the window.
We let them see in the mirror to say, “Hey, here’s where your power lies, here’s your agency. Here’s how you can navigate sometimes tricky, and even sometimes hostile situations successfully.” I feel like I’ve done that a lot. I’ve done it, and I’ve seen the people that I’ve engaged with whether they were women in STEM disciplines or anyone else who wanted to navigate the world to make their mark. I feel like I’ve done that quite a bit, and it’s just kind of become natural over the years.
Ok. Thank you for that. Let’s now jump to the main part of our interview. This may be obvious to you, but it is not intuitive to many people. Can you articulate to our readers five ways that increased diversity can help a company’s bottom line.
It’s actually Diversity and Equity and Inclusion. So I think, you know there’s plenty of research that says when you have diverse teams you have better outcomes. That’s there.
But I think sometimes that’s made kind of cliche that “diverse teams get better outcomes.” It’s not the diverse teams in and of themselves; it’s that difference coupled with the ability to navigate across those differences both cognitively, and with people’s identity. So we want diverse thinking among those diverse people and those things usually go hand in hand. And so when you bring people that are different together, they have more of a tendency to challenge ideas; there’s more dissent. Dissent is what you need if you want to really have unique solutions and to innovate, so that’s a real thing.
It’s also making sure that you bring diversity in, but give people the skills. When I say skills, I mean things like helping people learn better perspective-taking. People are able to recognize when there are value dynamics or value conflicts and they’re not attached to their own values or biases or preferences, traditions, and conveniences. As one of my heroes in the diversity space, Roosevelt Thomas, often talked about is the importance of giving people the space to understand how the diversity of their background might be in conflict with somebody else. So I’ll give an example there.
I had one client. They came to me and they worked in the safety element of drug discovery. I do work with a lot of health care and pharma-related firms. So, this particular group was a part of early, before-the-clinic safety. But the nature of their roles spanned all the way from the bench almost directly to the bedside, so they’re pretty well-experienced. So they were challenged because the drug discovery development team they were working with saw them more like a transaction. It was like they were a vendor, although they were internal employees.
And so they came to me and they were like, “I just don’t feel like we’re really integrating into the team.” So I asked them a little bit about the structure. And they said it’s more of a transaction. They have us come and talk about the safety issues, but if there’s a problem and we have to slow something down, it’s usually just a sign of disappointment. And we probably could have anticipated or done something to make sure we didn’t slow down, if we had been included more earlier.
And I said, well, that’s a really compelling argument. If I’m on a team and I want to speed stuff up or I want to be able to understand the safety data earlier and get early readouts in a way that allows me to anticipate what might come later on, even if we can’t get an early readout just because the nature of how you have to do the drug discovery process. But in any case, we can be anticipating what we could be learning, or how we could maybe even mitigate some safety issues while we’re thinking about our respective compounds.
So I said, well, why don’t you contract with them? This idea comes from Peter Block’s work on Flawless Consulting and Contracting. So they went to the drug discovery team leads and said, “Hey look, we really want to be able to provide you with the best safety data as early in the process as possible. We want to be able to tell you and give you some insights, before it can potentially slow the project down.
We feel like we can do that a lot better and we need from you to include us in the meetings in a more robust way. Meetings after the meeting, maybe even talking to us about crafting or giving some input into an agenda so that we could share where we are and maybe talk about some of these things earlier in the meeting, or sometimes in between meetings, to help form the agenda. And then if there’s meetings after the meeting, let us know.”
And so they did that, and the result was that the teams gelled more. They saw safety as a helping force.
The safety folks felt like they were listened to. Some of the people on the drug discovery teams got to spend more time with the safety people. They learned what to think about as you get later and closer to the clinic, which the preclinical safety people had a better idea of, than a lot of people that had been mostly in discovery in their scientific careers. So there were benefits everywhere. But the biggest benefit was to projects. Because the project timelines are historically slowed down, often because of safety issues, which you know you can expect. That got reduced across multiple teams in a variety of ways over a couple, three years when I was able to talk to them and observe. So qualitatively and anecdotally they shared that.
It also played out in the timelines that we had some quality quantitative data to look at. So that was one of the things I’m really proud of and something that I think you can take into account that there were differences. There was diversity there across disciplines.
They were all trying to achieve the same goal because they all work for the same company that wants to get the drugs approved that patients need.
They just weren’t on the same page on how interdependent they were, and that if they included each other — if they were open to being influenced by each other — that they would have the ability to really do great work in ways that they couldn’t have expected before they embarked on this one.
What advice would you give to other business leaders to help their employees to thrive?
The biggest way to help your employees thrive is listening to them. To ask them, “What is enabling you to do your best work to make your best contribution?”
What can you do more, what can you do less of, what can you do differently with them — ask them that, and don’t just ask them once. Because those things change. If we can say anything about COVID — the way people were feeling at the beginning of COVID, the way they were feeling six months in, a year in, 18 months and even until today — how they’re feeling about the pandemic and all the things that have happened in between, including the deaths and dehumanization of people of color. Those things matter, and you have to ask people where they are. You need to do it regularly, and you need to do it with care.
When you do it right, you’re doing it with an openness. You’re making it safe for people to share, and you’re doing all you can to constantly build trust. So that’s an acronym: Care, Openness, Sharing, Trust. That’s the “COST of Inclusion.”
If you don’t listen, if you don’t ask people what will help them thrive. If you don’t care, if you’re not open, if you don’t think about their safety — psychological and otherwise — where your teams and some individuals are concerned, you’re not going to have trust.
So those things go hand in hand and then they’re bigger than just Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion. They are critical to any organization, to any team, any leader that is committed to leadership. Those things are all costs that they would gladly pay if they really understood how to give their people what they need to thrive.
What advice would you give to other business leaders about how to manage a large team?
Large or small, I want to give people direction.
I don’t want to give it to them unilaterally. I want to say, “Here’s where we’re going.” So there is some vision to that. But it’s not a vision where I just kind of sat around and I’m the visionary and I’m going to tell you this. It’s an active vision that says, “Hey, here’s what we’re seeing, here’s what some of our clients are saying, here’s what is in alignment with who we are values-wise.” And start pointing in the right direction and leave it open from the outset. There will be times that there are some non-negotiables.
But for the most part if you’re going to do something that’s going to influence somebody, you want them to be involved in it. People commit to what they help to create. The more you can get people in a space where they can help you create something, the more that they can own it and say “Hey, based on what I know, this is not going to take two weeks. This should take me like two or three days.”
On the flip side, saying, “Hey look, I know we have this timeline that’s aggressive. But if we have to do this, we’re not going to get the return on it that we want, so we need to push back at least a little bit, as much as we can, to make sure we really thoroughly vet this.
I think that’s the biggest thing. Give people good direction, and then let them fly and let them make mistakes, and let them come back. Let them iterate with you. Let them ask you as many questions as they need to.
And know that you’re not going to be the only one with the answers. If they come to you with questions, you can say “Here’s how it occurs to me,” and they need to also go to other trusted people who are influential in their organization, people who are influenced by the work that’s being done, or who just have great insights based on their expertise or their experience.
We are very blessed that some of the biggest names in Business, VC funding, Sports, and Entertainment read this column. Is there a person in the world, or in the US whom you would love to have a private breakfast or lunch with, and why? He or she might just see this 🙂
I love Dave Chappelle even through all this controversy. I love Denzel Washington. I love the work of Jordan Peele, as a director. I’m a big fan of so many literary artists. I like Tracy Chapman. I just feel like she would be quite interesting. She just seems like she’s really deep and insightful.
I’d love to have breakfast with Alice Walker. I can think of quite a few people.
But one of the ones who keeps coming to mind is George W. Bush. There’s always been something about him. I didn’t always agree politically with him. But just as a person, I think he’s seen so much. And I think he has a level of compassion and a perspective that I think would be really one that I would get a lot out of.
I saw his dad speak years ago and his dad was a master storyteller. I think we’re in Palm Springs.
And he just told some amazing stories when I heard him speak. I imagine W’s similar so it’s just an ironic feat. I know it’s not a political statement, even though I grew up with a mother that’s Republican. But I would love to have a coffee, breakfast, or lunch with him. I think he would be quite interesting and have some great things to share.
How can our readers further follow your work online?
Please find us at inclusionwins.com. Here are links to pre-order my book, Reconstructing Inclusion: Making DEI Accessible, Actionable, and Sustainable. The release date is October 4.
Frame your message from the audience’s point of view. Here’s what I mean.
At some point in our lives, many of us will have to give a talk to a large group of people. What does it take to be a highly effective public speaker? How can you improve your public speaking skills? How can you overcome a fear of speaking in public? What does it take to give a very interesting and engaging public talk? In this interview series called “5 Things You Need To Be A Highly Effective Public Speaker” we are talking to successful and effective public speakers to share insights and stories from their experience. As a part of this series, we had the pleasure of interviewing Carol Lempert.
Carol Lempert started her career as a stage and film actress. She now runs a boutique training and consultancy firm that helps supercharge corporate leader’s executive presence — and their careers — with the performance secrets actors use to light up the screen.
Currently, she and her team run in-person and virtual training programs for Fortune 500 companies on public speaking, selling with stories, personal branding, executive presence, and resiliency.
Fun fact: (shhh, don’t tell her mother) rather than a cup of joe for breakfast, Carol has been known to start her day with a cup of Häagen-Dazs coffee ice cream.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Our readers would love to get to know you a bit better. Can you tell us the story of how you grew up?
I’m a lower middle-class Jewish kid from the ‘burbs who is the oldest of three. My brother Sheldon would tell you I was a classic bossy big sister. Which just goes to show I took my responsibilities as first born seriously. My dad was a plasterer and later a dry-wall repairman. My mom was, as she likes to say, a housewife.
Music and performing were everything to me as a kid. I loved to sing. I spent every Saturday afternoon watching Shirley Temple and Judy Garland movies. By the time I was nineteen, I was driving all over Metro Detroit performing in dinner theatres and musicals.
Both of my parents were children of immigrants. They enjoyed my performing, but insisted I have, “something to fall back on.” Education was very important to them.
I was the first kid in my family to go to college. I studied psychology, and theatre and graduated with a Bachelor of Fine Arts from Wayne State University.
After that I worked as a professional actor for many, many years.
Now I teach executives how to increase their executive presence by teaching them the skills actors use to have great stage and screen presence. This, of course, includes helping them write and deliver killer presentations.
Can you share a story with us about what brought you to this specific career path?
I’m doing what I’m doing today because of my brother Sheldon. One of the skills I teach speakers is to tell stories, so here’s the story.
One day Sheldon phones me up and says, “Sis, get over here. Now!” So, of course I drive right over to his house. When I get there, I discover that his best friend, Lance, is in the washroom throwing up.
I’m like, Call 911.
Turns out Lance had just started a job at one of the big five accounting firms. He had been identified as a high-potential employee — only he didn’t know it.
Seven months into the job he was tapped on the shoulder and told to prepare a presentation about his current project. The audience for his presentation? The big boss. Lance had two weeks’ time.
Lance had never given a presentation in his life. Not even in college. The request sent him into a panic. He called Sheldon for help.
Now, my brother Sheldon had gone into the family business with my dad and was a contractor too. His whole life revolved around fixing things.
When it came to helping Lance, he thought, “I don’t know how to fix a problem like this, but my sister is an actress. She’ll know. A presentation to the big boss must be like going to an audition.”
He was right.
I helped Lance prepare for his presentation and it went better than either of us expected. Lance won a promotion.
That felt great. I did my brother’s friend a favor and I thought that was that.
Then, three months later I get a call from another guy. He tells me he got my name from Lance and asks for my help in getting a promotion too!
That was when I realized my acting skills could help people outside the theatre.
Can you tell us the most interesting story that happened to you since you began your career?
Of course. It happened recently. Out of the blue I got a call from a woman who had been a participant in one of my Executive Presence workshops eight years ago. She had just been hired as Chief Operating Officer at a large agency and realized her team needed some professional development.
It was lovely reconnecting with her.
During our conversation she stopped me midsentence and said: “Hold on, I have to go get my Carol Lempert book.”
I had no idea what she was talking about — because I haven’t yet published a book.
She came back to the Zoom call and showed me a little black journal with my name on it. Turns out she’s been following me on LinkedIN and receiving my newsletter for years. She created her own little Collected Wisdom of Carol Lempert notebook!
I was of course unbelievably flattered.
Can you share a story about the funniest mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?
My most embarrassing mistake — which is funny now but wasn’t at the time — was a wardrobe malfunction.
I was invited to speak at an event for three hundred people. The client hired a professional crew to videotape the entire conference.
During my onboarding call with the tech team I learned the backdrop of the stage was going to be blue curtains. My usual ‘go to’ outfit is blue. I knew from my film acting career if I wore a blue pantsuit in front of a blue background, I’d look like a floating head in the video.
So I went out and bought a new outfit.
Since I already have a few pantsuits in my closet, I decided to buy a dress. I went with something I thought looked sophisticated. A wool dress with an asymmetrical neckline.
For your male readers who have never thought about the ins and outs of wearing a wool dress, this is the kind of material that requires a silk slip underneath.
Fast forward.
I’m on stage in the middle of my talk and I hear a snap. The waist band of my slip had given out. I feel it sliding down my hips. I know if I move another inch it will fall to my ankles in front of the entire audience.
At that exact moment, one of the clients comes on stage to shake my hand. This requires me to walk stage left to greet him. I try waddling over, in a vain attempt to keep my slip above my knees, but next thing I know it falls to the ground.
Making matters worse, as I bend over to pick up the slip, my bra strap falls off my shoulder and is now fully visible through the asymmetrical neckline of my new wool sophisticated dress.
All of this captured on video!
Lesson learned: It’s not enough to rehearse your speech, you have to rehearse every aspect of the performance.
As an actor I should have known better.
There is a special rehearsal all theatres do before opening night called a ‘Tech Rehearsal’. This is when we put the technical elements of the play together. The lights, the sound, and of course, the wardrobe.
I now encourage all of my clients to ‘tech’ their talks.
None of us are able to achieve success without some help along the way. Is there a particular person who you are grateful towards who helped get you to where you are? Can you share a story about that?
I’m indebted to a wonderful woman named Louise Cohen. Over twenty-five years ago — not long after I helped my brother’s friend Lance with his work presentation — Louise interviewed me for the role of Job Finding Club Facilitator (JFC).
All JFCs are administered through local colleges and community groups. Louise’s organization had submitted an RFP to host the program, but their funding didn’t come through and they had to withdraw from the bid.
In the meantime, she had secured a spot at the JFC Train-the-Trainer program.
Even though her organization lost the ability to bid on the contract, she’d already paid for the seat at the training. She gifted me this seat. She was hoping her organization would win another contract in the future and I’d be trained and ready to go.
Unfortunately, they never did.
Because of Louise’s generosity I now had this special certification which enabled me to apply as a facilitator at other clubs. I eventually got hired by George Brown College in Toronto.
I taught at George Brown College for four years. I started out facilitating at the Job Finding Club and ended up running sessions on presentations skills for the college’s Job Search Skills program.
Louise and I became friends. We never worked together, but that training gave me a big leg up.
You have been blessed with great success in a career path that can be challenging and intimidating. Do you have any words of advice for others who may want to embark on this career path, but seem daunted by the prospect of failure?
Don’t go it alone. Get a mentor. Join a group like Toastmasters. Or take some classes.
After I left George Brown College to launch my business, I studied with a woman named Judy Carter. She’s published a great book I’d recommend to any budding speaker. It’s called, The Message of You.
The title of her book is quite literal.
Judy says: “Your message is in the first four letters of the word. You can’t spell message without having made a MESS. And it’s the last 3 letters — AGE — that help you distill that message into something meaningful and inspiring for others.”
Your failures are the heart of what is going to inspire an audience. Don’t be daunted by the prospect of failure. Use your failures to propel you forward.
What drives you to get up every day and give your talks? What is the main empowering message that you aim to share with the world?
What drives me is knowing my thoughts and techniques have been helpful to others. Like the woman I told you about earlier who created her own ‘Carol Lempert’ book.
In terms of my message, I help people overcome performance anxiety and increase their executive presence by learning techniques actors use to have great stage and screen presence.
Actors know ‘being present’ is the core of having presence. In fact, the actress Sandra Oh (Killing Eve. Grey’s Anatomy) once said, “…being present is the actor’s main gig.”
The more awareyou are of your surroundings, and of other people, the more likely you are to show up as your best self.
In addition to being present, I teach that Executive Presence has three other important dimensions:
What people SEE when they look at you.
What people HEAR when they are in conversation with you.
What people FEEL after they’ve had an interaction with you.
Everyone can learn to get better all of these dimensions.
You have such impressive work. What are some of the most interesting or exciting projects you are working on now? Where do you see yourself heading from here?
I’m building new curriculum all the time. As my client’s needs evolve, my business has to change too.
For example, when the pandemic hit, many companies realized they needed to build organizational resilience, so I created a course called: Building Resilience by Taking Care.
Soon after that other clients realized running meetings over Zoom, or Microsoft Teams, was very different than running them in person. To support them I created a course on how to run effective virtual meetings.
Right now I’m working on a program called: No More Death by PowerPoint. It’s an add on to my program on Executive Presence. Once people improve their presence, they still need to be able to create clear, compelling, and succinct presentations.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
Oh! I love telling this story. My biggest “Life Lesson Quote” is from my dad.
I find myself telling a lot of stories about him lately as a way to teach important leadership competencies to clients; especially the competency of shaping team culture by sharing personal values.
My Dad would find it hilarious that I use him to teach a Business School concept. He never attended a leadership development workshop or had a 360-degree review in his life. He was strictly blue collar.
He came home from work every day smelling like a combination of cigarettes, Certs mints, sweat and dry-wall dust. As I mentioned above, he was a contractor. Small jobs in people’s homes. Like renovating a basement or installing crown molding. That kind of thing.
The first time he took me to work with him was the day he shared the life lesson quote.
I was around 10 years old. A lady named Mrs. Greenblatt had a big hole in her living room ceiling because a pipe had burst. My dad (and me!) were going to fix it.
Before we knock on the door to her house my dad puts these pink shower caps over his work boots and makes me do the same. At this point I’m thinking: “This is the best! You get to dress up like a clown when you go to work.” So fun.
Then we unroll the biggest piece of plastic you’ve ever seen onto Mrs. Greenblatt’s living room carpet. After that, in come all of dad’s tools.
At the end of the day, we carry the tools back out to the van, roll up the plastic, take off our clown shoes and drive home.
The next day I hop in the van and ask: “Where are we going today, Daddy?” He replies, “Back to the Greenblatt’s house.”
When we get there, we put the pink shower caps back over our shoes. We roll out the plastic, and we carry all the same HEAVY equipment back into her house.
When we’re finished, I look up at him and I say: “Daddy, why didn’t we just leave all of this stuff here if you knew we were going to be coming back? Seems like a lot of extra work for nothing.”
I’ll never forget the look on his face.
He replies, “Carol, Mrs. Greenblatt didn’t just hire us to patch a hole in her ceiling. She hires us to leave her house nicer than we found it. That means every day, not just at the end of the job when we get paid.”
Leave it nicer than you found it. That’s the quote.
I took this to mean, be of service. Go out of your way to make things nice for others. That’s the highest calling in life, no matter what you do for a living.
Ok, thank you for all that. Here is the main question of our interview. What are your “5 Things You Need To Be A Highly Effective Public Speaker?” Please share a story or example for each.
1) Tell Stories
To be a highly effective public speaker you must know how to tell a good story.
Case in point. Your very first question to me today was, “Can you tell us THE STORY of how you grew up?” You asked me that question because you know people love stories.
When I was three years old my favorite bedtime story was The Ugly Duckling by Hans Christian Andersen. I made my Mom read that story to me hundreds of times. She’d finish the last lines and I’d cry, “Again!”
Ten years later, as a gawky 13-year-old, I clung to the story of The Ugly Duckling.
By then, I wore glasses and braces — when all the other kids were blessed with straight teeth and 20/20 vision. When I looked in the mirror, all I saw was . . . ugly.
The idea I might one day become a beautiful swan got me through most of junior high school.
That’s the power of stories. Their messages give us hope.
I strongly recommend speakers include stories in their presentations because stories:
Build common ground with the audience.
Validate the speaker’s expertise.
Transform a commonly dry topic into one with humor and humanity.
Package the message of the speech in a memorable way.
You can open your speech with a story to grab audience attention. Or close your speech with a story to punctuate your main message. Or tell a story to illustrate a point within the body of your talk — but make sure to include some stories!
2) It’s Not About You. It’s About The Audience
My second tip is to frame your message from the audience’s point of view. Here’s what I mean.
Imagine you are a Broadway Producer, and you are promoting a show. What information would you put out to the world?
There are obvious things like the ticket price, the days and start times of the show, and a synopsis of the plot. But what else? What else might the ticket buying public want to know?
This is a question several Broadway shows have not asked themselves. I know because my Mom was in town visiting a few weeks ago and we were looking at different shows to go and see.
Here are some questions we had, but couldn’t find answers to on websites or ticket buying apps:
How long is the show? If you don’t know when the matinee ends, as well as when the matinee starts, how can you make dinner reservations?
The actual address of the building, not just the name of the theatre. If you are a tourist to New York, you won’t know that Second Stage Theatre is located at 305 West 43rd street. How can you order an Uber or a Lyft without an address?
Will there be an intermission? My Mom is 84. At a certain age you need to know when you will be able to visit the washroom.
I share this with your readers because these are the same mistakes, I see presenters make over and over again.
They sit down to write their presentations and only include information from THEIR perspective. They don’t think deeply enough about their audience.
Before you write your next PowerPoint answer the following questions to make sure you are providing information your audience cares about.
What does my audience already know about my topic? Don’t waste time telling them stuff they already know — unless it is to re-interpret the info.
What does my audience NOT know, but they probably don’t care that much about? Again, don’t waste time telling them stuff they won’t be interested in.
What are they curious about? Like my research into buying a ticket to a Broadway show, THIS is the stuff your audience cares about.
What are they worried about? These are the answers your presentation needs to provide.
What do you want them to do after the presentation is over?
A word of caution here. “I want them to understand my topic” isn’t a good enough answer. Once they understand the topic, what should they DO with the information? What decision needs to be made? What are the next steps? Who is responsible?
This preparation will help you create killer presentations. And if you happen to be a Broadway producer, it will help you sell more tickets!
3) Stage Fright Is Selfish
My third tip is a bit provocative. When clients ask me how to overcome stage fright, I share lots of techniques. Things like deep breathing, rehearsal, and visualization.
But the thing that works best is when I tell them their stage fright is selfish.
It signals they are so focused on themselves, and their own reputation, they are ignoring their audience.
Your job as a presenter is to help the people in the room learn something they didn’t know before they got there. Like I said in tip number two, It’s not about you. It’s about them.
You are there to help them.
When you shift your focus off yourself — and onto your audience — you’ll not only lower the level of anxiety you feel, but you’ll also do a better presentation.
4) Recover Gracefully
You will make mistakes. Accept that as a fact.
You’ll forget to say the most important line in your presentation. You’ll drop the clicker. You’ll trip as you enter the stage. Or, like me, your slip will fall off!
None of that will matter if you learn to recover gracefully.
5) Q&A Isn’t a Ping-Pong Match
The best presenters sabotage their success when they are not skilled a handling the question period.
Q&A is an extension of the message. It isn’t a ping-pong game where audiences ‘serve’ questions at a speaker and the speaker ‘hits’ their answer back at their audience trying to score points.
Skilled presenters know how to turn questions into conversation.
The first step is to uncover WHY the person is asking their question in the first place and not just hear the content of the question.
The second step is to be fully present and listen. If you formulate your answer while the audience member is still talking, you will likely miss an important detail.
The most important thing is to take charge of the question period.
Speakers do this when they realize they can ask questions back too. If an audience member’s query is confusing, or too long, or mixes two questions into one, the speaker can ask a question to clarify.
This is what turns dry Q&A into meaningful conversations.
For example, if you are speaking about your vision for the future of your company and someone in the audience asks, “How long will it take to hire fresh talent?” The answer might be, “6 months”
If that’s all you say, you’ve lost the opportunity to create a shared pool of meaning with your audience.
Better to answer the questions and then ask: “What is it about finding fresh talent that is important to you?”
You’ll be surprised what you learn when you start to incorporate this technique.
As you know, many people are terrified of speaking in public. Can you give some of your advice about how to overcome this fear?
Oh, I have a lot to say about stage fright. In addition to what I shared earlier about it being selfish, here are some other techniques I’ve taught to clients.
First, smile.
Smiling is a simple, but powerful way to manage nerves, reduce stress, and look more confident.
Research from Penn State University found a forced smile is equally as effective as a natural one. They also noted that smiling is contagious. When a person smiles, other people will smile back, putting everyone into a more positive mental state. So, when you are feeling jumpy before the big presentation, remember to smile.
Second, breathe.
When anxiety hits, our breathing rate changes. We instinctively start breathing into our upper chest with shallow, rapid breaths. This is the body’s way of preparing itself to deal with real or perceived danger.
By consciously changing your breathing pattern you can interrupt and reverse the symptoms of this Emergency Response.
Instead of breathing into your upper chest with rapid, shallow breaths, deliberately take slow, deep breaths that push oxygen into your lower chest and belly. This kind of breathing will slow the heart rate, decrease blood pressure, soften tight muscles, and create a sense of ease in the body.
Next, harness the power of your mind.
Thoughts are things. What we tell ourselves — what we see in our mind’s eye — becomes our reality.
An Australian psychologist named Alan Richardson performed a remarkable study to prove the power of the visualization. He recruited volunteer students, divided them into three groups and taught them to play basketball. None of them had ever played before.
Group One practiced their free throws with the help of a coach every day for 20 consecutive days.
Group Two was the control group. They did free throws on the first and last days of the study, but they did not engage in any other additional basketball practice.
Group Three also did free throws on day one of the research, but after the first ‘test’ throw, they didn’t touch a basketball again until the end of the study. In between they spent 20 minutes a day visualizing the perfect free throw.
The results?
Group One, the group that practiced every day, improved by 24%. Not surprisingly, Group Two, didn’t improve at all. But Group Three, the group that didn’t practice with a real basketball, but only visualized one, did almost as well as Group One. They improved by 23%.
Our minds are powerful. Use this to your advantage.
Finally, remember, the audience wants you to do well. They don’t want to conclude they have wasted their time. They’re pulling for you to be great — so they can feel great about spending time with you.
You are a person of huge influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be?
I have a talk called: Power Play: Why Everyone Should Take An Acting Class.
Theatre training is incredibly effective in helping people cope with their stage fright, or their boss fright, or their test fright, or their date fright, and even their Imposture Syndrome.
Theatre and Improvisational training hones tools to manage anxiety, as well as provides opportunities to practice deep empathy in a safe environment. When you play a character you step into their shoes.
We’d have a more forgiving world if everyone could learn to step into the shoes of another person and see the world from their perspective.
That’s what actors do and what I wish everyone was more skilled at.
Is there a person in the world whom you would love to have lunch with, and why? Maybe we can tag them and see what happens!
What a cool offer. I’d be over the moon to meet and speak with the improviser, comedian, and host Wayne Brady.
First, he’s unbelievably talented and has made me laugh more times than I can count. I’d like to say thank you.
Also, I recently heard him speak on Variety’s Strictly Business podcast. He shared his plans to build a business consulting firm that will teach the tenets of improvisational acting to help coach executives and other leaders.
This marriage of theatre, acting, improv, and business is something I am also passionate about. I’d love to learn more about his plans and if I might be able to help.
So, hellooooo Wayne. If somehow you are reading this — you’ve a fan with common interests!
Are you on social media? How can our readers follow you online?
Zaundra Wimberley Of Dream Z Enterprises On The 5 Things You Need To Be A Highly Effective Public Speaker
An Interview With Fotis Georgiadis
The best way to improve your public speaking skills is to speak on every occasion possible for practice. Speaking in small social gatherings, at church services, or in work settings are good options.
At some point in our lives, many of us will have to give a talk to a large group of people. What does it take to be a highly effective public speaker? How can you improve your public speaking skills? How can you overcome a fear of speaking in public? What does it take to give a very interesting and engaging public talk? In this interview series called “5 Things You Need To Be A Highly Effective Public Speaker” we are talking to successful and effective public speakers to share insights and stories from their experience. As a part of this series, we had the pleasure of interviewing Zaundra A. Wimberley.
Zaundra A. Wimberley is the CEO of Dream Z enterprises, an author, career transition coach and speaker with expertise in human resources, public health and child nutrition. Dream Z Enterprises is a coaching and training firm which specializes in empowering women to become their professional best. The company offers workshops in career transition, workplace etiquette, customer service, personal branding and entrepreneurialism.
As an entrepreneur Zaundra was the first black woman to own a commercially sold baby food product in the United States. She founded Little Lamb Baby Food Company in 1997 and launched the line in stores in 2004. The company manufactured and distributed southern style baby foods in Michigan to multiple specialty food chains.
Zaundra has taken her quest to find purpose in life and turned it into a book entitled From Bossed to Boss It’s Never Too Late Reclaim Your Dreams And Live In Purpose. Zaundra takes the reader on her journey of questioning God about her existence to discovering that the answers she sought were already there.
Zaundra holds a Bachelor of Arts in Communications from the University of Michigan and a Master of Public Administration from Wayne State University.
She is a wife and mother of five. In her spare time, she enjoys movie night with her family, reading, writing, cycling and listening to her favorite collection of 80’s music.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Our readers would love to get to know you a bit better. Can you tell us the story of how you grew up?
I grew up on the east side of Detroit in a middle-class family. I am the youngest of three children. My brothers were my senior by 15 and 16 years so I was raised like an only child. I am a first-generation college graduate. My parents wanted me to go to college in an effort to secure my future. Both of my parents were in our home but my mother was the primary influence on my life. I attended private schools and enjoyed being a kid.
Can you share a story with us about what brought you to this specific career path?
I have always had a love for storytelling. I love to listen to a good story, whether it is in the form of a book, poem, documentary, music video or any other means. Today I am a transition coach who teaches people how to transition from a job to their business or dream career. I share steps to make dreams come true via story telling during my coaching sessions and in my workshops and trainings.
Can you tell us the most interesting story that happened to you since you began your career?
I needed to secure capital to open a processing plant for my baby food company in 2004. I reached out to investors while offering them some shares of my company. One potential investor was Kourtney Kardashian. I met with her manager/mom Kris Jenner via a phone call to make my pitch. She thought it was fascinating but was not interested in making the investment.
Can you share a story about the funniest mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?
The funniest mistake I made was having to take my baby to a business meeting. As a mother of five, I did not always have a baby sister. On this occasion, I had to take my daughter to pitch to a client. The lesson I learned was to only do business with people who understand and respect your lifestyle. There was nothing I could do. The ladies in the office were amused and it worked out.
None of us are able to achieve success without some help along the way. Is there a particular person who you are grateful towards who helped get you to where you are? Can you share a story about that?
My mother was my biggest supporter. She believed in my ideas and would support with encouraging words and financial support. She and my father invested in my baby food company and were proud of how far I was able to take it. I was often reminded by my mother that I was smart and could do anything if I tried and put my mind to it.
You have been blessed with great success in a career path that can be challenging and intimidating. Do you have any words of advice for others who may want to embark on this career path, but seem daunted by the prospect of failure?
I believe that failures have a purpose. They teach lessons — what not to do and ways to do it differently.
What drives you to get up everyday and give your talks? What is the main empowering message that you aim to share with the world?
I am inspired to get up every day believing that I may be able to help someone. I share my stories to encourage others to live in their purpose. My mantra is “life is too short to be miserable.” It is important to live in purpose. Many people are miserable because they have not found their “why” which motivates a person to get up every day and live.
You have such impressive work. What are some of the most interesting or exciting projects you are working on now? Where do you see yourself heading from here?
I have launched an online Masterclass called “Pivoting to Your Boss Job” and “Pivoting to Your Boss Career.” Attendees will be ready to start their businesses or transition from their job at the conclusion of this masterclass. The classes can be found on my website: zaundrawimberley.com
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
“Life is too short to be miserable.” I learned that I was not happy in my job and I needed to make a change. I was able to find my purpose (which had been buried from childhood) and begin to do what I love — tell stories, encourage, inspire and empower others to make a change.
Ok, thank you for all that. Here is the main question of our interview. What are your “5 Things You Need To Be A Highly Effective Public Speaker?” Please share a story or example for each.
What does it take to be a highly effective public speaker? To be a highly effective public speaker one must have an intricate knowledge of their subject matter. It is easier to speak on subjects that you know well.
How can you improve your public speaking skills? The best way to improve your public speaking skills is to speak on every occasion possible for practice. Speaking in small social gatherings, at church services, or in work settings are good options.
Practicing in comfortable settings with family members or friends is a great way to overcome fear.
What does it take to give a very interesting and engaging public talk? To ensure that your talk is interesting and engaging speak on a subject that has been well researched and tie the information into something that will connect with the audience.
You are a person of huge influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be?
I would start a movement called “Words Matter — Be Intentional with What You Say.” Everyone would be encouraged and taught to think before speaking words that bully, malign, destroy, brow beat, discourage or lie on others.
Is there a person in the world whom you would love to have lunch with, and why? Maybe we can tag them and see what happens!
I would love to have lunch with life coach Lisa Nichols. She is a fantastic story teller and an outstanding coach.
Are you on social media? How can our readers follow you online?
I love that I get to keep changing and evolving my work. I never worry about finishing because there’s always something else to be done, or an interest to explore.
As a part of our series about business leaders who are shaking things up in their industry, I had the pleasure of interviewing John T. Carmouche.
John is a multidisciplinary creator, curator, and contributor in the entertainment, lifestyle, hospitality, film, radio and social impact spaces. Originally from Louisiana now residing in Atlanta. A rising force in his own right, committed to bridging the gaps and shining the light on his community through his practices.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we dig in, our readers would like to get to know you a bit more. Can you tell us a bit about your “backstory”? What led you to this particular career path?
The true meaning of a multi hyphenate.. At my core I’m a creator, curator, and contributor. I always try to operate from my most authentic (as well as explorative) self. That place of genuinely being interested in whatever it is that I’m doing. If something is in my mind, Why not? That’s where the foundation of my interest stems from.. the goal was/is to shine the light on the culture, collaborating with like-minded people as well as what lead me to taking the raw version of my influences into a more refined flow, with direction and true substance.
Everything I’ve been involved in has kind of had a natural progression. I’m an observer. So, being introduced to people, places, and things always gave me a space to say — “Yeah that’s cool.. but I can do better.” For most creatives, it’s really just staying committed to that voice inside that told you who you were. Not a blueprint or crash proof path to follow.. keeping the composure, and that light.. until you the process of getting closer to “this feels right” that’s what leads me.
Can you tell our readers what it is about the work you’re doing that’s disruptive?
Disruption to me is the cousin of Intention. With time, I came to realize that being in the rooms was not just for the sake of being there. I understood the value of speaking for and on behalf of the culture I represent. The Creative House is the culmination of all those experiences that have shaped my tastes and world view and enabled me to see my work from a more aligned perspective. Whatever I do, whether it’s a personal project or contributing outwardly, begins there. Through high school and college, I promoted/hosted events, which led to a career in entertainment — First working in radio in my hometown, then Revolt, BET, iHeartRadio, and V.103 Atlanta, among others, while always considering myself an entrepreneur.
Can you share a story about the funniest mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?
All of it. But, that’s the best part. In other words, the opposite of what led us here. Regrets don’t sit well with me, so I take mistakes as they come and keep evolving.
We all need a little help along the journey. Who have been some of your mentors? Can you share a story about how they made an impact?
Yes, of course. I’ve had a few people who have added a real sense of color to my lens. I won’t ever be able to convey my appreciation to them in words that can express what I feel. It doesn’t matter whether it was intended or just a random talk, even watching from afar and saluting them with a “Well done.”
In today’s parlance, being disruptive is usually a positive adjective. But is disrupting always good? When do we say the converse, that a system or structure has ‘withstood the test of time’? Can you articulate to our readers when disrupting an industry is positive, and when disrupting an industry is ‘not so positive’? Can you share some examples of what you mean?
When someone else wins it’s positive in my book. I think the times we’re in right now can create a sense of repetition even though there is disruption and change. Know what your message is or else the waves will water it down. We can do something temporary to gain glory, but there’s no comparison with becoming the real thing and not just the image, I’ve been on both sides of that energy so, I know it well.
Can you share five of the best words of advice you’ve gotten along your journey? Please give a story or example for each.
“Because I felt like it.” — Jean Michele Basquiat. That’s the tweet. [Laughs]
We are sure you aren’t done. How are you going to shake things up next?
I love that I get to keep changing and evolving my work. I never worry about finishing because there’s always something else to be done, or an interest to explore.
Over the last year I’ve found the flow space where I’m less into timelines and more into really doing what is in me, which will feel good to share with other minds soon.
Do you have a book, podcast, or talk that’s had a deep impact on your thinking? Can you share a story with us? Can you explain why it was so resonant with you?
A ton. I’m notorious for deep diving when I find something that resonates, but It’s always worth it.. you can’t fake the funk!
I actually curated a digital archive of most of them, The Maison. As a point of reference. I knew that if the right person came across the collection, they would pick up something.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
That’s a good one. Honestly, Virgil Abloh said — “I’d do anything at the right time, and I would also do things at the wrong time if they felt right.” That’s the energy I’m living on currently — less thinking.. more feeling.
You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. 🙂
Thank you. Easy, “The Art of Living Well.” Prioritizing living a life that feels makes you look forward to Sunday turning into Monday. Especially now, life gets sticky daily. I realized that when if you can’t control what goes on around you, the inside is all yours. Living well is so important to the culture, we deserve it. For a little inspiration, I curated these sounds that kind of illustrate the frequency of remembering it’s in you, not on you!
Meet The Disruptors: Rodney Williams Of SoLo Funds On The Five Things You Need To Shake Up Your Industry
An Interview With Fotis Georgiadis
You need to have a vision to work toward in order to achieve your mission.
As a part of our series about business leaders who are shaking things up in their industry, I had the pleasure of interviewing Rodney Williams.
Rodney Williams is the President and Co-founder of SoLo Funds, the largest community fintech platform for everyday Americans, providing the opportunity to access and grow capital and establish financial independence. Rodney grew up witnessing his loved ones struggling to survive paycheck to paycheck, and has dedicated his career to bringing quality financial services to underserved communities. Prior to co-funding SoLo Funds, Rodney founded LISNR (Visa Backed Fintech) and led the company to over $40M in funding, numerous awards, and partnerships across retail and financial services, and currently serves as the company’s Chairman.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we dig in, our readers would like to get to know you a bit more. Can you tell us a bit about your “backstory”? What led you to this particular career path?
I’m from the kind of place where payday lending spots outnumber McDonald’s two to one. I became best friends with my co-founder, Travis Holoway, and he came from a similar background. We shared stories about how even though we were fortunate to be in a better financial position, too many of our family and friends were still struggling financially in our neighborhoods. We remembered being kids when our parents had bills due on Friday but didn’t get paid until Monday, so the lights would be shut off when we didn’t pay on time. That kind of experience is sadly very common for many Americans, so we wanted to create a solution that gave people a chance and didn’t punish them for being cash-strapped like almost everyone experiences at some point in their lives.
Can you tell our readers what it is about the work you’re doing that’s disruptive?
No one is doing the work we are at SoLo Funds. We are meeting the needs of cash-strapped Americans at this scale and doing it with a structure that offers optionality. We give people the tools they need to make smart decisions about who to loan money to and earn a return on their capital. At the same time, we give borrowers the power to protect themselves and set the amount and repayment date that they can actually manage. It’s unique that you’re able to make those kinds of decisions but SoLo Funds lets users borrow on their own terms. We also recently partnered with ESSENCE, an iconic brand in the Black community, to launch a new lending platform, Ese, built on our technology that brings financial empowerment to Black women.
Can you share a story about the funniest mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?
Of course, there are many mistakes made when you’re first starting out. Something that might seem funny now but definitely was not funny at the time is how many times I’ve accidentally emailed the wrong thing to the wrong person. That happened far too many times when I was early in the journey and I’ve had to learn from those mistakes. It taught me the significance of paying attention to the little things. Every small detail matters. Today, I double and triple-check things significantly to avoid any small miscommunications or mistakes.
We all need a little help along the journey. Who have been some of your mentors? Can you share a story about how they made an impact?
I’ve had many mentors along the way and to be honest, I probably need more. The most notable mentor to me these days, however, is one of my investors, Richelieu Dennis. He’s a successful entrepreneur, operator, and investor and I’ve learned a lot from him both professionally and personally. I’m currently at a place in my life where I believe mentorship means a lot more than just professional growth. I don’t think you get to any level of success without having a ton of mentors and I am always looking for more. I appreciate each mentor I’ve ever had and the lessons they’ve taught me along the way, and know that I’ll continue to learn from them throughout my life.
In today’s parlance, being disruptive is usually a positive adjective. But is disrupting always good? When do we say the converse, that a system or structure has ‘withstood the test of time’? Can you articulate to our readers when disrupting an industry is positive, and when disrupting an industry is ‘not so positive’? Can you share some examples of what you mean?
To truly be a disruptor, there has to be a little bit of both positive and negative disruption. When you’re being disruptive in an industry, you’re usually shifting things from one stakeholder to another. This could be the narrative, the power, the influence, or even the consumer value. What I would say, though, is that you’re also shifting who’s experiencing positive disruption and who’s experiencing it in a negative way. That’s how I see the work we are doing with SoLo Funds. We’re shifting the power from financial institutions to the people, and although the communities we are shifting the power to are experiencing a positive disruption with power being shifted to them, the previous stakeholders, like traditional financial institutions, are experiencing a negative disruption as the power is shifting away from them. So, I do believe in order to be truly disruptive, there needs to be a balance between the positive and negative.
Can you share five of the best words of advice you’ve gotten along your journey? Please give a story or example for each.
1- Appreciation
2 — Self-care
3 — Persistence
4 — Consistency
5 — Vision
These five words of advice I’ve received along my journey all go hand-in-hand. It all starts with appreciation — for myself, my supporters, and my mission. I’ve always had appreciation but I’ve just recently reached a new level where I highly appreciate people who appreciate others and I’ve turned into a protector of those who do not. It’s important to treat people well, in addition to yourself. This leads me to self-care — you can’t make a difference if you’re not taking care of yourself. Additionally, consistency and persistence are similar words of advice, but to me they are different. While consistency is the act of being consistent, persistence is the act of being consistent no matter the obstacle — powering through to reach your goal. Lastly, vision is the one thing that you need in order to continue on. You need to have a vision to work toward in order to achieve your mission.
We are sure you aren’t done. How are you going to shake things up next?
SoLo Funds started as a place for borrowers and lenders to find each other and lift up each other to grow wealth. Next up are several more levers people can pull to improve their financial health, use their financial history to build their buying power, and access more benefits for using SoLo. We are gearing up to host an event introducing the world to SoLo Funds and the work we are doing to bring financial independence to underserved communities. The event will be taking place this August in Los Angeles and we will be hosting industry leaders, community voices, journalists, and some celebrities to learn about the financial issues these communities face and how we can work together to solve them.
Do you have a book, podcast, or talk that’s had a deep impact on your thinking? Can you share a story with us? Can you explain why it was so resonant with you?
As it relates to business, the most notable book that has had a deep impact on my thinking is “The Everything Store: Jeff Bezos and the Age of Amazon” by Brad Stone. As it relates to my own personal growth, “The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom” by Don Miguel Ruiz.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
“My mission in life is not merely to survive, but to thrive; and to do so with some passion, some compassion, some humor, and some style.” ― Maya Angelou
It is a quote that perfectly describes how I would like to live life. It sums me up better than I can sum up myself.
You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. 🙂
Exactly what I’m doing with SoLo Funds. I really believe financial services need real innovation and not just a bunch of buzzwords. When we started SoLo, we went straight to the problem we were most intimate with, which was access to short-term capital. There’s a lot of money that leaves underserved communities and never makes its way back. We wanted to really fix those two things. Conceptually, we are helping shift more power to the people. It’s very disruptive. Each and every day, I really think we’re really making a difference in those communities.
How can our readers follow you online?
You can follow me on Twitter at @rodneybwilliams and SoLo Funds at @solofunds.
This was very inspiring. Thank you so much for joining us!
Adam Oakley of Express Writers On How to Effectively Leverage The Power of Digital Marketing, PPC, & Email to Dramatically Increase Sales
An Interview With Fotis Georgiadis
Humility: Be open to new ideas. There is a wealth of knowledge that can be learned by listening to others. If you ask questions, you will be surprised at what others will share.
Marketing a product or service today is easier than ever before in history. Using platforms like Facebook ads or Google ads, a company can market their product directly to people who perfectly fit the ideal client demographic, at a very low cost. Digital Marketing tools, Pay per Click ads, and email marketing can help a company dramatically increase sales. At the same time, many companies that just start exploring with digital marketing tools often see disappointing results.
As a part of this series, I had the pleasure of interviewing Adam Oakley.
Adam has more than 20 years of experience in executive roles in manufacturing, technology, and professional service businesses. His leadership and management skills, together with transparency and diligence, have earned a reputation as a trusted partner among clients. Further, his experience running marketing for a large manufacturing company and leveraging the new world of SEO in the 2000s brought exponential growth to the business. Since then, he’s served on the leadership team of a global technology provider where he focused on business operations, scaling the worldwide group, and developing the client service model for a $30 million company. Now, he’s brought these skills to Express Writers as the CEO and owner.
Thank you so much for joining us in this interview series! Before we dive in, our readers would love to “get to know you” a bit better. Can you tell us a bit about your ‘backstory’ and how you got started?
I have 20 years of sales, marketing, and operations experience. Back in 2001, I cut my teeth in the early days of SEO and digital marketing. I built Google Adwords campaigns, optimizing landing pages, and wrote keyword-rich press releases to improve rankings. These experiences hooked me on the power of marketing. The effectiveness of content and broader digital strategies is undeniable.
For the last 13 years, I was part of the leadership team that grew a technology consulting agency from less than $500k in revenue to over $30M with 250 employees globally. We focused on hiring the best technology team to deliver exceptional results for our clients. During my tenure, I was fortunate to be responsible for critical business areas, including business development, marketing, sales, operations, and recruiting. I am most proud of helping to build a strong culture that scaled worldwide. Our teams are global, and we make systems that help our people succeed in meeting our client’s goals.
Quality content is close to my heart. I have led corporate rebranding engagements, led website redesigns, designed marketing campaigns, developed industry case studies, and managed expert content creation. I have worked with in-house writers and freelancers and self-created when needed. Quickly I learned you get what you pay for when it comes to content. Having great people, paying well, and setting clear direction are all critical when working on creative projects.
After spending a decade building a world-class organization, owning Express Writers is a perfect fit.
Can you share a story about the funniest marketing mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lessons or ‘takeaways’ you learned from that?
Microsites were a big thing back in the early 2000s. At the time, I was doing marketing for an engineered parts manufacturing company. I went crazy and created over 20 different websites utilizing keyword-rich domains. It took a ton of work and ultimately led to a few of the sites getting blocked by search engines. I learned that even though tracking current trends is important, it’s more important to understand that they work and will support the growth of your brand.
None of us are able to achieve success without some help along the way. Is there a particular person who you are grateful towards who helped get you to where you are? Can you share a story?
I would be here without the support of my wife. Over the last two decades, I have worked countless hours, maintained a relentless travel schedule, and missed many family activities. As a busy educator herself, she has been my biggest supporter. She has been my best sounding board. As I looked at what was next for my career, it was her prodding to explore entrepreneurship through ownership.
I searched for over two years, evaluated hundreds of businesses, and made numerous offers before finding the right opportunity at Express Writers. We have been able to take a good business and are on the path to making it great together.
What do you think makes your company stand out? Can you share a story?
Our commitment to being driven by our quality and people-first is one of the best things about us. We want to develop relationships with the folks we work with and help. Behind the incredible content produced by Express Writers is a group of real people with unparalleled skills. We have our own stories, our own struggles, and our own passions for this work. Collectively, we are inquisitive — the status quo has no place here (although we do stick to the Chicago style guide, unabashedly). We won’t do something just because that’s the way it’s always been done. Instead, we dig in and find new and creative ways to deliver our best.
You are a successful business leader. Which three character traits do you think were most instrumental to your success? Can you please share a story or example for each?
Flexibility: To be effective today as a leader requires the ability to adapt and learn new skills. This is true across every member of a team. As a business owner, embracing flexibility is key. Uncertainty is the new normal, and adaptation is the new black.
When we acquired the business in 2021, I had originally planned (and budgeted) to keep the existing technology platform in place and not make any significant changes until later in 2022. Once we saw the limitation of the platform and the impact on our clients, I knew we needed to make a change. It was not easy, but I am glad we accelerated our technology roadmap.
Approachable: I believe in the power of learning from others. At Express Writers, we have an amazing team with unparalleled skills. Each person has their own stories, their own struggles, and their own passions for work. As I look to the future, keeping our eyes on the people who contribute to our work is of the utmost importance. We aren’t the sum of our daily word output. We’re a collective of creatives who provide something of value, and we welcome others to join us.
One way I draw out learnings is to send a personalized email to everyone we hire. The last thing I ask in the email is feedback on the hiring process. In doing, I have discovered changes that have made our hiring better.
Trust: To run a successful business, it’s imperative to trust the team you build. That means I give my team the space to do their jobs well and creatively. Often, that can look like stepping back and setting clear expectations but knowing my team can handle the projects I give them or that they’re inspired to take on.
Are you working on any exciting new projects now? How do you think that will help people?
Currently, we’re working on an overhaul of our technology platform while focusing on simplifying the client experience. We already believe in the content we create for our clients, and now we want the way they interact with us the most to be just as easy to interact with as talking to a real person. This will help people access content faster and with a better understanding of what they’re getting. This is working in conjunction with marketing efforts we’ve been growing over the last eight months, so more people will be able to find a content solution that can help them manage their needs better.
Ok super. Now let’s jump to the main questions of our interview. As we mentioned in the beginning, sometimes companies that just start exploring with digital marketing tools like PPC campaigns often see disappointing results. In your opinion, what are a few of the biggest mistakes companies make when they first start out with digital marketing? If you can, please share an example for each.
They don’t focus on the quality of the things they produce, and they try to do too much all at once. The best thing you can do for your strategy is to focus on one thing at a time and really nail down how you’re going to do it and what it will look like. Your results are far more likely to be successful the first time. To build on that, quality is key to the content and other marketing materials you produce. Without high-quality, informational content, you won’t bring in an audience that wants to read your work and trusts you. At the end of the day, building trust should be a goal of your content and marketing efforts.
If you could break down a very successful digital marketing campaign into a “blueprint”, what would that blueprint look like? Please share some stories or examples of your ideas.
Before starting any campaign, it is crucial to have a firm understanding of what makes your brand unique. I believe the most powerful type of marketing is high-quality content. This means understanding the steps that have helped others and then making them your own. We’ve got eight steps to a great content strategy.
1. Get Clear on the Purpose of Your Blog
First, you need to know why you’re blogging. If you don’t know why you’re blogging or how you’ll blog, you can’t figure out how your blog will help you reach other goals.
2. Determine Who Your Target Reader Is
If you’ve been in business for a while, then you probably already have a clear picture of your target persona. But if you don’t, you have some work to do before moving forward.
You can get to know readers more deeply with things like surveys or personalized emails to ask questions that help you develop more personalized content.
3. Assign Someone to Write for and Manage Your Blog
If you’re a solopreneur, then blogging tasks will likely fall on your shoulders. But if you’re lucky enough to have a team working alongside you, share some of the various blogging tasks among your team members. You probably have someone with unmatched writing skills and others well-suited for editing and fine-tuning content. If your team isn’t large enough for that, or you’re spread thinner than you’d like, you can outsource content.
4. Decide How Frequently You’ll Post
An important element of your blog content strategy is the frequency at which you post content. Consistency is key because you want to give people a reason to keep coming back to your site. And you do that by providing high-quality, valuable content for visitors to consume.
According to HubSpot, sites that publish 16 blog posts or more a month receive 3.5 times more traffic than those publishing less than four posts. That’s likely because many people will come back to check out every new post. Plus, the more content you publish, the more opportunities to rank in search engine results.
However, it’s understandable that you might not have the resources to publish 16 posts per month. It’s better to ask yourself how many high-quality posts you can commit to each month and make that your goal, instead of the quality of those posts suffering.
5. Conduct Keyword Research to Plan Topics
Coming up with fresh and exciting content ideas is arguably one of the most challenging parts of content creation. Since you may not know what a writer wants to see from you.
At this stage, you already know quite a bit of information about them. You know their interests and their pain points, which is a fantastic starting point. Put yourself in their shoes and think about the topics they’re likely to be Googling. Then, you can use various tools to gauge their popularity.
BuzzSumo is a great tool that allows you to enter a keyword or a domain (like your biggest competitor). It will then show you some of the most popular articles relevant to your search. The Google Keyword Planner is also a popular choice, but there are tons of other free keyword research tools to try.
6. Map Everything Out in Your Editorial Calendar
Once you’ve got some content ideas in mind, it’s time to begin mapping everything out in an editorial calendar. This allows you to create a flow from one piece to the next. Plus, you’ll always know which posts go live and when. It’s much more convenient to have everything planned out this way.
Airtable is a popular choice among content creators, and we’ve used it at Express Writers in the past. These days, we rely on HubSpot to keep our content organized and our team informed.
7. Start Creating Content
You’ve now made it to the all-important step of content creation. This task will either be something you take on yourself or assign to a team member or content agency. Either way, don’t rush the content creation process. Give yourself or your writers ample time to create amazing content.
8. Track and Analyze Your Content’s Success
The final step in your blog content strategy is to do a deep dive into your analytics to see how your content is performing. It’s crucial to see which posts resonate with your audience because it’s a good indicator of what to create more of in the future.
Pay attention to the topics that generate the most traffic. But also, it’s smart to note any other similarities with your top-performing content. For instance, does your audience prefer listicles, infographics, or in-depth how-to guides?
Review your analytics at the end of each month to gain an understanding of which posts are doing well. By doing this monthly, you can make changes and tweak your strategy faster than waiting until the end of each quarter.
Let’s talk about Pay Per Click Marketing (PPC) for a bit. In your opinion which PPC platform produces the best results to increase sales?
We’ve found that platforms like Instagram and Facebook are great for visibility bumps, which can bring in more great leads. For B2B brands, we have found LinkedIn to be a great way to extend our reach and target leadership in industries that are important for our growth.
Can you please share 3 things that you need to know to run a highly successful PPC campaign?
Experts: We have selected partners that are at the top of the industry to help us build out the best campaigns. It’s important to have a team that understands each platform and how to get the most of your budget.
Goals: Set goals for each campaign to guide decisions. Without establishing these in the beginning, paid advertising will not have focus.
Adjust: Never “set it and forget it”. You need to look at the data to see what’s working. It takes time to understand if each campaign is delivering on your goals.
Let’s now talk about email marketing for a bit. In your opinion, what are the 3 things that you need to know to run a highly successful email marketing campaign that increases sales?
I would say that the first thing to be aware of is that, while you’re working to increase sales, you can’t forget that you’re talking to real people. Your campaign should be valuable to your audience — so are you considering what your offer is and if it’s helpful? And the last thing is understanding how a subject line will impact open rates. When you have a great subject line, your readers understand the value you’re bringing and are more likely to be interested, without that, the email can just languish in someone’s inbox.
What are the other digital marketing tools that you are passionate about? If you can, can you share with our readers what they are and how to best leverage them?
SEO tools are a must. Things like SEMrush and Ahrefs are some of our personal favorites as Express Writers. These are essential for seeing how your online presence grows through keywords.
Additionally, Google Analytics is really helpful for tracking conversions and seeing which pages gather the most traffic on your site.
Here is the main question of our series. Can you please tell us the 5 things you need to create a highly successful career as a digital marketer? Can you please share a story or example for each?
Desire to learn: There is a wealth of information about digital marketing that’s available to everyone. My recommendation is to pick a few topics and go deep. Good places to start are analytics, SEO, and email marketing. Start with online resources and test ideas to learn more about an area. Failing on side projects or tests can be a great way to understand what works and what does not. Even though I got my undergraduate degree in Marketing, I learned the most after I graduated. Continually learning is the key to a long and fruitful career.
Networking: I have found marketers are generous with their time and willing to share with others. There are so many ways to connect with others in the industry. Reach out online with specific questions. Be direct, and you will be surprised how often you will get a response.
Experience: The longer you work on the craft of marketing, the more successful you will be. You will start to see patterns that will help you make better decisions. Trends tend to be cyclical. The longer you’ve been around, the easier it is to spot them and take action.
Luck: This is a powerful thing. Luck could be a new person you meet or a job offer for an exciting role. Do not underestimate the power of luck in your career. I love this quote from Thomas Jefferson, “I’m a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it.”
Humility: Be open to new ideas. There is a wealth of knowledge that can be learned by listening to others. If you ask questions, you will be surprised at what others will share.
What books, podcasts, videos or other resources do you use to sharpen your marketing skills?
Turn the Ship Around by David Marquet had a huge impact on my leadership style. In the book, he advocates for the Leader-Leader model that promotes extreme delegation. After taking charge of a failing submarine, he took drastic steps by giving an unusual amount of authority to members of his crew. It is a great lesson that teams are capable of more, and our job as leaders is to help them see what’s most important.
Thank you for all of that. We are nearly done. Here is our final ‘meaty’ question. You are a person of great influence. If you could start a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. 🙂
In my own life, I have seen the power of travel and working in new countries. International vacations are fun, but working in new places opens you to entirely different ways of thinking. I would like to expose more people to the power of living and working overseas. I love building an online community of people sharing ideas, resources and connecting over the joys of living and working abroad.
How can our readers further follow your work?
You can find us on expresswriters.com. We post to the Write Blog every Tuesday. Or sign up for our newsletter and stay up to date on content marketing trends.
This was very inspiring. Thank you so much for the time you spent with this!
Use language that is inclusive and universal. As society and societal norms change, you want to adapt and not be offensive. I’ve learned not to use gender specific language, and I have learned to know my audience, geographical demographics and more. This is key, as you can lose your entire audience by not using language that is inclusive.
At some point in our lives, many of us will have to give a talk to a large group of people. What does it take to be a highly effective public speaker? How can you improve your public speaking skills? How can you overcome a fear of speaking in public? What does it take to give a very interesting and engaging public talk? In this interview series called “5 Things You Need To Be A Highly Effective Public Speaker” we are talking to successful and effective public speakers to share insights and stories from their experience. As a part of this series, we had the pleasure of interviewing Keith L. Brown.
Keith L. Brown’s Biography: (Known Nationally and Globally as “Mr. I’m Possible, Presidential Lifetime Achievement Award Recipient, Keith L. Brown, knew early on that the mentality of, “I’M POSSIBLE” instead of impossible, would take him far. He has overcome systematic labels of, “Special-Ed,” and, “At-Risk” to become one of the most sought-after Professional Empowerment Speakers of our time. Named a, “World Class Speaker,” by International Speakers Network (ISN), and, “Social Impact Hero,” by, Thrive Global, Keith has served as a, “Client Referral Consultant,” for A&E’s hit series, “Beyond Scared Straight,” and has been a legislative Speech Writer and Liaison since 2000. He is a frequent guest on I-Heart, Sirius, Radio-One and other media outlets on issues ranging from Education, Motivation, Social Justice, Youth and Family Advocacy, Equity, Diversity and Inclusion, and Maximizing one’s Purpose. Keith is also the Lead Coach and Trainer at the “I’m Possible Institute.” His latest book, “Talk I$ Expensive: Communicating Effectively to Expand Your Impact, Influence and Income, dispels the long held belief, “Talk Is Cheap,” and gives readers a fresh perspective, real life scenarios and tangible solutions.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Our readers would love to get to know you a bit better. Can you tell us the story of how you grew up?
I was born in historic Savannah, Georgia and raised in Jamaica, Queens, NY. I grew up in a blended family, with loving, nurturing parents. While my siblings and I were close for the most part, there was foreshadowing in terms of my career path. At family gatherings, I was very vocal and animated, often telling stories to aunts, uncles, and family friends. My older siblings would always tell me to “stop showing off;” in addition, I was labeled “special-ed,” in school, primarily because I talked to much and wanted to give all the answers. Still, I won the Spelling Bee at my school in 4th grade and participated in the city-wide spelling bee. In Junior High School, I won a district wide speak-out contest and in High School, I was on the debate team, in the drama club, was a Horatio Alger award winner for my community service and recitation of “Theme for English B,” by Langston Hughes at an all-borough speech contest. Although deficient in areas, I was still voted “Most Likely to Succeed,” by my peers. I was an athlete (Football, Handball, Bowling, and Wrestling); however, I excelled more in activities that required me to speak. I was active in the Methodist Youth Fellowship at Springfield Gardens United Methodist Church, as well as the Youth Troupe at the Black Spectrum Theatre Company, where my Drama Coach, the late Whitfield Sims Jr. was my mentor and another father-figure. I spent my summers with family members in Savannah, Georgia and in 1985, when one set of my parents moved to Georgia, I remained in NY for my Senior Year, which was very pivotal, as in that one year, I matured exponentially, as I my twin cousins and I became independent as Seniors in High School. I also became a member of the NYU Players Theatre troupe, as a “guest actor.” Growing up in both Georgia and New York helped shaped who I am today. I grew up in close knit communities with friends who are still my friends today. The “village” was real back then, and my gifts and talents were nurtured, despite being labeled and mis-labeled in school. There were dark moments and uncertainty in my childhood too; however, I was resilient and am thankful for my childhood and adolescent years, for the most part.
Can you share a story with us about what brought you to this specific career path?
I must share two. One occurred during my childhood when one of my paternal grandmothers would travel on the Amtrak train with me and encourage me to say speeches in front of the passengers on board. She would remove the cold chicken and sandwiches from the showbox that held them. I would take the shoebox and go from train car to train car saying mini-speeches and the passengers would place coins in the shoebox, which was my first pay as a speaker. While she was my first agent, she and one of my maternal grandmothers, who encouraged me to say Speeches in Vacation Bible School during the Summers, lit the flame of speaking during my childhood.
During the 1998–1999 School Year, I was teaching English, Speech and Drama at East Laurens HS in Dublin, GA and teaching Business English at the Heart of Georgia Technical College (now Oconee Fall-Line Technical College). During the Spring, we had an all-school assembly, with a very good motivational speaker. After school that day at Drama Rehearsal, my gifted thespians, called the “Eastside Players,” kept saying, “You do that every day Mr. Brown.” Little did they know, I was battling internally of whether to remain at the school or pursue another phase of my purpose as a Professional Speaker. They had no idea they were speaking life into my purpose, and although leaving the school was a very difficult decision, I ultimately left that great school, great scholars, and great community, to Educate and Empower nationally and globally. Another defining moment was the night I worked out at a local gym and on my way home, the song “You’re Next in Line For a Miracle,” by Gospel great, Pastor Shirley Caesar, was on the radio. I wept uncontrollably and a 10-minute ride home took over an hour. It was time. I was already speaking part-time around the state and even nationally, during the summer months and weekends; however, I took a leap of Faith at the end of the 1999 School Year and the rest is history.
Can you tell us the most interesting story that happened to you since you began your career?
I’ve had tons of interesting stories happen since I began my speaking career. One that stands out occurred early on in my speaking career. I was the keynote speaker for the McNair Scholars Program at the University of Tennessee. The event was held in a ballroom that was adjoined to another ballroom. When I was done, I noticed an Education Association was having its conference in the other ballroom and something rose in me to network with the attendees. I gave a gratuity to the event staff and asked for an apron, which they gave me. While the Conference attendees were on a break, I proceeded to get on the microphone and announced the following: Everyone please return to your seats; we’re about to resume our program. Everyone started moving towards their seats, even the Conference planning committee members, who were seated up front. When everyone was seated, I went to the microphone again, and began chanting, “G-Double-O-D…J-O-B…Good Job! Good Job!” Everyone joined in and when done, I said, “Give yourselves a hand.” Then I removed my apron, and said, “I am Keith L. Brown, Motivator of the Millennium,” which was before my “Mr. I’m Possible” moniker. I told my story of being labeled special ed and at risk. I then told of how I became an Educator and ultimately a Professional Speaker. Not one person questioned me, and no one asked me to leave the stage. I literally gave a 15–20-minute keynote, and at the end, I had the sound person play the song, “I’ll be there,” by the Jackson Five, which has been my signature closing song most of my speaking career. When I was done, I received a standing ovation. And I sat in the audience, as if I were supposed to be there. I took a huge risk that day, one that could have damaged my speaking career. However, it helped propel my speaking career, as I was invited to speak at schools throughout the Southeast. Nearly 20 years later, I am still connected to this Education Association. That risk reminds me of one of my favorite quotes, “Sometimes we have to go out on a limb, as that’s where all the fruit is.”
Can you share a story about the funniest mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?
It happened in the year 2000, and it wasn’t funny back then; however, it became more and more hilarious through the years. I was hired as keynote speaker for the Georgia School Nutrition Conference. It was my first full year as a professional speaker, and I did not do my research on audience demographics, as many in the audience were elderly women who worked in school cafeterias. Instead of studying the audience members as they entered or getting audience demographics from my client beforehand- I remained backstage until I was introduced. When my name was called, I burst on stage, dancing to a rap song called, “Shake It Fast,” and these school nutrition workers were in shock, as they listened to a song focused on shaking certain body parts. It was downhill from there, and I could not wait to end the most embarrassing moment of my speaking career. If you could have seen the expressions on the hundreds of faces present, you would have balled over in laughter, much like I did years later, after getting over the trauma of the moment. I thought my career was over! However, in 2002, I got another opportunity with the same organization, and I opened with “Celebration,” by Kool and the Gang and “Taking Care of Business,” by Bachman-Turner Overdrive. The crowd loved it, and my speech went very well. The most embarrassing moment is equally the funniest.
None of us can achieve success without some help along the way. Is there a particular person who you are grateful towards who helped get you to where you are? Can you share a story about that?
Of course, I am thankful for my parents, especially my mom, who promoted my gift of speaking and placed me in extra-curricular activities, where I could excel as a speaker. I will, however, focus more on three men who were very instrumental in who I am from the standpoint of living my purpose. I mentioned my Drama Director/Coach, Mr. Whitfield Sims Jr. He used to get order in rehearsals by using the term “17.” I never knew why; however, for the past 28 years, as both an educator and speaker- I use that term in my messages when I want to bring order. In addition, there was Dr. Gerald Deas, one of my mentors at Springfield Gardens United Methodist Church, who started an organization called “The Power of One.” I was the President and he always empowered me to use my gift of speaking on local radio stations in New York, as well as among my peers around the borough of Queens and throughout the city, as an advocate for positive change. Finally, there was Dr. R.L. Stevenson, who was my mentor and Drama Director in the “Players By the Sea,” at my alma mater, THE Savannah State University. He was a no-nonsense individual back then, as well as one of the funniest people I’ve ever met. He was no nonsense when it came to operating in excellence. He demanded his scholars to be top-notch, and he helped shape who I am today as a speaker and servant leader. Dr. Stevenson exposed me and my fellow thespians by ensuring we competed in prestigious theatre competitions nationwide. He wore three-piece suits in 90-degree humid weather and smoked a pipe. He is still one who I greatly admire, respect, and see as a father figure, even though we don’t talk often enough. These three men were my “three wise men,” outside of my family, and their examples at different stages of my life added much value to my life.
You have been blessed with great success in a career path that can be challenging and intimidating. Do you have any words of advice for others who may want to embark on this career path, but seem daunted by the prospect of failure?
Absolutely. Treat daily conversations in small circles like a training ground. Those individuals who desire to pursue professional speaking must know their stage, event or conference is the daily one on one or small group conversations they are having daily. Speaking is a conversation, often had with small to medium to large audiences. In addition, do not operate from a mindset of failure. Operate from a mindset of this being a “calling.” When it is a calling, you don’t operate from a success vs failure mindset; you operate from a mindset of walking in your calling/purpose- and when you do that, you are already succeeding. I would also be bluntly honest and say there will be times when failure occurs; it happened to me at the School Nutrition Speech and others in my career; however, when it’s your calling- you don’t give up; you grow up; you get sharpened; you get a coach who can help guide your calling/purpose; you use your setbacks as lessons to share in your messages; you share your story and be transparent with audiences; finally, do not pursue this path for the applause but for the advocacy; while standing ovations are great; it is far greater to stand for a cause you can passionately share with others, many of whom are thirsting for inspiration and hope in their lives. When you do these, your impact, influence, and income will expand, as will your success and more importantly- your significance.
What drives you to get up every day and give your talks? What is the main empowering message that you aim to share with the world?
I am honestly driven by the opportunity to re-shape the mindset and change the paradigm of the hundreds of thousands of individuals I inspire and empower in person annually. I am driven by the gift I have been Blessed with, to stand before individuals and share my global messages of “not impossible-I’m Possible,” and “Talk Is Expensive,” both of which are my signature messages, and both are liberating and life changing. Both messages, when embraced, can not only shift the lives of individuals I address, but their families and communities as well. I’m driven by the opportunity to share my own story of resilience and the power of overcoming. I am driven by the many tears that flow in my audiences, as I know a purging and cleansing of thought will lead to not just motivation, inspiration, elevation, and education- but most important- implementation. When implementation occurs, lives are changed for the better. I am driven by an inner drive to change the world for the better by using my voice, the same voice that sat in Special-Ed classes yet excelled as a Speaker and Writer in all my years in School. Finally, I am driven by knowing I am a solution for so many who feel there are no solutions. This is my purpose, and it drives me daily. I desire for the entire World to know, their goals, dreams and visions are “not impossible,” but I’m Possible. The message of “I’m Possible,” is so liberating, as it empowers individuals to pursue their dreams and goals and take accountability for their own path to purpose. With that in mind, it is essential my listeners know, “Talk Is Expensive,” meaning their words can either positively affect or infect their present and future. While actions may speak louder than words; it is the WORDS that move people to action.
You have such impressive work. What are some of the most interesting or exciting projects you are working on now? Where do you see yourself heading from here?
I am very excited about promoting the “Talk Is Expensive” book nationally and globally; it is already required reading in many schools and institutions of higher learning for freshmen. I am also excited about expanding our “Fathers not farther,” program, which aims to coach/train dads on how to effectively Reflect, Respect, Protect and not Neglect their children, while giving them the tools to be fathers who are connected to their inner emotions, which can lead to better mental health. We also work with young fathers, who may not be equipped to be an effective dad. I am also very passionate about expanding our coaching program and assisting those who have a serious desire to speak professionally. Finally, I am excited about expanding my gift of speaking by taking it to more aspects of the entertainment industry, offering more positive images that can be just as exciting as the many negative images on television.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
My favorite life lesson quote is an original one: “Don’t wait for opportunity to knock; leave the door open so it can come right in.” I never waited on opportunity to knock; I left the figurative door open by networking with everyone I met. To this day, I never meet a stranger. I speak to everyone, which often opens opportunities for me. If I waited for opportunity to knock, I may have missed out on speeches and other opportunities to enhance my purpose and enhance the lives of others.
Ok, thank you for all that. Here is the main question of our interview. What are your “5 Things You Need To Be A Highly Effective Public Speaker?” Please share a story or example for each.
Enthusiasm- If you desire to inspire youth and young adults for example- you must have enthusiasm for your craft and your message. While you don’t have to run around the arena or building like I typically do, your audience must feel your passion and see your enthusiasm, which will in turn make them more likely to listen to you rather than texting and being on TikTok.
You should have a Story that Inspires and Empowers, and you must master the art of telling it Well. We all have a story, and audiences love to hear from those who tell stories effectively. Your story is not just something to tell; it is a tool that teaches life lessons. I often share my story of going from “Special-Ed to Specialty Speaker,” and it resonates with my audiences, many of whom are in Education settings. When you are an effective storyteller, you will be more relevant to those who are listening. Effective storytellers will open with a story to capture the audience early and end with a story individuals can take with them as they depart.
Audience Engagement is key if you desire to be a highly effective speaker; you may achieve this by doing a call and response, where the audience repeats what you say. You may also be highly engaging by opening your presentation with music, as it is universal; songs such as “Celebration,” “Gonna Fly Now,” from the Rocky Soundtrack, “Ya’ll Ready for This,” from the Space Jam Soundtrack, and many others, will get the crowd engaged early. Music will set the atmosphere and get your audience up, moving, and excited about listening to your message. I begin and end my messages with music. I often end with the song, “I’ll Be There,” by the Jackson 5, and I use the song as a symbol of people being there to support each other.
You should be spontaneous and flexible. Do NOT come with a readymade message. Why not? Atmosphere changes. People change during the speech/event. You can have an outline to guide you; however, what happens when one of the people in the audience has on sunglasses and is sitting up front. I cannot predict this and write it in my speech; instead, I may have this individual to stand and say, “I’m wearing these sunglasses on the inside because my future is so bright.” I have done these many times, especially with youth and young adults. I also bring volunteers up during my speech and I do life skills exercises, such as using “Uno Cards,” to show audiences the power of being able to “Reverse,” when going in the wrong direction or avoiding being “skipped in life,” by being prepared for opportunities. My Draw Four is typically having audiences repeat 4 affirmations that will inspire and empower them.
Use language that is inclusive and universal. As society and societal norms change, you want to adapt and not be offensive. I’ve learned not to use gender specific language, and I have learned to know my audience, geographical demographics and more. This is key, as you can lose your entire audience by not using language that is inclusive.
As you know, many people are terrified of speaking in public. Can you give some of your advice about how to overcome this fear?
With technology being so widespread, one of the best ways to overcome the fear of speaking in public is doing “Live” videos on social media; this will help individuals feel like they are delivering a message to an audience. In addition, when speaking in public- focus some on an area instead of the audience. This will help overcome the fear of speaking in public. Knowing your material is another way of overcoming the fear of speaking in public. When you know your material, you can deliver it with confidence.
You are a person of huge influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be?
As an individual of huge influence, the movement I would inspire that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people would be the movement to “Have the Nerve to Serve.” It takes “nerve to serve,” as we must realize many of those, we serve may not appreciate our service. Still, if “service” and “servant leadership” were movements, we would be able to create a culture and climate of caring and rid society of many of its ills. If “Have the Nerve to Serve,” were a movement, we would see a universal shift that would place more emphasis on values rather than valuables, on a “peace of mind,’ rather than a “piece of mine,” on going from merely being human to being humane. Imagine a movement where serving was the rule, not the exception. I’d love to spearhead that movement.
Is there a person in the world whom you would love to have lunch with, and why? Maybe we can tag them and see what happens!
I would love to have lunch with Tyler Perry, not simply because of his celebrity status or the relevant historic work he’s done in film and television; I would like to have lunch with him to hear his story and how he was able to transform pain into purpose and trauma into a trailblazing career. I would love to listen to him elaborate on how many of his female characters are symbols for and embody women in his family who were resilient and overcame being “invisible” in many instances. In many respects, I believe my own mother, a compassionate woman with a nurturing spirit, who taught school for over 45 years, prior to be diagnosed with Alzheimer’s disease, was somewhat “invisible,” as well, in many aspects of her life, as are many African American Women. While Trailblazing Tyler and I would talk about the Fine Arts, Theatre, Film and so forth- at the core of our lunch would be how this multi-media mogul, almost gave up on his dreams, and one sold out show, turned a “dream deferred,” into a global vision realized.
Are you on social media? How can our readers follow you online?
Your readers may follow me on:
Twitter via keithlbrown1911,
Instagram: keithlbrown_;
Facebook: keithlbrown/mriampossible;
TikTok: keithlbrown_ and;
via the web: keithlbrown.com.
This was so informative, thank you so much! We wish you continued success!
Collaboration — it’s not working together, that’s teamwork. It’s not aligning and helping each other, that’s coordination and cooperation. It’s not engaging with lots of people, that’s networking. Collaboration is about working out loud, just like scientists did in times of old to solve big complex mathematical equations. Sending their thoughts and insights to each other until together they solved the problem.
As a part of our series about business leaders who are shaking things up in their industry, I had the pleasure of interviewing Dr. Tammy Watchorn.
Dr Tammy Watchorn trained as a scientist before moving into the complex landscape of healthcare to lead change. After many enthusiastic starts that led to ineffectual results, she slowly began to realise that her hard-won accreditation in the process of change leadership was incomplete. She worked out that the only way to really achieve success was to focus on people first and not process. She learned to change how people worked from within the complex healthcare system without drawing undue attention, under the radar from those who were resistant to any change whatsoever. By using stealth-like “ninja” moves that focused on the people who were blockers and “naysayers” she was able to create a momentum of small but significant disruptions that led to some incredible outcomes.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we dig in, our readers would like to get to know you a bit more. Can you tell us a bit about your “backstory”? What led you to this particular career path?
I started my working life as a life-sciences scientist, but I found I was far too impatient for the job. I got bored while I had to wait for cells to grow only to find the experiment hadn’t worked. I knew I wanted to do something that added back and gave real value and fast and so I moved into the National Health Service in the UK to lead projects and programs that would improve patient services and access to care. Being both impatient and easily bored I kept looking for new challenges and difficult things that required new thinking and a little disruption — this meant I moved from department to department frequently. Finally, they bestowed on me the grand title of “Head of Innovation”. There was little by way of objectives other than an instruction to “go forth and innovate”. I could easily have turned the role into a dull procurement exercise of buying trendy and shiny new gadgets and widgets that everyone “ohhh’d” and “ahhh’d” over but would never adapt to or even use. But that isn’t my style. Instead, I decided to use it as an opportunity to shake things up and to focus more on the how and not the what. I felt that it was the how we did things and how we worked that really needed disrupting. We needed innovation to shift us from a slow grinding bureaucratic, hierarchical and process driven organisation to an energised curious group of people who could respond to the needs of the service and patients at speed. Once we had a better way of how to work, we would then find the gadgets and widgets that might help these new services and would be ready to adopt them with open arms.
Can you tell our readers what it is about the work you’re doing that’s disruptive?
One of the biggest disruptive moves I made (and continue to make within organizations) was the introduction of a completely new way of working. I didn’t do what you’d expect and find some “amazing” software that would overnight magically transform us and push it as a big system rollout to change the culture, something that would typically take three years to do only to find out no one used the system! Instead, I focused on quiet, but determined, stealth or ninja-like moves that helped individuals and teams to lead their own small disruptions. I wanted to create a movement with momentum.
I had to persuade people to work differently. I had to provide education on how to do this. And I was in a risk-averse culture where people were scared to experiment in front of each other. So how was I to achieve this? By luck I happened upon a sandpit where I could get people to learn, try out new things and get real work done out of the glare of colleagues’ disapproving stares.
One of my biggest and most successful ninja moves was to lure people/teams, one at a time, into a three-dimensional virtual world where we could work differently without people in the real world seeing and criticizing. QUBE was created for executive education. This meant that learning new methods and working collaboratively were not just easy but the default. There was a culture you dropped into that was inclusive open and curious and people were empowered to participate autonomously. There was a library of People Engagement Tools that provided a ready “how to” for every objective from planning to decision making. This was supported by whiteboards, bean bags and sticky notes. Unlike normal virtual solutions each person was represented by a colourful, boxy avatar. Your avatar could walk around the rooms usually talking and sharing ideas as you would in the most effective and amazing innovative cultures you can imagine.
I did this long before Covid and the onslaught of Zooms or Mural boards and at a time when Video conferencing was still only used as a last-minute solution that most couldn’t access or work out how to use it even if they did have access. People assumed the only way to collaborate was to be there and that meant for many clinical staff an awful lot of time wasted traveling around the country. My disruptive ninja move was to take them team-by-team, project-by-project, bringing them into this new disruptive space and teaching them new ways to work. I quickly realized we could:
Do things much more quickly and without the need to travel delivering the same outcome in 60% of the time.
Be collaborative in the true sense by “working out loud” within teams and with stakeholders in a psychological safe space that encouraged diversity of thinking.
Learn how to use new world tools that shifted us from bureaucratic project management processes to focusing on what we needed to do and engaging stakeholders as individuals to get them on board with the change.
Put our new learning straight into practice to get the outcomes we desired.
Have much more fun doing what we were doing and laughing more than ever. Work suddenly became much more enjoyable. (Often people working on QUBE from their main physical office would be told off by line managers for “being too happy and laughing too loud!”.)
It was so effective people quickly wanted to learn how to facilitate working in this space so they could start to deliver all their projects this way. Team by team behaviors, cultures and ways of working began to change without any “big” mandate and without any of the old-school managers really noticing what we were up to. It therefore became sustainable, easy to grow and was “sticky”. It worked so well disrupting from within that I went off to support other organizations in doing the same and haven’t looked back.
Can you share a story about the funniest mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?
I remember one event we designed for all senior managers in the old-world days. The CEO wanted us to deliver something on collaboration which as an organization we weren’t good at. We were good at inviting others to hear our ideas and then we would expect them to go off directly and implement them. The event format was: pose a question, let teams discuss, then feedback the key points from a flipchart. Everyone knew what was coming and found it dull. No one ever did anything afterwards so it was pointless.
A few of us got together and decided to disrupt the format. We thought it would be a really good idea to design a lighthearted simulation exercise that would hopefully lead to individual insights that could then be put into practice. The exercise revolved around killer wasps escaping from an exploding volcano creating a national emergency. We set the scene with a video and then put managers into teams representing all the key organizations that would need to collaborate to respond to this emergency. What could go wrong we thought … it will be fun, different to the norm and they’ll get lots of insights and “a-ha” moments.
During the session they collected data having a choice of tweets, scientific data or newspaper headlines. Oddly they all pretty much chose tweets that were intentionally funny but useless and weirdly they all got pretty angry at the lack of usefulness of the tweets. At one point we introduced a vaccine for the killer wasp stings. The scientists in the room argued that we wouldn’t be able to create a vaccine that quickly but compromised on an antidote and were more than happy to accept the live volcano and giant wasps. And when it came to collaborating with each other they just didn’t. They hid data rather than sharing it, some turned it into a competition to see who could “win”, some just shouted, nay screamed, at other teams saying they should tell them what to do. Pretty much all of them, despite being senior managers and leaders decided that in such an event they would be “told what to do” by those really in charge. They were angrier than the angry giant killer wasps. It was a disaster. It was a complete disaster. Both us and the CEO were wide-eyed and dumbfounded.
But what was learning for me? First, never, ever, ever try and be just smart and funny as you could well end up with egg on your face and generate more problems than you started with. Our exercise essentially held a mirror up to the managers, showing them up for what they were. It wasn’t clever or fun. It had the opposite effect of what we’d hoped for. Second, before doing anything like this or any big decision think through what will or might happen next. If I’d done that, we likely wouldn’t have run the session. Third, imagine you are them and what you, as them think of the idea, what do you like or not like and build this into your idea to make it better. And finally work through what they might experience, feel and do next at each stage of the process before testing it on the grumpiest and most stubborn people you know. Developing disruptive ideas with this data and feedback will build a disruptor that delivers rather than just disrupting for disrupting’s sake.
We all need a little help along the journey. Who have been some of your mentors? Can you share a story about how they made an impact?
I’ve been very lucky with mentors — possibly as I have the philosophy “if you don’t ask you don’t get” so when I meet or come across inspiring people I don’t hesitate to make contact. Sir Tim Smit (of the Eden Project) was one such person and he’s supported me over the years on a number of occasions. I was also lucky to have a lot of female leaders in the healthcare sector support me as I tried these ninja moves under the radar. They gave me the confidence and silent “nod” to keep trying to do what I was doing even though I was swimming against the tide.
But the biggest mentor, without doubt is Professor Eddie Obeng who completely changed how I approached and did things. He came to a leadership event and I was hooked by his approach. I then started using his teaching (and QUBE) to make the disruptive shifts I thought were needed. He was so generous with his time and mentoring despite being a high-demand thought leader. A year or so later I heard he was in town and arranged to meet for dinner and that, as they say, was that. I told him I wanted to do more of this great work and he invited me on to some training and a few months later I was working with him and his team helping others do what he’d done for me. Life-changing stuff. And then a few years later, when I was saying how much I’d love to write a book he told me to NEVER write a book as it burns so much time. But I like a challenge. And so I wrote a book which is out in August 2022 called The Change Ninja Handbook a multiple-choice story about disrupting by stealth from within. Eddie really is the ultimate Change Ninja though.
In today’s parlance, being disruptive is usually a positive adjective. But is disrupting always good? When do we say the converse, that a system or structure has “withstood the test of time”? Can you articulate to our readers when disrupting an industry is positive, and when disrupting an industry is “not so positive”? Can you share some examples of what you mean?
I’m a big fan of the #BeMorePirate movement which is about disruption and rule breaking, with the caveat that we don’t break rules that make sense and have purpose, but we do break rules that are archaic, make no sense and actually prevent good stuff happening. I think that’s what good disruption is about and what is needed within big organizations. The healthcare sector is a good example of something that really needs this type of disruption and rule breaking. Irrelevant of country and how health services are delivered we are in a time of unprecedented demand as we live longer, but have never been more unhealthy (physically and mentally), and have more potential cures and treatments than are reasonably affordable. Not only that, but often the workforce to deliver these services is in short demand. The National Health Service in the UK is often lauded as an exemplary model in that it is free at the point of care for everyone. This is a great value to have for a health service and I totally agree with it. But the underlying structure and delivery model is nearly 75 years old and we live in a very different world now. There are a great many people, like me, trying to change things from within, and this can achieve very good results but the processes and bureaucracy get in the way time after time. A great example is video consultations for patients. They work and save time but were only available in remote and rural settings. Trying to expand this to urban areas just never got through the decision-making bodies … until Covid. Then it was a necessity. And it works and works well. But the rules prevent these types of relatively obvious solutions being scaled up. These are the rules that need breaking but the reality is the entire system needs to be disrupted and designed from scratch based on how we now live.
Can you share five of the best words of advice you’ve gotten along your journey? Please give a story or example for each.
Invisible leadership — you don’t need to take the credit for something if it’s achieving the outcomes you seek. Some of my best outcomes I’ll never be remembered as leading. Some of my ex-colleagues might balk at the idea I lead some of the work. But instead of shouting about my ideas and ploughing ahead I would instead find someone who could champion it. Someone who already had kudos that people would naturally listen to while I did the work behind the scenes that would credit to them. I knew and my close colleagues knew and that was enough.
Smart failure — allowing yourself to get things wrong and learning from it rather than passing it off as failure. It’s definitely the best way to learn and create new neural pathways. The example I gave earlier around the workshop with the killer wasps was definitely a failure in terms of what we’d hoped to achieve, but I learned so much about how I needed to really think about the participants, how to design products, and how to really get people to properly learn in a safe way.
Collaboration — it’s not working together, that’s teamwork. It’s not aligning and helping each other, that’s coordination and cooperation. It’s not engaging with lots of people, that’s networking. Collaboration is about working out loud, just like scientists did in times of old to solve big complex mathematical equations. Sending their thoughts and insights to each other until together they solved the problem.
Ignore the doubts — they are just thoughts to stop you doing what you need to do. You don’t need to know what will happen next. You don’t need all the answers. But if it feels right trust it and ignore the doubts. Sure, you can de-risk an unknown as much as possible, have a contingency plan if needed but trust your instincts, ignore the doubts and go for it. Just make sure you engage the right people before you do. Leaving a nice paid job where I had autonomy and where I was making progress in a system that was crying out for these disruptions but where the system did everything to stop me was a hard decision and I was full of doubts about an unknown future. But I instinctively knew I could do much, much more by leaving and doing it from the outside in where I was no longer party to the rules and regulations. It felt right, the doubts were just noise, I trusted that it would work out and it really did.
Curiosity — stay open and curious. Don’t limit yourself to one idea or one train of thought. If you keep all your options open you will discover new things, new people and new thinking that you might never have come across if you are single minded with a specific plan. It is likely I never would have come across the neuroscience elements of what is now a large part of what I deliver for change managers in healthcare without that curiosity. It also taught me how to “hack my brain” quite easily which means I now see everything, even the biggest of crisis, as a potential opportunity for something new and interesting
We are sure you aren’t done. How are you going to shake things up next?
I really feel I’ve just got started. I now have a complimentary kitbag of tools to get others started on their journey to disrupt and #BeMorePirate. I focus on new ways of working (on QUBE), Lego Serious Play for whole systems thinking and Neuroscience for leading change to help individuals and teams shake things up a bit. The Change Ninja Handbook, I think, is a start of what next in regard to this stealth-like approach for disruption and I’m developing 3D interactive masterclasses and also have the idea to develop a board game. If I can build confidence and provide the right tools and support for small disruptions, and do this across organisations starting many small fires then a movement is created that can, Ninja-like, disrupt from within without anyone noticing how or what you did. And the outcomes will speak for themselves. I might not change the entire healthcare system in the UK but I’m having a jolly good crack at it!
Do you have a book, podcast, or talk that’s had a deep impact on your thinking? Can you share a story with us? Can you explain why it was so resonant with you?
I know I’ve mentioned Eddie Obeng a lot but his World After Midnight video and TED Talk really inspired and motivated me at the start of this journey. It made me realize it wasn’t just me that thought everyone else was mad.
My thinking wasn’t wrong. And it gave me the courage to learn how to change things and then the tools to help me challenge things in the right way. I didn’t always get It right but there was a lot of very smart failure.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
I love to run. I began when I was older. I now also do wild swimming and stay relatively fit. I remember before I did my first half marathon stating firmly that I couldn’t do it. And a friend disagreed replying, “You can’t do it yet!”.
Knowing that there is more possibility than you can imagine from growing is very heartwarming.
You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. 🙂
Shake up the healthcare, pharma and food industry. The last two drive many of the issues our healthcare services are facing. The food industry is continuously pushing a poor diet, particularly in the west. The pharma industry is continuously pushing pills to fix us and when they make us unwell more pills to counteract the side effects. We have lost, at least in the West, at a societal level the energy, knowledge, motivation to keep ourselves well and instead use the health service to patch us up rather than fixing the root cause. We have outsourced our health to someone else.
If we could create a movement on a big enough scale to redesign services that were aimed at keeping us well, rather than patching us up, there would be far less demand on health services meaning the model would be more sustainable and those that did need treatment for unpreventable illness or accidents would get the best treatment possible.
It’s a massive change but with enough small fires burning, and a growing band of change ninjas to disrupt from within it might just be possible to accelerate it in the right direction.
Makers of The Metaverse: Sebastian Hohenberg Of McCombs School of Business On The Future Of The VR, AR & Mixed Reality Industries
An Interview With Fotis Georgiadis
Business sense. There are many great ideas and inventions out there. However, only when a great invention and a good marketing plan come together, the innovation will diffuse in the market. This goes back to Everett Rogers, whose book I mentioned earlier, but it is true within the XR industries like never before: marketing can separate a “nice gimmick” from a profitable innovation and vice versa.
The Virtual Reality, Augmented Reality & Mixed Reality Industries are so exciting. What is coming around the corner? How will these improve our lives? What are the concerns we should keep an eye out for? Aside from entertainment, how can VR or AR help work or other parts of life? To address this, we had the pleasure of interviewingSebastian Hohenberg.
Assistant Professor of Marketing Sebastian Hohenberg is a marketing strategy researcher with The University of Texas at Austin’s McCombs School of Business, who strives to solve essential business problems related to the digital transformation of business and organic growth. Hohenberg’s research has been published in the leading marketing outlets, such as the Journal of Marketing, the Journal of Marketing Research, and the Journal of the Academy of Marketing Science. His most recent publication presents the first empirical study on virtual reality in marketing and one of the first articles on virtual reality in business research. In this study, Hohenberg and his co-authors examine how virtual reality can improve the new product development of durable producers.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we dig in, our readers would like to get to know you a bit. Can you tell us a bit about your backstory and how you grew up?
Sure, I would love to — thanks so much for having me! Today, I live in Austin, Texas, but I am not originally from the U.S. In fact, I grew up in a mid-sized city in the northern part of Germany, called Hannover. While I completed most of my education in Germany, I have always been able to follow my (other) big passion: traveling. As a student, I spent a year abroad in South East Asia as well as in the United States (Detroit, Mich.). As a young scholar, I was able to participate in a visiting scholar program in Houston, Texas. In addition, I have enjoyed multiple backpacking tours to various parts of the world, like Myanmar, Japan, China, Australia, and Mexico‚ to name a few. I love to explore new things and I guess that is the common ground of traveling and research: searching for new insights, and new ways of doing things — these are the most exciting activities for me.
Is there a particular book, film, or podcast that made a significant impact on you? Can you share a story or explain why it resonated with you so much?
This is a tough question. Reading is an important part of my job and there are many books that come to mind. However, one book that had a particularly deep impact on me is “The Diffusion of Innovations.” In this book, Everett M. Rogers explains how new ideas manifest in innovations and spread via channels over time. This book made me realize how important marketing is for innovations: a new and better technology is not enough for an innovation to succeed in the market. In fact, the book is full with vivid case studies of successful new products, but also with descriptions of great technological innovations that failed. It was after reading this book that I wanted to get a Ph.D. It was this book that got me specifically excited about the interface of marketing, innovations, and new technologies.
Is there a particular story that inspired you to pursue a career in the X Reality industry? We’d love to hear it.
I became interested in virtual, augmented, and mixed realities in 2015. I had just started my first academic job as an assistant professor at the University of Mannheim in Germany. As such, I also became involved in the training of Ph.D. students. One day, we interviewed a rather unconventional candidate, Nathalie, who did not check all the boxes at first sight: she did not come from a major research institution like most candidates and, importantly, she did not have a background in marketing, but instead had focused on computer sciences and international trade in her studies. But I saw something special in her personality and I was intrigued by her passion for one new technology that was on the rise, but I did not know much about at that time: virtual reality! However, in 2015 there weren’t many use cases for this new technology and it was very difficult to study research questions related to VR and marketing. Therefore, we ended up creating our own use case for Nathalie’s dissertation: a virtual reality forecasting approach for new durable products. Nathalie eventually crafted a very remarkable Ph.D. thesis on this topic, and the article based on her first dissertation essay was recently published by the prestigious Journal of Marketing. My collaboration with Nathalie during her Ph.D. studies was clearly my inspiration to start working with the XR industry.
Can you share the most interesting story that happened to you since you began this fascinating career?
Sure! Interestingly, this story begins with rejection. For our VR research project, my co-authors and I thought that we had the perfect business case: we would provide durable producers with user experience data for a new product and a pre-launch sales forecast. Such information is very difficult to obtain and market research companies can charge substantial amounts of money for such data — we were going to offer this for free. In exchange, we merely requested a 3D model of an innovation from the firm’s pipeline and a few market figures that serve as inputs for our VR forecasting tool, such as the planned advertisement spending. Despite this clear value add, it took us almost a year to find a suitable collaboration partner. This issue was mainly due to the skepticism towards VR we encountered: senior managers of leading durable producers described VR as a gimmick or a toy without many use cases for non-tech industries. Of course, we knew that this was fundamentally wrong! This is why we decided to actually engage even more in our use case development and worked even harder. Today, our research clearly shows that VR creates value for non-tech industries, right now, and not just in a distant time. After all, we were able to turn rejection into innovation!
Can you share a story about the funniest mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?
I started in tech as an intern for a consulting company. Because our partner had an important steering committee call, she asked me if I could drive her BMW, while she would lead the call. Guess what happened: with the entire project leadership team on the phone, I hit a parked car, so that one of our exterior mirrors literally fell off. I was really ashamed and afraid of the consequences: financially, as I was still a student and far from being able to afford a BMW or its spare parts, but more so: personally — for sure, I was expecting substantial portions of gossip and smack talk. However, what actually happened was very different, namely: empathy. After the incidence, many colleagues reached out and encouraged me to cheer up and not to worry. In the end, this crash may have even worked to my advantage. Had I not hit the car with the entire leadership team as live witnesses, I wouldn’t have met so many important people. It took me several years since then (and hearing Brené Brown in Austin) to learn the real lesson from this mistake though: vulnerability connects you with others and can even spark innovation! People aren’t looking for perfection, but for someone to work with who dares greatly.
None of us are able to achieve success without some help along the way. Is there a particular person who you are grateful towards who helped get you to where you are? Can you share a story about that?
I could not agree more! Of course, I owe a deep debt of gratitude to many academics, such as my Ph.D. advisor Christian Homburg and my colleagues and mentors, especially Texas McCombs Marketing Professors Leigh McAlister, Vijay Mahajan, Raji Srinivasan, and Andy Gershoff. However, I am most grateful to my wife Anne. We have known each other for over 15 years and have been married for five of them, and Anne has been the biggest support in my career. First, she encouraged me to follow my passion and pursue an academic career — which is a very generous move, because academic careers come with strings attached, such as geographic flexibility (e.g., it is very unlikely that the university in your favorite place to live has an open position when you are searching for a job). Second, when I had the opportunity to move to UT Austin, a top10 research institution, Anne gave me the chance to accept this dream job, although she had her own career. As soon as I showed her how lovely and refreshingly weird Austin is, she actually embraced the change and moved with me to Texas. Her ability to adapt and take on new experiences is truly inspiring!
Are you working on any exciting new projects now? How do you think that will help people?
Just a few weeks ago, we started exploring an interesting idea around VR and the role of space. In particular, we are trying to discover how VR can help to make workspaces more satisfying and productive. I think that this project can have high impact because the future of work will arguably take place in the metaverse, where space can more easily be configured and customized.
Ok super. Thank you for all that. Let’s now shift to the main focus of our interview. The VR, AR and MR industries seem so exciting right now. What are the 3 things in particular that most excite you about the industry? Can you explain or give an example?
Fully immersive experiences. Even today, VR, AR, and MR technologies provide high levels of immersion, mainly leveraging head-mounted displays and motion controllers. Due to this immersion advantage, social VR apps, like vSpatial, Horizon Workrooms, VRChat, and ShapesXR are on the rise. Just imagine what these simulations will be able to accomplish once body suits and other highly immersive equipment become more available. To my mind, fully immersive experiences have the potential to revolutionize social life.
User experience perfection. VR, AR, and MR provide fully digital user journeys and, thus, all user activity can be tracked automatically. This data advantage offers huge opportunities for businesses aiming to improve user journeys through utilizing the rich diagnostic information that VR apps and equipment can provide.
The unexpected. As you mentioned, the XR industries are so exciting now and attract the smartest and brightest people from all over the world. Did you know for example that about a fifth of Meta’s employees are now working on VR and AR? Or that Accenture just invested approximately $30 million to equip its consultants with 60,000 Meta Quest 2 headsets? Likewise, Microsoft is investing billions of dollars in virtual-reality soft- and hardware, too. To me, one of the most exciting things about XR is this accumulation of brain power and new technology that will likely develop use cases and innovations that we can’t even imagine today.
What are the 3 things that concern you about the VR, AR and MR industries? Can you explain? What can be done to address those concerns?
Some of the VR, AR, and MR advantages also bear substantial risks, which may offer some cause for concerns:
Security. One of the biggest use cases for VR, AR, and MR technology will be the metaverse. However, much of the metaverse currently feels like the Wild West. For instance, did you hear that a woman’s avatar in the new Horizon Worlds platform was recently sexually assaulted? In addition, there are more and more reports of metaverse fraud, such as phishing scams, identity theft, and money laundering. These issues will amplify unless security leaders have innovative ways of enforcing cybersecurity. Without destroying the momentum around XR technologies, we will need more and better regulation in the metaverse.
Social cohesion. While some segments of society get really excited about these new technologies, others remain highly skeptical and haven’t even tried VR goggles. Arguably, there is a risk of a societal divide, much bigger than with the advent of computers and the internet. Addressing this risk is essentially on all of us: we must try to enable as many people as possible to access and master these new technologies. Universities, like UT Austin, can take a key role in this mass education task.
Responsible usage. From my own experiences with XR technologies, I can honestly say: there is a risk of losing track of the real world. When I am in virtual reality, I get transported to a different world. Sometimes, it requires my wife’s gentle taps on my shoulder to make me aware of the actual time and reality. There are many dystopian stories, such as “Ready Player One,” that focus on this threat and I believe that the risk is real. However, I also feel that it is still the right time to set clear boundaries, especially with our children in mind.
I think the entertainment aspects of VR, AR and MR are apparent. Can you share with our readers how these industries can help us at work?
VR, AR, and MR can effectively create social presence between individuals that are physically miles apart. The COVID-19 pandemic, with its lockdowns and social distancing, has reminded us of how crucial personal interactions are for our work and well-being. Separately, the globalized and hectic nature of today’s existence still restricts our ability to be physically close with our co-workers and friends. Thus, by creating social presence in a digital environment, XR technologies can help us to immerse ourselves effectively with others in the absence of physical presence and hence: make our work more efficient, while retaining its worth and effectiveness.
For instance, I have recently attended a high quality, fully immersive research presentation from my office in Austin through VR via Altspace. The presenter was actually in Europe but I could still be present and without the major time commitment related to international travel. Even very traditional B2B and manufacturing companies are starting to realize these potentials. For example, I have seen a VR exposition of a producer of packaging machinery. I have also talked to a B2B company that is experimenting with initial operations of their machines through a VR-AR solution. I do not think that VR will or should replace travel and in-person meetings entirely, but I think the technologies will help us to better allocate our time and resources.
Are there other ways that VR, AR and MR can improve our lives? Can you explain?
As a professor, I see one more focal area of life — in addition to work and leisure — that will benefit greatly from these technologies, resulting in a very tangible improvement of our lives: education. Even today, leading business schools like Texas McCombs offer highly interactive online courses at all levels and across most subjects via Zoom. Digital course offerings have the advantage that they are a) more flexible and b) more affordable than in-person offerings, hence contributing to the democratization of education. However, what is currently missing from these formats is much of the social component, such as networking or even the usual hallway small talk. Well, this is different with education through XR technology! XR technology is a unique chance to leverage the advantages of digital education, without the disadvantages of education via Zoom.
What are the “myths” that you would like to dispel about working in your industry? Can you explain what you mean?
Especially when meeting with some of the more traditional business leaders, I often hear something along these lines: “VR will have a great future someday, no doubt. However, today the technology is just not advanced enough,” or that “There aren’t any feasible use or business cases.” This is clearly a myth! I mentioned our research on VR forecasting earlier as well as the recent VR solutions related to machine operations, services, and trainings. All of this is evidence: VR, AR, and MR have real life impact, not tomorrow but already today!
What are your “5 Things You Need To Create A Highly Successful Career In The VR, AR or MR Industries?”
I would like to take a broader approach to this question. In particular, I would like to draw your attention to 5 Things You Need to Create A Highly Successful Career in the Time of VR, AR, and MR (in any industry):
Business sense. There are many great ideas and inventions out there. However, only when a great invention and a good marketing plan come together, the innovation will diffuse in the market. This goes back to Everett Rogers, whose book I mentioned earlier, but it is true within the XR industries like never before: marketing can separate a “nice gimmick” from a profitable innovation and vice versa.
Technological sense. I am thinking about the business students and managers here. While these individuals may not (yet) work with the equipment and algorithms on a daily basis, they still should be eager to try the newest technology solutions. It is difficult to just imagine some of these immersive experiences. When I give a talk about VR and marketing, one of my first questions is always: who in the audience has tried VR? Then after the talk, I try to get those people who had not tried it before, to test the VR. Using VR, AR, and MR effectively will be a baseline qualification like using computers today. It is time to build everyone’s personal XR skills!
Analytical capabilities. Already today, business analytics are key. Some of the best students from our top universities’ Ph.D. programs get hired by the big tech companies to improve the algorithms and develop new ones. These capabilities will even be more important in the future when VR, AR, and MR reach the mass markets. Eventually, much more data in more dimensions will be available and we will need more, not less, analytics.
Storylining capabilities. The downside of BIGGER data will be that it is even more difficult to make sense of it. What I have observed in recent years is that the capability to put complex analyses and results into a logical sequence becomes increasingly important. In other words, telling a compelling story from the data at hand — this will be even more important in the future.
Relationship building capability. Our social interactions will shift more to the digital world and meetings with our avatars will soon be the rule rather than the exception. However, my recent research shows that some of the classical relationship building strategies, such as building trust, work differently across digital media as compared to the physical world. Yet, building relationships will remain key for success, even in the metaverse, so all of us will need to learn some new approaches related to digital relationship building.
You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. 🙂
I am part of a movement and I hope to inspire students, fellow academics, and managers alike to join me in this mission: the digital transformation of business. Within this realm, a segment that I would like to especially convince is traditional businesses and late adopters. My concern is that similar to the diffusion of the e-commerce or mobile internet many companies we know today will miss the “digital transformation boat” and may disappear. A related concern is that many individuals will miss that boat, too, potentially leading to a notable social divide. From a societal perspective, we should all have an interest that transition happens inclusively without too many individuals getting left behind.
We are very blessed that very prominent leaders read this column. Is there a person in the world, or in the U.S. with whom you would like to have a private breakfast or lunch, and why? He or she might just see this if we tag them 🙂
Christina Raab (Accenture). I was her intern more than 10 years ago and could support Christina for a short time in her endeavors to digitalize the German automotive industry. Now, she is part of Accenture’s global executive leadership team and promotes the digital transformation of entire markets. I would love to talk to her about the opportunities of VR, AR, and MR technologies for manufacturing and B2B companies.
In the U.S.: Jessica Rosenworcel, chairwoman of the Federal Communications Commission. Of course, I have followed the FCC’s endeavors to create better regulation for the big tech giants. I would love to discuss with Chairwoman Rosenworcel how business schools, like at UT Austin, can contribute to creating a user-friendly and safe metaverse. Given the global reach of tech regulation, this meeting could even be together with the chairwoman’s European counterparts, Ursula von der Leyen and Margrethe Vestager.
Thank you so much for these excellent stories and insights. We wish you continued success on your great work!
Thanks so much for having me. I really appreciate the opportunity and look forward to the next stages of the digital transformation journey — these will be exciting times and remember, don’t miss the boat!
Meet The Disruptors: Priya Chopra Of double shot and 1Milk2Sugars On The Five Things You Need To Shake Up Your Industry
An Interview With Fotis Georgiadis
On any given day, you’ll find me sweeping the office floor or packing boxes — basically just doing what needs getting done. Ego has no place in my agency; we’re all here to help one another and uplift the team. I can’t expect anyone else to take on the nitty gritty jobs if I’m not willing to roll up my sleeves and lead by example.
As a part of our series about business leaders who are shaking things up in their industry, I had the pleasure of interviewing Priya Chopra.
Priya Chopra is the founder and CEO of double shot, Canada’s premier globally inclusive talent agency and the partner entity to her PR and marketing firm, 1Milk2Sugars. In launching double shot, Priya envisioned a talent management agency that amplified BIPOC, LGBTQ+ and underrepresented voices and gave them an equal chance to shine. Today, double shot is award-winning and credited as the first talent agency in Canada to make global inclusivity its raison d’etre.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we dig in, our readers would like to get to know you a bit more. Can you tell us a bit about your “backstory”? What led you to this particular career path?
Though I spent the first chapter of my professional life working for high-profile companies, my ambition has always been to build something of my own that challenges convention and reflect my personal values. I’m a self-proclaimed “entrepreneur at heart” and always knew that one day I’d build my own team and be my own boss.
My goal in launching 1Milk2Sugars was to set a new benchmark for client service and creativity in the PR and marketing space. As we mark our 10-year anniversary, I’m incredibly proud of the success we’ve achieved on that front. Our unparalleled level of client care is frequently regarded as our biggest differentiator. It’s an accolade we wear with pride!
But carving out a reputation for exceptional service wasn’t my only objective in starting my own shop. I also set out to create an agency that set a tone of inclusivity and equality I felt was lacking in the industry. I can say with confidence that 1Milk2Sugars is now a market leader in that regard. To date, 42% of our staff identify as BIPOC — a benchmark we’re proud of but know holds space for improvement. Advancing diversity in the PR and digital space is one of our agency’s core values and remains a central focus of our recruitment policy.
That brings us to the present.
I knew there was a lot of insight I could share stemming from my experience developing 1Milk2Sugars and working with some of the world’s top brands and wanted to apply it in a way I knew would benefit underrepresented content creators.
That’s what led to the launch of my most purposeful initiative yet: a globally inclusive talent agency with a mission to uplift BIPOC and LGBTQ+ influencers and connect them with forward-looking brands.
It’s called double shot.
Can you tell our readers what it is about the work you’re doing that’s disruptive?
As the name suggests, double shot is a much-needed jolt for the marketing world. Our agency is doing the important work of making diversity, equity and inclusion the rules of successful brand building rather than the exceptions. And changing an entrenched status quo starts by identifying the problem.
For too long, lifestyle marketing has lacked meaningful representation from BIPOC and LGBTQ+ communities which has contributed to a culture of tokenism and perfunctory symbolism across multiple platforms. Content creators of color have also identified massive pay disparities in the industry between BIPOC influencers and their white counterparts. To this end, a primary focus of double shot is closing this gap and championing influencers from underrepresented communities to help them secure meaningful and fair partnerships with forward-looking labels.
To date, we’ve assembled a thriving roster of 13 BIPOC and LGBTQ+ content creators representing a spectrum of ages, orientations and ethnicities. We’re proud to have teamed up with marquee brands across a range of key verticals, including fashion (Wonderbra, Old Navy, Retimans, Marshalls); food & beverage (Dempster, Stoli Vodka, The Chopped Leaf, M&M); skincare & beauty (Keys Soulcare, Benefit, Organika, CoverGirl, Lancome, CeraVe); tech & home appliances (Telus, Samsung, SharkNinja, Lowe’s) and department retail (The Bay, Walmart, Toys “R” Us). In each case, we’ve equipped our brands with out-of-the-box content creation aimed at diversifying and enriching their digital campaigns.
These examples, while only a snapshot, underscore the raison d’être behind double shot: to inject authentic meaning and value into digital lifestyle marketing while advancing the greater cause of equity, diversity and inclusion in our world.
Can you share a story about the funniest mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?
It’s not a funny story in the traditional sense, but I started my first business way too young which led to seven (long years) of ups, downs…and even more downs after that.
Like I said, not a funny ‘ha-ha’ story but definitely one I can reflect on with a sense of humor and a smile. Now that my current company is thriving, it’s easier to look back on those early days and wonder “what the heck was I thinking?” and actually laugh at myself a bit.
We all need a little help along the journey. Who have been some of your mentors? Can you share a story about how they made an impact?
I didn’t have a mentor per se — at least not at the start of my entrepreneurial journey. I simply didn’t have access to the leaders or coaches who could provide the tools I needed to grow in my chosen career. My upward climb was a solo — and often lonely — journey, to be honest.
If anything, that experience of being largely on my own shaped the leader I am today because it gave me a firsthand look at the lack of access for BIPOC women in the areas of mentorship, career coaching and professional development. It’s a big part of the reason I’m so passionate about mentoring the next generation of young BIPOC female entrepreneurs; I was once in their shoes.
That said, I’m lucky that later in my career I was introduced to mentors and coaches who helped me get over specific hurdles, from operations to business development. I count on their guidance and expertise to this day.
In today’s parlance, being disruptive is usually a positive adjective. But is disrupting always good? When do we say the converse, that a system or structure has ‘withstood the test of time’? Can you articulate to our readers when disrupting an industry is positive, and when disrupting an industry is ‘not so positive’? Can you share some examples of what you mean?
I think the term “disruptive” has been useful in our industry because abrupt change was needed to create a more authentic and inclusive digital environment. My goal, however, is for marketing to evolve beyond the need for disruption as it pertains to D, E & I.
It will be a major sign of progress for our industry when the act of being inclusive is no longer considered disruptive but is instead looked at as a fundamental pillar of successful brand building. That’s what we’re trying to achieve at double shot.
Can you share five of the best words of advice you’ve gotten along your journey? Please give a story or example for each.
I’ve always been taught to never be too big for the small things. It’s a mantra I live by as an entrepreneur that keeps me grounded and humble as I forge ahead in business.
On any given day, you’ll find me sweeping the office floor or packing boxes — basically just doing what needs getting done. Ego has no place in my agency; we’re all here to help one another and uplift the team. I can’t expect anyone else to take on the nitty gritty jobs if I’m not willing to roll up my sleeves and lead by example.
We are sure you aren’t done. How are you going to shake things up next?
Our next focus at double shot will be to uplift emerging BIPOC influencers and connect them with opportunities they might not otherwise have access to at this early stage of their journey.
I know firsthand how challenging it can be to break into a career when you lack access to the resources, networks and capital to get started. In addition to our more established roster of talent, we want to support those creators who are just starting out by mentoring them and putting them in front of brands as marketing opportunities arise.
Growing representation in lifestyle marketing is at the heart of double shot’s mission and we want to dismantle as many barriers as possible for as many creators as possible towards making that happen.
Do you have a book, podcast, or talk that’s had a deep impact on your thinking? Can you share a story with us? Can you explain why it was so resonant with you?
I’m a devoted listener of Jay Shetty’s podcast, On Purpose. I love how he applies the wisdom he learned while living as a monk to the modern world. His perspectives on personal development and finding your life’s purpose resonate strongly with me.
I also listen to New York Times’ The Daily on a regular basis to stay current on what’s happening in the world. Even though current events can feel overwhelming and at many times distressing, I’m a big believer in the importance of staying informed.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
“Character is Destiny.” That was the quote in my high school yearbook and it’s as true today as it ever was.
The most impactful people in the world aren’t so because of their wealth, their privilege or their power. A person can have all the money on the planet but if their character doesn’t guide them to do something good with it, it won’t make a difference to anyone but them.
It’s not what you have but who you are that will decide the direction of your life.
You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. 🙂
I’m passionate about lifting up young girls to become the changemakers of tomorrow. Particularly in marginalized communities, young girls experience disproportionate obstacles to success. Being a mentor for them and helping build up their confidence as a BIPOC businesswoman myself is a big focus of mine and where I personally believe I can inspire the utmost good.
How can our readers follow you online?
Please follow @doubleshotagency and @1Milk2Sugars for all the latest buzz about our agencies!
This was very inspiring. Thank you so much for joining us!
Perform better: An inclusive organization is more likely to exceed financial targets, be high-performing, be agile and innovative, and overall, achieve better business outcomes.
As a part of our series about “How Diversity Can Increase a Company’s Bottom Line”, I had the pleasure of interviewing Sheree Atcheson.
Sheree Atcheson is the Group Vice President of Diversity & Inclusion at Valtech. She is a multi-award winner for her services to the D&I industry and was named one of the UK’s Top Most Influential Women in Tech. In 2013, she founded and currently serves as an Advisory Board Member of the U.K. expansion of Women Who Code, the world’s largest non-profit dedicated to gaining and retaining women in tech. Additionally, Sheree is the author of Demanding More — a book that aims to teach readers about how deliberate exclusion has been in systems and society, and how we must be purposefully and deliberately inclusive moving forward. For 10 years, Sheree has held global senior roles in diversity, equity, & inclusion for multiple companies, including Peakon, Monzo, and Deloitte.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we dive into the main part of our interview, our readers would love to “get to know you” a bit more. Can you share a bit of your “backstory” with us?
Definitely! Let’s start way back. When I was three weeks old, I was adopted from Sri Lanka by an Irish family. I grew up in County Tyrone, Ireland, and I’ve openly shared what it was like being a child of color in a very white space, which has become an avenue for me to expand on the ability of being both underrepresented and privileged.
After receiving a bachelor’s degree in Computer Science from Queen’s University Belfast, I started my career as a software engineer at Kainos — a digital services provider in Northern Ireland. I worked on lots of different projects there, my favorite probably being a developer on government projects like the online Register to Vote application.
This technical background has significantly influenced my roles in the diversity, equity, and inclusion industry. For the last 10 years, I’ve been developing D&I strategies like I would approach developing a technology solution — using agile and embedding data in success/failure measures. I firmly believe this is the best approach, and something I write a lot about on Forbes. Simply put, data equals accountability, which equals action. Ones and zeros don’t lie, and it’s hard to disagree with what data is telling you. And when working with technology-rooted companies like Valtech, this approach resounds much better than if I was someone coming from an HR background without an understanding of how they develop their projects, see ideas, and bring them from ideation to execution.
My leadership roles in D&I over the past decade include Head of Consulting Inclusion at Deloitte UK, Global Head of D&I at Monzo Bank, Global Director of DE&I at Peakon, and now, Group Vice President of D&I at Valtech.
Can you share the funniest or most interesting story that happened to you since you started your career? Can you tell us the lesson or take away, you took out of that story?
I think probably the most interesting story is being adopted and going back to Sri Lanka to find my biological mother. Whilst it isn’t something I’d do again if I could turn back time, it was still eye opening and it very much changed how I see things as a whole. The fun part of that was during my time there, lots of students posted about me as their inspiration, which was really humbling and kind. One group of university students even recorded my story, with their own actors! You can watch it here.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you tell us a story about how that was relevant in your own life?
Don’t turn down good opportunities, because you never know where they’ll lead to. I know this is easier said than done, but where and when you can, if you have the energy or time to take on something new, do it. For me, that’s largely been the reason my career accelerated so quickly.
None of us are able to achieve success without some help along the way. Is there a particular person who you are grateful towards who helped get you to where you are?
My answer is always the same. Jackie Henry, who I worked with at Deloitte and who paved the way for me by creating brand new, historic roles for me at the firm to allow me to make D&I my full-time role. She consistently opened doors for me, and let me find my own way, never forcing me down the paths she may have chosen, but letting me find my own leadership style and goals. We’re now more close friends and sit as colleagues, both working in senior leadership roles. I’m always very thankful to have met her.
What do you think makes your company stand out? Can you share a story?
One of Valtech’s key differentiators is its size, which allows the company to collaborate on D&I strategies and implement them quickly. Most organizations can’t do this unless they’re smaller in size.
At Valtech, we take a regional/local perspective to implementation. This is different from trying to whitewash the same strategy across an entire global company, which I still see all the time with other organizations today. For example, after the murder of George Floyd, I saw several companies take a North American approach to ethnicity and inclusion, even in EMEA, which doesn’t translate or make sense. The reality is there are significant differences across markets, and it’s essential for companies to have conversations about D&I that are relevant to each region, even if you’re unable to collect data there. Valtech strongly follows this approach, enabling and empowering its regions to do what’s best for their area, while keeping me in the loop so I can help guide them in the right direction.
Are you working on any new or exciting projects now? How do you think that might help people?
Absolutely! One of my passions is being an advocate for gaining and retaining women in the technology industry. In 2013, I launched the award-winning U.K. expansion of Women Who Code and now serve as the organization’s Advisory Board Member. As part of our mission, we aim to create a local haven for women to learn about technology and the IT industry together, and feel confident as they grow their careers. We offer monthly tech talks, career trainings, hack nights, and more. WWCode is now the world’s largest non-profit globally dedicated to women in technology.
This experience inspired me to support a similar project founded at Valtech many years ago: tech_Girl, which is our initiative to empower and encourage the next generation of women in tech by showcasing inspiring role models and careers in the industry to young girls. Over 800 girls have been impacted globally from the initiative to date, and we run events in our offices worldwide.
For example, in partnership with VentureKids Canada, we hosted our first-ever ‘tech_Girl’ coding program in 2020 for young girls living in underserved communities. We designed the free program to teach young girls coding and entrepreneurship fundamentals and introduce them to diverse leaders working in Canada’s tech field.
How have you used your success to bring goodness to the world?
As a global senior executive at various companies, I’ve worked in many regions and developed tailored, data-driven DE&I strategies, defining clear goals and accountability to embed success and inclusion that scales and lasts. Additionally, I’ve spoken at many global events, conferences, and leadership sessions and delivered countless trainings and workshops on allyship, privilege awareness, unconscious bias, becoming a D&I ambassador, empowering yourself to empower others, and much more.
At Valtech, I oversee, create, and lead the development and implementation of the company’s group D&I strategy — including the best practices, frameworks, and solutions for all their 20+ regions. I ensure they collaborate globally and build a sense of accountability, guidance, and advisory. Under my leadership, we’ve adopted several changes, including a reworked hiring process that’s trained on inclusivity, leadership programs to help underrepresented talent, and data-backed decision-making on D&I initiatives.
Ok. Thank you for that. Let’s now jump to the main part of our interview. This may be obvious to you, but it is not intuitive to many people. Can you articulate to our readers five ways that increased diversity can help a company’s bottom line.
Do the right thing: No further explanation needed.
Perform better: An inclusive organization is more likely to exceed financial targets, be high-performing, be agile and innovative, and overall, achieve better business outcomes.
Improve your offerings: When developing products or services, people typically don’t prioritize the inclusion that they don’t personally identify with, and considerations like standard mobility issues, speech impediments, and more can be left out. A proper D&I strategy embeds inclusion into technology processes from the start and offers checks and balances at every stage, including development, user testing, deployment, and support.
Retain employees: The Great Resignation during the pandemic left many companies scrambling to fill in the gaps. A recent survey of over 800 recruiters revealed more than one-third of candidates (44%) turned down a job offer or even an interview due to lack of diversity in the company’s workforce. And this trend runs true with the next working generation as well. To keep current talent and attract new employees, it’s clear that companies must prioritize D&I.
Friction before decision-making: All too often, we make decisions in echo-chambers that are riddled with assumptions and bias, largely because they’re not challenged. Having more diversity within our leadership rooms means we have friction before we make decisions that can affect 10s, 100s, or even 1000s of people.
What advice would you give to other business leaders to help their employees to thrive?
It’s essential to implement a D&I strategy that’s effective. To do so, I encourage following a 3-step approach:
Listening — too often, organizations go straight into action instead of understanding what employees want and are missing. For smaller companies, this might entail facilitated sessions or small surveys. For larger organizations, I recommend using an engagement platform like Peakon.
Communication — be sure to share back what you learned from these sessions. It’s one of the best ways to engage people and makes them feel involved and listened to.
Action — don’t build a massive strategy from the takeaways or try to fix everything at once. It’s easy to become passionate and rush ahead, but this steam can run out very quickly if you’re not seeing the desired changes, which could stem from being spread too thin or lacking resources. Instead, I recommend choosing one thing per quarter that you think you can do successfully and providing specific, regular updates as you move forward.
What advice would you give to other business leaders about how to manage a large team?
As mentioned before, one of the most important things for business leaders to focus on is nuances across regions. Regulation is in place to guide and provide a structure for D&I strategies, but that’s like having the title of a book but no chapters. What use is that unless you bring it to life? There are far too many scenarios today in D&I where companies don’t individualize their strategies based on their industry, the size of their company, and its global regions. Unfortunately, this unearths major problems like diversity gaps that take longer to fix due to the nuances not being addressed in the initial planning.
Additionally, it’s vital for businesses to prioritize embedding trust first and making sure people feel comfortable with sharing their thoughts. When you capture data, you’re asking people to share something they may not want to — even if it’s anonymous and aggregated. Be transparent about what you plan to do with the data, including initiatives you’re aiming to launch. It’s also important not to ask all your questions at once, as this typically leads to bad disclosure rates, and it takes longer to embed trust. Try starting with 2–3 focus points depending on the region.
Outside of collecting data and developing strategies, I recommend you implement mandated interview training that identifies the top six biases with hiring and provides guidance on how to disrupt them at each stage of the process.
We are very blessed that some of the biggest names in Business, VC funding, Sports, and Entertainment read this column. Is there a person in the world, or in the US whom you would love to have a private breakfast or lunch with, and why? He or she might just see this 🙂
Jacinda Ardern for her leadership, empathy, and directness.
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Meet The Disruptors: Pinar Akiskalioglu of Punk Business School On The Five Things You Need To Shake Up Your Industry
An Interview With Fotis Georgiadis
…Technology, the pandemic, the recession — the world is changing. In the future there may be fewer jobs, so we need more radical thinking.
As a part of our series about business leaders who are shaking things up in their industry, I had the pleasure of interviewing Pinar Akiskalioglu.
Pinar Akiskalioglu is an entrepreneur who wants to make the business and beauty worlds put people and the planet first.
She is founder of TAKK, a personal care brand which sells a stripped-back collection of beauty essentials, and Punk Business School aimed at entrepreneurs and intrapreneurs who want to become better, more empathetic and intuitive leaders.
Pinar was born in Turkey but is now based in London. Along with dividing her time between her two businesses, she is also a board member for Ricoti, a renewable energy business and a consultant at Oxford Garage, a mentor hub for new startups.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we dig in, our readers would like to get to know you a bit more. Can you tell us a bit about your “backstory”? What led you to this particular career path?
For most of my early career, I was in a hurry to climb the corporate ladder. This is what you do in the emerging world: work hard to achieve the defined success ideal. I did what it took to be successful; delivered results, won the crowd and strategically negotiated my next steps until I was at the top of my game.
The moment I got there, I decided to start my journey all over again to find how I could use my skills, knowledge and privilege to create a positive social impact in the world.
Doing this is harder than I ever imagined. Leaving a powerful corporate position behind — for which you worked hard for — makes you feel vulnerable. I responded to this by immersing myself in prestigious business education before I started swimming in the entrepreneurial ocean. It was a way to manage my fear before I started doing my own thing.
One day during a class, I was praising an old CEO who would replace what he deemed ‘underperformers’ with more productive people to boost company performance when a fellow classmate called me out, remarking that ‘this wasn’t a CEO she would like to work for and how it was nothing to be proud of.’ This pivotal moment opened my eyes to a new world, one that is different from the culture I grew up in where the rules of the game could be confidently challenged.
Today, I am working hard to build companies that are financially strong to stand on their own and make a difference for a just world. In my years working in the corporate world I have experienced so much of what is wrong with business and I now want to work on ideas to right those wrongs. Global companies are too powerful — they make it impossible for smaller companies to compete and spend too much time on internal politics, impressing each other within the organization rather than focusing on creating value for our society. Capitalism has gone too far and it is destructive.
Can you tell our readers what it is about the work you’re doing that’s disruptive?
I am a serial entrepreneur, only involved in impact making businesses. My beauty brand, TAKK, sells a pared-back collection of bathroom essentials made from high-quality ingredients. It is very much a reaction to the ‘sell cheap, stack ’em high’ ethos of the big brands who compete for consumers by creating more and more products. This only leads to shelves groaning with ‘stuff’, mountains of plastic in landfill and to consumer fatigue — do we really need to choose from 200 types of shampoos, especially when most products do the same thing?
At TAKK there is just one product for each category — so, one face cream, one shampoo, one shower gel, one soap, one razor and so on. They are suitable for both women and men because the difference in skin types is negligible — there is no need for separate products.
We don’t overmarket or overpromise miracle ‘wonder cures’, because they simply don’t exist — it’s just marketing hype. We are working to create a robust circular economy to act on solving the climate emergency. We are also helping to create a workplace where our employees are happy, paid fairly and fulfilled.
I hope TAKK will make big beauty brands sit up and take notice. But I don’t just want to encourage the beauty world to be more ethical, I want the business world to be more considerate too. I believe it has lost its way, putting profits over people and the planet.
That’s why I have recently launched Punk Business School which aims to give practical and affordable philosophy education to business professionals. Traditional courses teach the facts such as corporate finance and marketing, peppered with an awful lot of unfathomable management speak and over-complicated business BS, but very few teach people the core tenets of what good leadership means today: empathy, collaboration and intuition. Punk Business aims to change that.
The world is changing, it’s becoming ever-more complex and many of the new problems can’t be answered by what you learn in textbooks. You need to know who you are and what you stand for, listen to your intuition so you can look at the bigger picture and make better decisions.
So, in a nutshell, I am trying to do for business what I am doing for beauty — strip out the noise and in doing so, do my bit to make it more humane.
Can you share a story about the funniest mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?
I’m not sure it’s a laugh-out-loud story, but the biggest mistake I made when launching TAKK was about being too corporate in our language at the start. Despite being a direct-to-consumer brand, our website talked more about our corporate ethics than what our products did. As a result, in the first two weeks, we had more venture capital companies approaching us than customers!
We all need a little help along the journey. Who have been some of your mentors? Can you share a story about how they made an impact?
We often think about mentors being senior leaders but I would say my team members inspire me every day to be a better manager. I’ve learnt that being a nice manager, by stripping out the unnecessary layers of business — the presentations, the documentation, the overly-elaborate work systems — you can give people the mental and creative space so they thrive. When you let people be themselves, rather than making them comply with what an organization wants them to be, you will get the best out of them. If you don’t, you can run into problems with internal politics, perhaps blame culture and even bullying, which can ruin a productive workplace.
I also think some of the best mentors have actually been bad managers that I have worked for in the past — who have shown me what not to do.
In today’s parlance, being disruptive is usually a positive adjective. But is disrupting always good? When do we say the converse, that a system or structure has ‘withstood the test of time’? Can you articulate to our readers when disrupting an industry is positive, and when disrupting an industry is ‘not so positive’? Can you share some examples of what you mean?
Disrupting is good when it is used as a force for positive change, like what I am trying to do with TAKK — trying to stop the beauty industry selling more products than people (and the planet) needs. When disrupting is not good however, is when the motive puts profit over people and the planet. Take Uber. I believe this is just Wall Street cash flooding the market, killing off traditional taxis and without any concern for the social welfare or rights of their drivers. Pouring money into a market simply to hijack profits is not the right way to do business.
Can you share five of the best words of advice you’ve gotten along your journey? Please give a story or example if you can.
I don’t really listen to other people’s advice. I hope that doesn’t sound arrogant as it’s not meant to be, it’s just not the way I learn. I prefer to plough on, make mistakes and learn from them. I do get advice from books though — I read philosophy. Philosophers Friedrich Nietzsche and Bertrand Russel have been great teachers since my twenties. The Japanese writer Haruki Murakami I also find inspiring. He says: “a story begins when something that should be there isn’t, someone who should be there isn’t” — it’s a motto that reminds me of the beauty of life and gives me the strength to embrace challenges when things don’t go my way.
We are sure you aren’t done. How are you going to shake things up next?
A few years ago I stumbled on US psychologist Barry Schwartz’s Ted Talk Paradox of Choice which basically changed my life. In it he talks about the paralysis of choice and how the more choices you have, the more unhappy and unsatisfied you are. I was still in the corporate world at the time and the talk was eye opening — it made me question whether my job selling personal care was actually making people happy as I told myself, and whether I was actually doing anything worthwhile to society. Schwartz’s thinking became the basis of my personal care brand, TAKK.
Do you have a book, podcast, or talk that’s had a deep impact on your thinking? Can you explain why it was so resonant with you?
Bertrand Russel said; to conquer fear is the beginning of wisdom. There’s a lot of fear involved, especially in entrepreneurship, and I don’t think we talk about it enough. It’s important to embrace that fear, but not let it stop you from doing what you believe is the right thing to do.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? And how was that relevant to you in your life?
I want to build companies where people are really happy, treated fairly and are successful and where we do focus on people and profits. If I can pull this off, I will set an example that people will know it is possible. I’d like to inspire other leaders to do the same — many successful people have the same urge, turning to consulting or writing books at the end of their career, but I’d like to be the one who does it while they go along.
You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be?
Firstly, I would like the world to share financial resources. This would be in the form of a universal basic income — giving everyone in the world enough money to eat and have a place to sleep. It’s an ambitious dream, but while critics say that it would only fuel lethargy, experiments from a two-year experiment in Finland in 2017 proved that it can boost mental health and can even fuel self-worth, confidence and aspiration.
People were even motivated to branch out and seek more expansive opportunities, often through unpaid work. The experiment showed how people have a desire to contribute to society — so let’s think higher of people and not assume they’re just out for themselves.
Technology, the pandemic, the recession — the world is changing. In the future there may be fewer jobs, so we need more radical thinking.
In the same vein, I would also like the world to start sharing knowledge — businesses often work in silos and don’t recognise that collective action can solve complex problems such as climate change.
I am often accused of being too romantic but there needs to be people in this world with aspirations. Hope is contagious. People are naturally drawn to it, and when they are drawn to it and come together, movements happen. And change happens — for the good.
Heroes Of The Homeless Crisis: How Ardana ‘AJ’ Jefferson Of Homeless Children’s Education Fund Is Helping To Support Some Of The Most Vulnerable People In Our Communities
An Interview With Fotis Georgiadis
Do not take life for granted. Someone else is wishing for what we have every day.
As a part of my series about “Heroes Of The Homeless Crisis” I had the pleasure of interviewing Ardana ‘AJ’ Jefferson.
Ardana ‘AJ’ Jefferson joined Homeless Children’s Education Fund (HCEF) in March 2022. She is tasked with advancing the organization’s 23-year mission through leadership development, community advocacy, public policy, financial stewardship and sustainable revenue growth. With more than 25 years of experience in nonprofit management and net revenue growth, AJ has an in-depth understanding of the industry and has successfully executed strategic plans across organizational enterprises.
Before joining the HCEF team, AJ served as the Director of Hope Group (Business Development and Operations) for Hosanna House and Vice President of Membership/Marketing for both the YMCAs of Greater Rochester and Central Florida. Additionally, she served in various leadership positions across the YMCA movement.
AJ is a member of the NAACP and an advocate for children with special needs. She also lends her skills to Carlow University as a frequent presenter and lecturer. Her other favorite pastime activity is instilling courage in her mentees, friends and business associates. And, her life’s purpose is fueled by helping people reach their highest potential.
Thank you so much for joining us! Is there a particular story or incident that inspired you to get involved in your work helping people who are homeless?
Yes, I was homeless. When I was a child, my mother decided to leave my father after living through years of a very tumultuous marriage. We left in the middle of the night, leaving an Army base somewhere in Massachusetts and traveling what seemed like days on a Greyhound bus to start a new life in Pittsburgh. My mother had nothing but her new college degree and the desire to make a better life for us. This happened in the early 1980s when the McKinney-Vento Act was not yet established; therefore, specialized school programs and social services support were unavailable. But we did have extended family that helped us — specifically my great Aunt Ruth (we called her Aunt Ruby), who welcomed us into her home for as long as it took for my mother to find a decent job and a safe place to live.
Although Aunt Ruby graciously provided us shelter, she was not wealthy. My mother still had to figure out how to feed and clothe us. And living in someone else’s house with other people is different from living in your own house. My mother and I had to share a small room and I could not just be a kid — run around and play like I used to. Nothing in the house was ours except the clothes on our backs. I had to ask permission for everything. We had to live through stressful moments before my mom could move us out. But, unlike other children in that same situation, Aunt Ruby tried her best to make us feel welcomed, loved and supported.
My mother was a rock through the entire process. She was trying in every way possible to make our transition as normal as possible. I applaud her for making the tough decision to leave our home because she wanted something better for us. And, her commitment to getting her college degree aided her greatly in transforming our lives.
Homelessness has been a problem for a long time in the United States. But it seems that it has gotten a lot worse over the past five years, particularly in the large cities, such as Los Angeles, New York, Seattle, and San Francisco. Can you explain to our readers what brought us to this place? Where did this crisis come from?
The causes of homelessness are complex and multivariate. Still, the main driver, especially in the major cities you listed, is that housing costs have increased over the past few decades at a rate that far outpaces wages. There is simply not enough housing available at the prices that people working low-wage jobs can pay and employment at these jobs is increasingly unstable. Based on data from the National Low Income Housing Coalition, there are about 11 million households in the United States who have extremely low income (i.e., below 30% of the area’s median income) and only around 7.4 million units of housing affordable to them. In addition to this stark shortage in absolute terms, many of those 7.4 million affordable units are already occupied by people above the extremely low-income threshold (i.e., those with low income still compete with higher-income households for the limited affordable units). The actual number of homes available to those 11 million Americans in the lowest income bracket is closer to four million, leaving a shortage of seven million affordable homes (https://nlihc.org/gap).
Factors such as mental illness, domestic violence, substance use, etc., all contribute on an individual level. But almost all serious analyses of the problems place them as secondary causes of the shortage of affordable housing.
For the benefit of our readers, can you describe the typical progression of how one starts as a healthy young person with a place to live, a job, an education, a family support system, a social support system, a community support system, to an individual who is sleeping on the ground at night? How does that progression occur?
What you describe is not a common progression because so many young people never have access to all those advantages from the start. Take the health piece in isolation: access to quality health care in the United States largely depends on your ability to pay for it; as a result, children born into families with low income tend to have fewer health checkups and more health complications. They are much more likely to suffer from chronic health problems like asthma, exposure to lead and mental health conditions, primarily due to environmental factors beyond their control.
Similarly, as we see daily in our work at HCEF, there is no guarantee of a stable place to live and a good education for children. All the students we work with have lost their housing at some point, sometimes for a few weeks, sometimes intermittently for months or years. As parents struggle with housing, kids often miss large chunks of school time as a result. Education is time-sensitive. Suppose a child misses lessons at critical developmental periods. In that case, it can have snowballing effects on their ability to keep up with schoolwork down the road, affecting all sorts of long-term life outcomes, especially their ability to maintain stable housing as an adult.
So, the progression might look more like this: you are born into a household where the Mom is living paycheck to paycheck. She is staying in a tumultuous relationship to help pay bills. Eventually, she is forced to leave her partner and take you and your siblings to a shelter after a domestic incident. She tries to keep you in the same school, but no one can provide adequate transportation, so you miss a few weeks of class in the 3rd grade when you transition to the shelter. Then you may miss another month or so when you find permanent housing in the 4th grade, with sporadic absences in between as school transportation falters.
Maybe this happens again in middle school. By the time you enter high school, you start struggling with depression and anxiety related to the domestic violence you have witnessed, on top of the various difficulties of constantly bouncing around from place to place. Eventually, you lose interest in school and drop out because classes seem irrelevant. It feels like you are too far behind to catch up and to increase the hours at your part-time job seems more important in the short term. Unfortunately, this puts a relatively hard cap on your earning potential, so when Mom kicks you out at 19, you have not been able to save enough to make rent on your own, so you end up sleeping outside for a few nights, which leads losing even that low-paying job and so on.
This story is a culmination of my personal experience with homelessness and the experiences I have heard shared by my team as they work with students and families. The reality is that the track to homelessness is cyclical and usually starts before someone is born. The good news is that there are hundreds of ways people can interrupt these cycles to create better opportunities for those trapped within them. Ensuring parents and students access high-quality education is one of the most important interventions, as it opens the door to self-sufficient employment and other social opportunities.
A question that many people who are not familiar with the intricacies of this problem ask is, “Why don’t homeless people just move to a city that has cheaper housing?” How do you answer this question?
There are so many reasons that it is hard to know where to begin. First, logistically, moving has high up-front costs that people in immediate need of housing often cannot afford in the short term.
Moving to a less expensive region frequently means displacing yourself from your extended family, support networks and personal history, mainly affecting families with children. Abandoning friends, family and familiarity is not only emotionally scarring but also materially unfeasible for those who rely on their social networks for basic necessities such as free childcare (which allows them to work beyond the hours their kids are at school) and transportation (which gets their kids to school when buses fail to). Cheaper housing often means fewer jobs, lower pay and fewer public services. It is a tough sell to ask a parent to uproot their whole life for a place where their job prospects look worse than where they are presently.
The most important complication is that housing costs are rising everywhere. Rent has been outpacing real wages for decades, creating a situation where there are not enough affordable housing units available for the number of people who need them.
If someone passes a homeless person on the street, what is the best way to help them?
This advice may be obvious to anyone reading, but it is always worth a reminder:
1. Treat them with respect as you would extend to your friends, neighbors or coworkers.
2. Learn about the organizations in your area that are providing needed services and support them financially or through volunteering. Do your research to find the most credible organization with proven experience supporting individuals experiencing homelessness.
3. Share information about services. Anyone entering a shelter in Allegheny County (the Pittsburgh region) must call the Allegheny link at 866–730–2368 to receive housing help. You can also share/use Finding Your Way in PA (https://findingyourwayinpa.com/) or 211 (call or go to https://pa211sw.org/) to find free local help for basic needs like showers, food, counseling services, rent, etc.
4. Advocate for systemic change. Learn about solutions from groups like HCEF, SchoolHouse Connection, the National Low Income Housing Coalition, ACTION Housing, etc. Call your legislators, form local activism groups and vote.
What is the best way to respond if a homeless person asks for money for rent or gas?
Even the ‘experts’ disagree on the answer to this question, but honestly, if I have a few extra dollars, give it because I believe in the scripture that says be kind to strangers because you could be entertaining an angel. If you are uncomfortable with that (which is completely understandable), consider carrying cards with information about the basic-needs services in your areas, such as food banks and drop-in centers, so you can share them when you meet someone. Most homeless service providers will gladly give you something like this if you ask.
For Pennsylvania residents, Finding Your Way in PA (https://findingyourwayinpa.com/) is also a phenomenal resource for helping people find free services like meals, shelter, rental assistance, showers, etc. It is easy to navigate and provides full descriptions of how to access services and filters based on location and relevance, so you know the information will be helpful to the person who needs it.
Whatever you do, remember how you respond can have a significant impact on someone’s day.
Can you describe to our readers how your work is making an impact battling this crisis?
A high-quality education can spell the difference between being homeless and being housed. Since young people who experience homelessness in school are much less likely to graduate from high school (only 64% graduate compared to 84% of the total population), there is a direct pipeline from youth homelessness to adult homelessness. In fact, someone who does not graduate high school is 346% more likely to experience homelessness as a young adult, making the lack of a high school diploma the single greatest risk factor for homelessness.
Our goal is to provide students experiencing homelessness with access to stable, high-quality education throughout their childhood so they can graduate on time and succeed in whatever they pursue. We provide after-school programming at shelters, individualized home-visit tutoring, funding for emergency needs, social/emotional health education, systemic advocacy, supplies and post-secondary scholarship funding. We provide whatever else it takes to keep kids on a successful track to graduation and successful careers. It is not easy work, but it is absolutely necessary to do whatever we can to level an extremely inequitable playing field.
How has the COVID-19 pandemic affected the homeless crisis, and the homeless community? Also how has it affected your ability to help people?
Every school district closed its doors and attempted remote learning for most of the 2020/2021 school year. Needless to say, ‘at-home learning’ was a disaster for children who did not have stable homes from which to learn. There was a lack of technology, none or unstable internet, crowded or unsafe living spaces and a lack of childcare.
And, remote learning severely impaired school staff’s ability to identify and serve students experiencing homelessness. For context, each school must legally designate a homeless liaison among its staff. This person, usually a school counselor or social worker, must work to identify students experiencing homelessness, then connect them to supportive services. In a typical year, liaisons will notice when families lose their housing by their need for transportation services. Parents will call to let someone know they have been forced to move and cannot get their child to school or someone will reach out to the family based on a student’s absence.
During remote school, that system fell apart. Without a need for transportation services, liaisons struggled to identify students in crisis, plummeting official homeless youth numbers and leaving thousands of Pennsylvania youth unserved at a time when they needed the most help. In light of this, we have been redoubling our efforts to champion students by strengthening school partnerships, expanding programming and offering new professional training for school staff to help them identify and help students in crisis.
Can you share something about your work that makes you most proud? Is there a particular story or incident that you found most uplifting?
During my first weeks with HCEF, I was awarded the opportunity to witness firsthand how our team supports the students. I remember being in a mobile learning session led by our K-8 team, Kait Nykwest and Alizé Strickland. I marveled at their ability to create an inspirational, progressive and individualized learning environment for a 6-year-old that has suffered tremendous loss and countless housing transitions. After weeks of Kait and Alizé applauding him for trying his best while they incorporated individualized learning, the little boy who could not spell his name, with great pride, showed me he could now identify all the letters in his name and put them in the proper order. My heart was filled with joy as he proudly accomplished that task.
I also recall observing a college and career planning session led by our Teen Advocate, Patience Baker. One of her students was experiencing a difficult situation with a college admissions officer. She was on the brink of giving up, but Patience changed that moment by providing a tool she could use for the rest of her life. Patience had our student write down everything she needed to ask the admissions officer in a script. The young lady then called the officer and sent a follow-up email using that same script. An hour later, the admissions team resolved the issues and the student was greatly relieved and beaming from ear to ear.
These are just two basic yet life-altering examples of my team’s support for our students.
Without sharing real names, can you share a story with our readers about a particular individual who was impacted or helped by your work?
From our Program team:
Jayvon (changed name) moves back and forth, sometimes weekly, between two sets of caregivers, one at an apartment and one at a motel. The changes mean different routines, meals, schedules and levels of engagement in learning. When he misses the consistency of daily routines, his participation in school and after school can be challenging, but he and his caregivers value his education. Each day he logs on with us virtually to catch up on basic skills he is missing due to several months of absence in second grade. His recent return to school resulted in a referral to our programs. Jayvon has jumped forward with quick progress in both letter naming and identification, things that were initially a struggle. His after-school team and in-school educators have been meeting weekly to keep up on his current strengths and progress and talk about how to encourage his growth to continue at a quick pace. During a recent meeting with his school counselor, we learned that he would be able to progress to the next grade in the fall, which they said would likely not have been possible without Javon’s hard work and the team’s effort to collaborate with his caregivers. We are extremely excited to celebrate Jayvon’s excellent progress and look forward to visiting and tutoring him in person to keep building on his strengths.
Summer update:
This summer, Jayvon woke up bright and early each Monday and Wednesday — with the help of his grandfather — to meet with our team for his tutoring sessions. As a part of HCEF’s pilot Mobile Learning program, Jayvon spent his mornings reading books, identifying letters, writing words and sentences, playing learning games and creating science experiments! His grandfather was engaged throughout the process, staying in touch with our Family Engagement Coordinator about scheduling, discussing what Jayvon was learning and how to advocate at a school district meeting for Jayvon and students like him. Jayvon’s perseverance reminded us that learning is an incremental process and that each new set of words is an opportunity for celebration. He conquered fluency in naming and identifying letters and strengthened his phonics skills which are key components of reading. Jayvon’s face showed his genuine excitement and confidence as he learned to read new words and sentences. At the end of each session, he loved to recount the day’s activities for his grandfather and share the successes and what he was looking forward to practicing before the next session.
We look forward to continuing to work with Jayvon and his family as he transitions back to school for the new school year.
Can you share three things that the community and society can do to help you address the root of this crisis? Can you give some examples?
• Educate yourselves and others on the root causes of homelessness.
• Advocate for systemic change. Learn about solutions from groups like HCEF, SchoolHouse Connection, the National Low Income Housing Coalition, ACTION Housing, etc. Call your legislators, form local activist groups and vote.
• Donate to organizations working hard to help people escape homelessness and maintain stable housing.
If you had the power to influence legislation, which three laws would you like to see introduced that might help you in your work?
• The Homeless Children and Youth Act (HCYA) is a federal bill extending federal HUD homeless assistance eligibility to families who are temporarily doubling up with others due to a loss of their housing. These situations are frequently unstable, overcrowded and/or unsafe. The education system recognizes these families as homeless and provides special rights and protections, but the broader spectrum of homeless services remains unavailable. This bill would align homelessness definitions to allow HUD to evaluate families in these situations for much-needed services.
• The American Housing and Economic Mobility Act is a federal bill that would invest in building nearly three million new affordable housing units targeted at low and middle-income families. It would also incentivize local municipalities to loosen restrictive zoning laws that keep rents high. It could make a huge difference for millions of families who struggle to pay rising rents and mortgages.
• Improved funding for the Education for Homeless Children and Youth Program. This is the only federal program that funds schools’ ability to identify and assist students experiencing homelessness. Currently, 77% of local schools across America do not receive any of it. We are simply not providing schools with enough money to scratch the surface of the educational component of homelessness. Schools across the country cannot consistently transport unstably-housed students to and from school because of the lack of funding. How can we expect people to improve their situations if we cannot even transport them to school so they can learn to read at pace with their peers?
I know that this is not easy work. What keeps you going?
I have spent my life advocating on behalf of marginalized individuals. When I became a mother of a child with special needs, my commitment to helping women and children in need increased tenfold. Joining HCEF and supporting my staff fuels my purpose in life to instill courage in others. It is my absolute pleasure to wake up every day and assist my team as they provide direct care and support to our students. It is a tremendous responsibility that I do not take lightly but it brings me immense joy to support those who support our kiddos.
Do you have hope that one day this great social challenge can be solved completely?
Yes, I do. It may seem insurmountable, but I believe that strategic collaboration with social service agencies, post and secondary education institutions, major employers and local and federal governments can eliminate the cycle of poverty that perpetuates generational homelessness.
What are your “5 things I wish someone told me when I first started” and why. Please share a story or example for each.
1. That I would cry often! The everyday stories of our students tug at the heartstrings.
2. That homelessness does not typically look like we would expect. If a person is not living in a consistent, stable and adequate nighttime residence, according to the federal government, they are considered homeless. So not only was I homeless at the age of nine so was my son because we lived with his grandmother for a period of time when I was in transition.
3. That this work would bring me back to life! In my work with a former organization, I knew there was something more I was destined to accomplish in my life. And because I was not the leader of that organization, I felt stifled. At HCEF, I am helping to model the work that will make the most impact on the population we serve.
4. Do not take life for granted. Someone else is wishing for what we have every day.
5. Each staff member is not simply good at what they do, they are real-life superheroes! For very little money and even less fanfare, my team stays committed to seeing our students succeed.
You are a person of enormous influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. 🙂
If I could inspire a movement that would bring about the most change, I would normalize providing mental health training to all students in K-12 schools. This summer, our Teen Outreach staff provided modified, fast-tracked dialectical behavior therapy (DBT) to 13 students at a local youth organization where my son participated. For one month, four days per week, my DBT-certified staff helped students identify and change negative thinking patterns and offered them a pathway to change those negative thoughts into positive, productive behaviors. How do I know it works and is important for students to navigate real-life situations? I saw my son use the skills he was taught to self-regulate his emotions when he experienced a challenging situation during the summer. I watched him apply the coping mechanisms to move from potentially having a meltdown to calmly requesting the support he needed to establish positive thinking.
This progress was amazing to witness and I realized at that moment that every child should have the opportunity to learn these invaluable life skills.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
I have had several life lesson quotes over my nearly five decades but the one that always comes back to me is from my mentor Robyn Guy. As I was about to embark on an incredible career journey, leaving home and traveling to Florida, I thanked her for everything she did to help me, including buying my first nice interview suit. So, when I landed the job, I wanted to pay her back for her kindness. She said the only way I had to return the favor was “pay it forward.” And that is what I have tried to do from that moment on, pay her kindness and support she showed me forward to my mentees, staff and other colleagues.
Is there a person in the world, or in the US whom you would love to have a private breakfast or lunch with, and why? He or she might just see this, especially if we tag them. 🙂
I doubt this person would see this because he is no longer with us, but I would have loved to chat with Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Talk about a person who put everything on the line for what he believed in, the people he believed in. A person who inspired people to act using his words, his voice and his passion. A man that stood up and fought back with love for his people to be heard. That is the type of leader I desire to be.
Meet The Disruptors: Bill Kerr Of Avalon Healthcare Solutions On The Five Things You Need To Shake Up Your Industry
An Interview With Fotis Georgiadis
Choose being right or effective.
When dealing with people, you have to decide whether you want to get them on board with the change or do you want to be right. In my opinion, it is more important to be effective than right, and being right may be a barrier to being effective. This requires me to suppress my ego.
As a part of our series about business leaders who are shaking things up in their industry, I had the pleasure of interviewing Bill Kerr, M.D., CEO, Avalon Healthcare Solutions.
Bill Kerr, M.D., is the CEO of Avalon Healthcare Solutions. He co-founded the company in 2013 and leads the Avalon team that is scaling laboratory science into the healthcare ecosystem. Dr. Kerr holds a bachelor’s degree and medical degree from the University of Arkansas and an MBA from the University of Houston.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we dig in, our readers would like to get to know you a bit more. Can you tell us a bit about your “backstory”? What led you to this particular career path?
As the son of a physician who practiced in a small town in Arkansas, I grew up around healthcare. In fact, my father would sometimes drop me off in a hospital physicians’ lounge while he did rounds on a Saturday. From an early age, I knew I wanted a career in healthcare but not as a front-line physician. I wanted to somehow make healthcare better.
While working toward undergraduate and medical degrees at the University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences, College of Medicine, my focus turned to research. I delved into why cancer cells spread, sequenced DNA, and spent a year as a research assistant at the University of Oxford. But it was during my residency in the early 1990s in Texas when healthcare cost, quality, and access caught my attention. Undocumented immigrants in Texas had inpatient care paid for by the state, but not outpatient care. My conversations with parents about the inability of their child to receive care upon discharge brought to my attention the impact of healthcare funding. It also was the height of HMOs, so I saw the challenges people had navigating the healthcare system and narrow networks.
It took marrying another pediatric-oncology physician to shift my career focus within medicine. When I met my now wife, she and I both intended to become pediatric oncologists −− she a clinician and me a researcher. It struck me that our life together would be easier if we were not in the same field.
I was still very interested in how to improve healthcare costs, quality, and access. I decided I needed to learn the language of business. I earned an MBA and then became a medical director in the managed care sector. I stayed with health insurers for a dozen years. During that time, I witnessed employers struggling with the rate increases in health insurance, patients struggling to secure appointments and paying out-of-pocket costs, hospital administrators trying to retain nursing talent while balancing budgets, and physicians struggling to absorb malpractice insurance rates. It was a wonderful perspective from which to engage in the challenges of cost, quality, and access.
During my dozen years in the managed care industry, I had positions of increasing accountability for cost, quality, and outcomes. As Vice President of Professional Networks at Independence Blue Cross in Philadelphia during the start of this century, I worked on pay-for-performance programs for physicians and hospitals.
As the Chief Medical Officer at Blue Cross and Blue Shield Florida, I became closer to marketing the product through consumer incentive plans to inform and educate about treatment options. In my next position at Wellcare, I was involved with integrated case management for people with complex medical and mental health issues. It was compelling to me that we were driving innovation for the sickest of the sick.
At this time, the Medical-Loss Ratio for Medicaid and Medicare (and later coverage under the Affordable Care Act) required that payers must spend 80% to 85% of premium dollars on claims expenses. This limited the amount of money a health plan could retain for investment and profit, which resulted in cuts in the cost-quality area. This is not easy to do!
About this time, I became aware that private equity groups were looking for opportunities to invest in healthcare innovation and invest in programs that drove patient outcomes. So, I joined friends who had spun out a company and began my entrepreneurial journey that led to Avalon Healthcare Solutions, which I co-founded in 2013.
Can you tell our readers what it is about the work you’re doing that’s disruptive?
Avalon Healthcare Solutions is the world’s first Lab Insights company that generates actionable lab-driven insights in real-time to proactively ensure appropriate care and enhanced clinical outcomes.
We started Avalon because lab testing is the gateway for appropriate diagnosis and treatment care planning, and it certainly impacts the goal of achieving value-based care in this country. In fact, lab results are the basis for 70 percent of medical decisions.
There is, undoubtedly an explosion occurring in what we can test in the body. It goes beyond genetics, which receives a lot of attention, but we can break down more chemical components, stain tissues differently, and much more. All this innovation needs to be sorted out by the healthcare industry. It’s comparable to the disruption in radiology in the 1990s when innovation in PET and CT scanning required education on how and when to use the testing technology.
The fact is that increasing lab testing capabilities are increasing waste in the healthcare system. Consider that 10 to 12 percent of lab units “stuffed” into testing panels provide no useful information on diagnosing or treating a patient. This phenomenon of panel stuffing is pervasive and is common in routine testing, such as thyroid and Vitamin D panels.
Through Avalon’s platforms and solutions, we are uniquely disrupting the lab testing industry to save time, reduce waste, and improve patient care and outcomes. We do that with sound science, as our independent clinical advisory board creates policies defining when lab testing is clinically useful. Avalon prepares these policies for healthcare payers to follow when managing lab testing authorization and reimbursement. Does that create disruption for physicians, health systems, and labs? Yes, and it is changing how lab tests are ordered, approved, and paid for. One of Avalon’s customers has published over $100MM in savings through its adoption of our program.
With more than 33 million lives covered by Avalon, we are now bringing together the management of lab results at scale and gaining insight into testing trends. We can show where lab tests are not being utilized — and should be — and where lab results are not being used correctly to inform care. It’s another type of disruption that will advance appropriate testing and truly inform care.
Can you share a story about the funniest mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?
Early in my career when I was a medical director at United Healthcare, I had to review an orthopedic procedure. A nurse colleague came to me after I reviewed the case and said the orthopedist doing the procedure wanted a “real doctor” — not a board-certified pediatrician — to make the decision. I spoke to the orthopedic surgeon and explained that my decisions were based on national standards and I was well-trained to apply the health plan’s criteria to the case to approve or deny benefit coverage. While I didn’t make any mistakes in this case, I still laugh about being called out as not a real doctor. It emphasized to me that data by itself is not enough, and human connection is also very important in healthcare.
We all need a little help along the journey. Who have been some of your mentors? Can you share a story about how they made an impact?
Steven Udvarhelyi, M.D., currently CEO of Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Louisiana, was my boss when I worked at a start-up Medicaid plan in Texas and Independence Blue Cross in Philadelphia. He taught me about managing people and budgets and greatly advanced my business knowledge. I was a “blank sheet of paper” early on, and Steven helped fill it in.
Adam Boehler and Ezra Perlman of Francisco Partners still inspire me. Adam knows how to build companies from the ground up, and Ezra knows technology and investing. Combined with my knowledge of building programs and services, we had the right synergy to start Avalon.
In today’s parlance, being disruptive is usually a positive adjective. But is disrupting always good? When do we say the converse, that a system or structure has ‘withstood the test of time’? Can you articulate to our readers when disrupting an industry is positive, and when disrupting an industry is ‘not so positive’? Can you share some examples of what you mean?
Disruption for disruption’s sake is not always good. But disruption becomes necessary to change outcomes from the status quo. The challenge in healthcare is that cost and quality are not aligning, and the American public knows it and is not happy. Americans are spending more each year for less in quality than many other countries. It’s not acceptable that the gap keeps growing, so disruption is happening.
The challenge with disrupting the U.S. healthcare industry is the inertia built from what I call “huge tectonic plates,” which are the large provider systems, pharmaceutical companies, healthcare payers, government regulations, etc. They make innovation hard and generate great force in opposing change.
Can you share five of the best words of advice you’ve gotten along your journey? Please give a story or example for each.
Choose being right or effective.
When dealing with people, you have to decide whether you want to get them on board with the change or do you want to be right. In my opinion, it is more important to be effective than right, and being right may be a barrier to being effective. This requires me to suppress my ego.
Here’s an example: A middle manager says if he is promoted to a certain title, he will be more effective at his job. His mindset is that a bigger title brings more authority, but that’s typically not true. I believe that the higher up you go in an organization, the less top-down authority you truly have, which requires more influence to be successful.
We are sure you aren’t done. How are you going to shake things up next?
Avalon’s Lab Insights program is set to manage lab results at scale, at the population level. We’re marrying large data sets from the healthcare system to identify opportunities we haven’t even thought of yet. We do know we can look at lab test ordering and see who is not ordering the right tests or making the right decisions based on the test results. As the industry works to migrate from a fee-for-service to a fee-for-value program, ensuring the right testing and right interpretation and analyzing trends over time are critical. We’re about to see this go from anecdote to reality in our programs.
Do you have a book, podcast, or talk that’s had a deep impact on your thinking? Can you share a story with us? Can you explain why it was so resonant with you?
Walter Isaacson’s books are some of my favorites. I recently read Code Breakers, which explains how Jennifer Doudna and her collaborators invented an easy-to-use tool to edit DNA, known as CRISPR. I also read Isaacson’s books on Steve Jobs and Leonardo Da Vinci. Isaacson tries to understand how people reach a level of excellence, while also looking at their flaws and how they mitigate them to still succeed. It’s enlightening to understand that we’re all flawed and it’s a team effort to drive innovation.
As for podcasts, I enjoy Hidden Brain, which explores the unconscious patterns that drive human behavior. The podcast has helped me think a little differently. For instance, a recent episode demonstrated how important our frame of reference/viewpoint is to our understanding of the people around us. It pushed me to see the value of looking through other people’s eyes.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
“Life is not hard. People make it hard.” — Charles Barkley
You see the truth in this quote daily, with people making things harder than they should be. We should all think about how we’re making things hard and work on making things easier.
You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. 🙂
I would make the “tectonic plates” in healthcare more focused on driving value as opposed to preserving their self-interest and maintaining the status quo. I truly believe healthcare companies can be viable while being innovative in the areas of affordability and improved patient outcomes.
“If you take everyone’s opinion into account, you’ll end up with the most mediocre of ideas.”
As a part of our series about business leaders who are shaking things up in their industry, I had the pleasure of interviewing Chaeyoung Shin.
NAMUH co-founder and CEO, Chaeyoung Shin, is on a mission to close the gap between human breast milk and infant formula, recreating the bioactive molecules produced in breast milk that have a vital role in infant health and development. She earned her PhD in chemical engineering from UC Berkeley, transforming her proprietary yeast-based technology into a company as part of the Energy Biosciences Institute accelerator and Berkeley Skydeck Hot Desk programs.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we dig in, our readers would like to get to know you a bit more. Can you tell us a bit about your “backstory”? What led you to this particular career path?
My story starts as a “fragile” child. When I began eating solid foods, I didn’t have a strong appetite. I struggled with a constant stomach ache and watery stool, I noticed that I had lower levels of energy compared to my friends. I just thought I was born fragile, but didn’t recognize something was wrong because often as a child, what you experience is the only thing you know, and that is the “norm”. My digestive problems lasted until my early twenties, and I was diagnosed with multiple immune-related diseases, such as lupus — which in hindsight, might have been related to my gut problems. It was during my early days at graduate school when the importance of the gut-brain axis started to become a big thing. Also by this time, I knew that constant stomach aches were not normal. So, I launched a side project of meticulous research and experimentation with my nutrition. After years of scouring the internet and trial-and-error, I pieced together the best nutritional strategy to feed my body and gut microbiome. And I achieved the result that I was longing for — I don’t have constant stomach aches anymore (woohoo!). There were also unexpected, additional benefits — my energy level skyrocketed, my weight remained the same but my waist size decreased 2 in, and a fog over my thoughts (that I didn’t even know existed) lifted. Also during this time, I started questioning why I had struggled with all of these health issues and awful symptoms, especially as these immune conditions are often not considered to be hereditary. Simultaneously, I started working in the field of infant nutrition. That’s when it clicked; perhaps all of my health problems started from day one. I wasn’t breastfed as a baby and instead was exclusively formula-fed, which I later found out my body didn’t respond well to.
This realization fueled me to dive deeper into the murky world of baby formula, and what I discovered was shocking. Did you know there are no standards for infant formula to compare with breast milk? Did you know that formula feeding is associated with 40+ diseases and conditions? Baby formula is so necessary to a modern mom’s way of life, but it shouldn’t mean that a formula-fed baby is receiving inferior nutrition. NAMUH is working on closing the gap between human breast milk and infant formula. Our proprietary technology aims to create a baby formula that is molecularly identical to that of human breast milk.
Can you tell our readers what it is about the work you’re doing that’s disruptive?
The baby formula industry is stagnant and has been for the past 40 years. The large players have no need to innovate — their sales are increasing YoY anyway driven by the growing number of working women — and so they don’t! I’m not here to disrupt something that works well, but unfortunately, the ingredients and recipes in standard baby formula aren’t cutting it. Other brands are entering the baby formula market with organic and vegan options, but the basis of ingredients are still the same. NAMUH (human spelled backwards) has the technology to recreate human milk oligosaccharides (HMOs), the fiber-equivalents of breast milk, which are only found naturally in breast milk. In addition, we have partnerships with leading lipid and protein players to work together on creating human milk-like lipids and proteins. We want to provide formula feeding moms with a superior choice to what is on the market today.
Can you share a story about the funniest mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?
I was at a pitch event in Japan a few years back… when it was my turn to present, I noticed that they had a very futuristic-looking standing microphone at the podium. But the microphone didn’t seem to be working, so I leaned further and further into the microphone and also asked if the audience was able to hear me. I was about to tap it when a person finally ran upstage and handed me a typical looking microphone that was on top of the podium all this time. It turns out, I was speaking into the lamp, not a microphone. I was extremely embarrassed, but I ended up winning a prize at the event, so it was a happy outcome! The lesson that I learned from this experience is to make sure to take into consideration all the information rather than just only focusing on the first thing that I spot. Of course, I also learned that if a microphone seems to be emitting light, it’s likely not a microphone.
We all need a little help along the journey. Who have been some of your mentors? Can you share a story about how they made an impact?
Ryan Bethencourt has been an awesome mentor for me. Ryan is the CEO of Wild Earth, a vegan pet food company. I met him at Indiebio, an incubator program that we were part of. Coming from the academic world, it was quite shocking for me to run into someone like Ryan. He is always at level “hyper” in energy, and encourages first-time entrepreneurs to embrace both the hardships and the enjoyment of founding a startup. I learned how to hustle and make things work from Ryan. He helped keep me sane throughout the hard parts and is still my go-to person whenever I run into massive walls.
In today’s parlance, being disruptive is usually a positive adjective. But is disrupting always good? When do we say the converse, that a system or structure has ‘withstood the test of time’? Can you articulate to our readers when disrupting an industry is positive, and when disrupting an industry is ‘not so positive’? Can you share some examples of what you mean?
I believe that disrupting a stagnant system, market or product offering should be done when legacy brands are making no effort to improve upon the status quo simply because they don’t have to. Take breast pumps for example. In 2014, the New York Times wrote an article entitled, “Shouldn’t the Breast Pump Be as Elegant as an iPhone and as Quiet as a Prius by Now?” And the answer was a resounding “yes” from pumping women! Today, Willow, Elvie and Babyation (to name a few) have responded to that need and created wearable breast pumps that women can use discreetly while continuing about their daily lives. Without that innovation, women were tethered to an outlet and had to undress halfway in order to pump milk every 2–3 hours. This innovation changed the way women accomplish a very necessary yet challenging task — especially in the workplace!
Trying to replace breastfeeding entirely would be a “not so positive” disruption. Yes, in many cases breastfeeding is difficult and not possible, but it is a perfectly viable option for some. There is an emotional bonding aspect to breastfeeding, which would be almost impossible to replace. There are also immune-related functions of breastfeeding, which would be astronomically expensive to replace. So rather than “replacing” breastfeeding, I believe in supporting breastfeeding mothers and providing better for baby alternatives that will make a significant difference to moms who cannot or choose not to breastfeed.
Can you share five of the best words of advice you’ve gotten along your journey? Please give a story or example for each.
“Trust yourself.” I got this piece of advice from Ryan Bethencourt. I guess people say it all the time, and I used to think that I was good at trusting myself. However, when the day came when I had a handful of older, more experienced and successful people in front of me telling me I was wrong, I made the mistake of trusting them instead of myself. Now I make sure I don’t forsake my instincts or beliefs just because other, seemingly smarter people disagree.
“Grow thicker skin.” Paula Hicks, our CTO and my good friend & mentor, told me this after I had a particularly stressful week with investors. I was emotionally responding to every negative comment that was given to me so hearing her advice jolted me awake — my emotional responses were not helping me focus on the areas that needed actual improvement. Over time, I learned to grow thicker skin around my emotions at work. Reminding myself that the feedback is not personal (or should not be personal) and refocusing my energy on tangible actions really helped.
“You don’t have to be good at everything yourself; you just need to find and hire people who are better than you.” Laura Smoliar, one of our earliest investors, told me this. As a first time CEO, it was quite overwhelming to build a company, but her advice helped me change my perspective. Rather than learning how to do everything myself, which would be my first go-to solution, I learned how to learn just enough to be able to understand the needs and/or spot people who could help me or help me hire for a certain need. This mindset helped me recruit our amazing team.
“Be yourself.” This one I got recently from my marketing team. I think most founders are trained and advised to follow in the footsteps of some other great founders or their personas. In the past, I tried many things to diminish my feminine side (since most great founders are male), such as getting my hair cut short and wearing only pants. I also tried my best to bring out my inner Elon Musk during my pitches but would still get feedback that I should be more crazy like Travis Kalanick or more confident like a male founder of mutual acquaintances. But my marketing team had a crazy idea — to let me be more like myself. It’s too early to tell if this works or not, but at the very least it’s been the most liberating option 🙂
“If you take everyone’s opinion into account, you’ll end up with the most mediocre of ideas.” I don’t know where I read this, but it really helped me when I was getting a ton of feedback from all directions. I enjoy bouncing ideas off of people, but once we got to a certain size, it became really hard to take everyone’s thoughts into consideration. Reading this piece of advice gave me the confidence to weigh people’s opinions differently.
We are sure you aren’t done. How are you going to shake things up next?
Project Breast Milk is a call to action for moms who want to help create a healthier future for the next generation of formula fed babies. In August, NAMUH is launching Project Breast Milk. This effort will recruit 2,000 breastfeeding moms to donate their milk to create a future where every baby can benefit from nutrients that are found only in breast milk today. We have the technology to create a baby formula that is based on breast milk — now we need to create the recipe with help from breastfeeding moms who are passionate about creating a better future for all babies. Our formula is slated to launch in 2024.
Do you have a book, podcast, or talk that’s had a deep impact on your thinking? Can you share a story with us? Can you explain why it was so resonant with you?
It would be a book called “The Wise Heart” by Jack Kornfield. It’s about Buddhist psychology and shares many wisdoms and examples of how to observe and train your mind to be more “at peace.” I read this book for the first time last year, and it has helped me immensely with being more compassionate to myself and others. When you are running a startup, it often feels like what you or your team is doing is not enough. The amount of workload is limitless and it almost always feels like you are not doing a good job. While this is not unusual for startup founders, it was unsustainable for me so I needed to learn a way of thinking that could alleviate some of the pressure. After reading the book, I learned how to observe my own feelings and actions, then redirect them towards a better outcome for me.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
My favorite quote is in Korean and there is no exact translation. Roughly translated, it’s akin to “Que sera, sera” or “whatever will be, will be” or “just go for it”. I sometimes hesitate to start new and unfamiliar things so I often have to give myself an extra nudge to take that leap.
You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. 🙂
I think the larger movement is about providing all people with better nutrition options. And transparency! People should know exactly what is in their food from day one and into adulthood. NAMUH is a nutrition company at its core, and our goal is to provide nutrition that is beneficial to your body, not something that simply meets a low existing bar. I’m passionate about this and want to create standards for the baby formula industry that make it easy for parents and caregivers to understand what babies are receiving nutritionally when they select a particular infant formula as compared to breast milk.
This also goes for each individual. What is the biggest investment that never goes wrong? It’s an investment in yourself. Go learn something, go work at an interesting company, and have smarter friends.
As a part of our series called “Making Something From Nothing”, I had the pleasure of interviewing Ganesh Swami.
Ganesh Swami is the co-founder and CEO of Covalent, a Coinbase Ventures and Binance Labs backed data provider that brings visibility to billions of Web3 data points. Swami has over a decade of experience working with database technologies and bringing new products to market.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we dive in, our readers would love to learn a bit more about you. Can you tell us a bit about your “childhood backstory”?
I started my career in building protein simulation algorithms to solve cancer and my entry into blockchains crypto was quite accidental. I’ve always had this idea that the blockchain space required a standardized method to interact with, and I ended up scratching this itch at a weekend hackathon. I ended up winning that hackathon and starting a company to commercialize that project. So that was my entry into the crypto market.
Please share your favorite life lesson quote and how it was relevant to your life.
Jeff Bezos has this quote, “focus on things that do not change, not things that change”. So what are things that don’t change in society? People want things to be cheaper. People want excellent support. If you focus on that, as opposed to the new shiny thing, that gives you more room to experiment. With Covalent, we know that regular people will interact with web3 and crypto, and they don’t want to learn new stuff, they don’t want to retrain themselves, they don’t want to change the tooling, they don’t want to change the processes. That’s why this middleware technology makes a lot of sense, it really facilitates the adoption of crypto and FinTech.
This also goes for each individual. What is the biggest investment that never goes wrong? It’s an investment in yourself. Go learn something, go work at an interesting company, and have smarter friends.
People seem to struggle in taking a good idea and translating it into an actual business. Can you share a few ideas from your experience about how to overcome this challenge?
My first piece of advice is to stop being a perfectionist. A lot of people have amazing ideas and have the execution abilities to make it come true, but what stops them is actually their own mind of having to make sure everything is perfect. There is no guarantee that everything will go the way you imagined, especially in the business world, you have to learn and adapt. The best way to do that is to start acting the moment you have the framework set up, and work bit by bit to craft it how you envision it to become.
Often when people think of a new idea, they dismiss it saying someone else must have thought of it before. How would you recommend that someone go about researching whether or not their idea has already been created?
When an idea hits you so strongly that it motivates you to undertake such an endeavor, it is likely because you understand the value that you are trying to create. These ideas don’t just come from anywhere, they come from years of experience and dedication to a field or craft. You are immersed in an industry or culture and you notice something is missing, so you set off to build something to fill that void in a way that will create value and improve upon what already exists.
Please outline the steps one has to go through, from when they think of the idea, until it finally lands in a customer’s hands.
This really depends on the type of products, some may require more steps and some are easier than others. Think about patents, supply chains, fundraising etc. However, generally, I think most of the products still follow the steps below.
Let’s imagine that a reader reading this interview has an idea for a product that they would like to invent. What are the first few steps that you would recommend that they take?
It is imperative to first understand the market you are getting into, and how your product will impact that market. You must also have a strong grasp on your target customers and how you want them to interact with your product.
After going through these steps and outlining near and long term plans, the next phase is formulating what types of individuals you will need on your team, and how to go about assembling a high quality group to bring your idea to life.
There are many invention development consultants. Would you recommend that a person with a new idea hire such a consultant, or should they try to strike out on their own?
The answer really depends on who you are and what you aspire to do. Generally, I would say that nobody knows your idea like you and your team do, and if you are smart in building a highly effective and capable team, those sorts of problems will be much easier to solve internally.
What are your thoughts about bootstrapping vs looking for venture capital? What is the best way to decide if you should do either one?
There are pros and cons for both, and Covalent has gone through both stages. Having Venture Capital’s funding at your back in the beginning is definitely a good feeling for any start-ups. You will have the ability to accelerate at the speed that is way faster than your peers, but at the same time, you are risking losing control of your company. Covalent started in a bear cycle in the market, which meant that we were in a pretty bad position looking for venture capital in the very beginning. We were bootstrapped, and that gave us the freedom to focus more on our product and our customers. Without all the glamorous factors of the business of meeting and keeping up with the relationships with investors, our small team could really dedicate 100% of our time into developing the best product based on the customer feedback.
How have you used your success to make the world a better place?
At Covalent, we truly believe in the promise of blockchain technology. It is our mission to help developers, founders, hobbyists and anybody who is curious about this new technology to unlock its full potential through data visibility.
By bringing visibility to billions of Web3 data points, we are helping to support the pioneers building the future of Web3.
If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be?
It will be the data movement. I think today data skills have to be a key life skill, and the reason for that is because the world is more complicated today than it was like 20 years ago, or even 50 years ago. A lot of people have internal agendas that try to push on you. For example, with election numbers, with the vaccines and COVID numbers? Every politician has their own agenda that they’re pushing on to you. It’s not clear what is true and what is not true. The only way to understand these things is to go back to the data and understand and crunch the numbers and verify for yourself if this is valid or not.
So a movement that I would like to contribute is to teach millions of people how to crunch numbers, how to understand the data, and how to apply first principles thinking to come to your own conclusion.
Thank you for these fantastic insights. We greatly appreciate the time you spent on this.
The Great Resignation & The Future Of Work: Adrian Jonklass Of Covalent On How Employers and Managers Need To Adjust To The Future Of Work
An Interview With Fotis Georgiadis
I am very optimistic about the desire for innovation. It is exciting to see so many motivated and intelligent people coming together across the globe, connected by technology, to work on projects with a tangible goal of changing the world for the better.
As a part of this series, we had the pleasure of interviewing Adrian Jonklass.
Adrian Jonklass is CFO, COO, and head of research at Covalent, a Coinbase Ventures and Binance Labs backed data provider that brings visibility to billions of Web3 data points. Jonklass has 15+ years of executive experience across multiple ventures, including co-founding Dignii — a leading data platform derived from human insights.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Can you please tell us about one or two life experiences that most shaped who you are today.
I graduated close to the top of my class from a top 50 MBA program into the recession following the dotcom bust in 2002. As there were mass layoffs in Tech, I worked a variety of jobs that I would have never have considered doing, including selling cars and conducting market research on real estate foreclosures. Those experiences helped me in my subsequent career in market research and consulting to real estate developers and family offices in Dubai. Over a decade later, as a well rounded business person, I was able to realize my dreams of being a tech entrepreneur.
What do you predict will be the same about work, the workforce and the workplace 10–15 years from now? What do you predict will be different?
Remote and hybrid work models are certainly here to stay. For many companies, applying flexible policies when it comes to in-person or remote work is crucial for both attracting talent and streamlining productivity.
It is impossible to predict the future, especially considering how much has changed in the past two years. However, for Web3-based organizations, the idea of “decentralization” now transcends beyond the blockchain and is often brought to life in the workplace — projects no longer require all team members to be in one place, and instead talent is scattered across the globe and engage in virtual collaboration. At Covalent, we implement a hybrid and flexible work model with a core team based in Greater Vancouver and a distributed team throughout Canada and a few countries globally. For the team in Greater Vancouver, most come in to our amazing 5,000 square foot office 3–4 times a week.
What do you predict will be the biggest gaps between what employers are willing to offer and what employees expect as we move forward? How can employers reconcile those gaps?
It is important for any employer to do their best to understand the needs of their employees, as well as the best ways to attract the highest level of talent.
An approach that has worked well for Covalent is placing equal emphasis on hiring candidates who share our core values and candidates who have the skill set required for the open role. In our experience, employees who share the same values are more willing to embrace the changes that all startups experience, including taking on new roles and responsibilities. This helps with our retention as well as opening up new learning, development, and career opportunities.
We’ve all read the headlines about how the pandemic reshaped the workforce. What societal changes do you foresee as necessary to support a future of work that works for everyone?
The workforce is changing at an increasing rate and hence re-training and re-education are key. It is interesting to see emergent models, such as “train now; pay when placed,” become more popular, in this case, with the training institute taking on part of the risk of the training being relevant. An innovation we are seeing in Web3 is the emergence of decentralized and on-chain credentials, which can remove gatekeepers and friction around access to credentials, transcripts, records of employment, and other achievements. In Web3, we also see implementations of Universal Basic Income, which is a stipend that is available to anyone who wants, to cover basic living expenses so to allow more people to take on unpredictable gig-work, start an entrepreneurial venture, or take up artistic and creative pursuits. These and much more innovation are required to retrain the tens of millions of people who will be displaced by workers who are digital native and who trained to use digital tools.
What is your greatest source of optimism about the future of work?
I am very optimistic about the desire for innovation. It is exciting to see so many motivated and intelligent people coming together across the globe, connected by technology, to work on projects with a tangible goal of changing the world for the better.
That is one of the most enthralling aspects of the blockchain industry in particular — how contagious the excitement and energy is, and how motivated the whole space is to build products with immense real-world value.
What innovative strategies do you see employers offering to help improve and optimize their employee’s mental health and wellbeing?
Mental health and well being is critical to both individual and team success. The hardships brought on by the pandemic served as a wake-up call to many businesses to acknowledge and tackle this important topic.
By offering flexible remote work policies, employers are putting more trust in their employees than ever, which fosters a relationship of mutual respect and accountability. We ensure our benefit plan has mental health related coverage.We also use a 4-day work week in the Summer to encourage people to get outside and enjoy the beautiful region we live in and to promote mental health and work life balance.
It seems like there’s a new headline every day. ‘The Great Resignation’. ‘The Great Reconfiguration’. And now the ‘Great Reevaluation’. What are the most important messages leaders need to hear from these headlines? How do company cultures need to evolve?
The most important message any leader can take away from these headlines is to care for your employees as real people, and not just as members of a business. People want to be seen and heard, and they want to feel like they are part of a team where they are valued.
What’s your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? And how has this quote shaped your perspective?
I like the quote [from the Bible] that, “There is a time for everything, and a season for every[thing].” The current season may feel like Winter, so we should do the things that we do well in Winter, which is, to sharpen our tools, build our skills, processes, and capacity i.e. get prepared and ready for the inevitable Spring and the growth to come. Covalent was born in a crypto bear market and are well poised to use this Season not just to survive but to potential increase our market share.
Our readers often like to continue the conversation with our featured interviewees. How can they best connect with you and stay current on what you’re discovering?
Visit our website — covalenthq.com — where you can see everything that the team at Covalent is working so hard to build. We post blogs, and reviews frequently. Also follow our Twitter account (@Covalent_HQ) and Telegram channel to remain updated on community and product developments.
This was so informative, thank you so much! We wish you continued success!
Meet The Disruptors: Ido Wiesenberg Of Voyantis On The Five Things You Need To Shake Up Your Industry
An Interview With Fotis Georgiadis
It’s meaningless to spend time, money, and resources towards building a product that only sounds good in theory, but might not actually be used in practice. As such, it is important to have close ties with the market early on, to understand what is really needed, which has yet to uniquely exist.
As a part of our series about business leaders who are shaking things up in their industry, I had the pleasure of interviewing Ido Wiesenberg.
Ido Wiesenberg is a husband, father to three, and the CEO and co-founder of Voyantis, a predictive growth OS that enables growth and marketing teams to acquire and retain high-value users for greater long-term profitability.
Before Voyantis, Ido co-founded Tvinci, an OTT TV solution that was acquired by Kaltura in 2014. He was later selected by Forbes as one of the most promising entrepreneurs in Israel.
Ido has over 20 years of experience in building sales, growth and marketing teams, and a proven record of helping novice entrepreneurs set up their ventures through his mentorship with the Techstars accelerator program.
Ido enjoys playing a direct hand in helping entrepreneurs succeed through wisdom he gained along his own entrepreneurial journey, and by exposing them to innovations that will help support business goals. He is also a transformative speaker that presents actionable insights on these topics, in addition to ways to elevate user acquisition and growth.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we dig in, our readers would like to get to know you a bit more. Can you tell us a bit about your “backstory”? What led you to this particular career path?
My foundation is the fact that I came from a very creative family — with a musician father and brother, and a choreographer mother. As such, it was always clear to me that I will also be a part of creating something. By extension, since business elements interested me from a young age, I channeled my creativity into building different businesses from a very young age.
I got my start in the advertising industry about 20 years ago, as an Adobe flash master. I worked with top leading brands in Israel, including top ad agencies just as they were starting to go digital. Soon after that, I started my first company, Frido, which was a boutique digital marketing company. That led to my start in video and websites, which led to me co-founding Tvinci, an OTT TV solution that was acquired by Kaltura in 2014. In 2020, I co-founded Voyantis with Eran Friendinger, and the rest is history.
Can you tell our readers what it is about the work you’re doing that’s disruptive?
I am a big believer that the whole growth marketing industry will experience a shift from acting in a retrospective manner, to taking a futurespective approach. These days, it has become clear that the way decisions are made on a daily basis should be changed into a more scientific way using machine learning. As such, in a few years, predictive growth will be standard. This is an essential part they are making decisions and acting on data, and it will be a strong part of the workflow. I am pleased with my role in this change, through Voyantis’ predictive growth platform.
Can you share a story about the funniest mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?
Back in the Tvinci-days, I had a successful meeting with an investor who agreed to invest $250,000. I was happy with the amount, and sure that I wouldn’t need another dollar — so I communicated that to all the other investors. I was certain that $250K was enough for Tvinci to be profitable.
Three months after that, after realizing I had spoken too soon and said too much, I returned to the same investors, and luckily they were nice enough to invest. Tvinci made major strides since then, and those investors continue to be my investors today in Voyantis.
That experience taught me to always keep some form of dialogue going, and not make major decisions in haste.
We all need a little help along the journey. Who have been some of your mentors? Can you share a story about how they made an impact?
On the HR side, I work for Dan Valach, who helped me build an organization with the right foundations, in addition to building for scalability. He also helped me implement the right work processes, employee empowerment, and to build values.
On the business side, Roi Rubin and Roi Erez help look at the big picture, and challenge me and assist in scaling from the business side, while always looking a few steps ahead.
In today’s parlance, being disruptive is usually a positive adjective. But is disrupting always good? When do we say the converse, that a system or structure has ‘withstood the test of time’? Can you articulate to our readers when disrupting an industry is positive, and when disrupting an industry is ‘not so positive’? Can you share some examples of what you mean?
We’re building a new category, which has its own positive, and less-positive elements.
While we understand that there is a strong demand for our solution, people are still not searching for it. Most potential customers are not aware of such a solution and our primary focus is how to educate the market first and then how to build trust in our solution.
There is a strong intent but it is still hidden, and our work by building this new category exposes this intent and explains, in simple words, why companies need to switch to the LTV-based approach.
Market education is a very challenging process, but on the other hand, it is also very rewarding when you succeed because it makes it easy to become a market leader.
So the reward is very big but you need patience.
Can you share five of the best words of advice you’ve gotten along your journey? Please give a story or example for each.
It’s meaningless to spend time, money, and resources towards building a product that only sounds good in theory, but might not actually be used in practice. As such, it is important to have close ties with the market early on, to understand what is really needed, which has yet to uniquely exist.
From the beginning we worked alongside customers and learned of their needs. We ultimately based our roadmap on real demand from the market, and shaped it based on actual feedback from live customers from the early days.
Every area of focus needs to be done with scale in mind. In our case, we saw that it was really important to focus from the beginning on a certain type of customers, with an understanding of how the same product will suit an expanded range of customers in the future. This is why, from the start, I stressed to build a product that would fit a large enough market.
It is also important to build an internal knowledge center from scratch, to distribute knowledge between team members. It was one of the problems I faced in my previous company, when we had over 500 employees, and new team members were coming on board. At Voyantis, we decided to build a knowledge base from day one, to educate each employee well in advance, as part of an onboarding process, to become an expert within a few weeks. We continuously enhance this process, with the understanding that this is another way to ultimately achieve scalability.
Our HR team was structured from the ground up to think about the employees from the beginning, while building a personal development program for each team member, in addition to a feedback loop, and instilling values — all of which extends to the management team as well.
We are sure you aren’t done. How are you going to shake things up next?
The current economic situation has made things interesting in the growth marketing front, and it will only get more interesting in the next year. I truly hope that an increasing number of companies will realize that the shift towards profitability, instead of the mindset of growth-at-any-cost, is becoming crucial. I realize that this means the market would need to be more educated towards this topic, and the need to act on unit economics. Decisions need to be made by growth teams based on long term view, not short term proxies.
With all this in mind, I hope to achieve massive growth by helping more companies predict and act upon data. Of course, I would also want to keep them beyond satisfied, because of the value we provide to our customers.
Do you have a book, podcast, or talk that’s had a deep impact on your thinking? Can you share a story with us? Can you explain why it was so resonant with you?
There are many books by Shimon Peres that have impacted my thinking. One that particularly stands out is, No Room for Small Dreams: Courage, Imagination, and the Making of Modern Israel, for reasons that don’t even have anything to do with politics. This book beautifully teaches about innovative thinking, optimism, going against the odds, taking on a long-term view, and having faith in your goal.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
Always look at the bright side of life. As an entrepreneur there are many reasons to be pessimistic. Every day is a whole new roller coaster, and there are many pessimistic people along the way that would try to bring you down. You must always remember to stay optimistic, with faith in your endeavor, and don’t give up — even on the most difficult days along the way.
You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. 🙂
As a member of the high-tech industry, it is important to help bridge gaps in the industry and workforce. We must bring in more under-represented people, including minorities, and people aged 50+ who have dropped out of the workforce, etc. The ability to help, teach, and lift people up as a whole is a win-win for everyone.
You don’t need a lot of money to validate an idea. The conclusion that I’ve come to is that I can validate so much of what I need to do without major monetary investments, and as soon as you see traction, that becomes interesting and exciting.
As a part of our series called “Making Something From Nothing”, I had the pleasure of interviewing Saad Alam.
Saad Alam is the Co-Founder and Chief Executive Officer of Hone Health, the largest online clinic that treats men’s hormonal imbalances, low testosterone, and increases longevity. Before founding Hone Health, Saad was the Founder and Chief Executive Officer of Citelighter, an education-technology company that helps students become writers using principles of neuroscience. Before submerging himself into entrepreneurship, Saad was the Director of Marketing and Sales at HealthCentral, a health-centric website that publishes medically vetted content. Before that, Saad led Market Research at Eli Lilly & Company for the $4B neuroscience franchise He was responsible for market research and insights development for leading pharmaceutical brands, including Zyprexa, Symbyax, and Relprevv.
Saad holds a Masters of Public Health (MPH) from Columbia University and an MBA from the University of Rochester, where he was the student body president.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we dive in, our readers would love to learn a bit more about you. Can you tell us a bit about your “childhood backstory”?
I’m a first-generation Pakistani-American. My father originally came to America to attend Stanford University on a full academic scholarship, where he received his Ph.D. in Particle Physics and was part of the largest particle physics studies in history, discovering several new particles in the process. My father made sure that my mother received her education when they came to the United States, something that was fairly uncommon in Pakistani culture, and she went on to become a financial executive. I was truly blessed to grow up with such loving parents that really encouraged me to be an acute academic student, but I also spent a lot of time trying to fit in and be accepted by my peers, and that came in the form of athletics. I started at a very young age and had to teach myself many of them because my parents didn’t grow up playing American sports.
When I went to college, I definitely knew that I was also an entrepreneur — I had a lot of entrepreneurial tendencies growing up and had many endeavors to make money, and my parents really wanted me to be a physician. I prepared myself to attend an Ivy League Medical School but ultimately decided that it wasn’t the path for me and decided to go to business school. After graduating, I went to run market research and development for a $4 billion pharmaceutical company, because I thought that it could help me be as close to the healthcare industry as possible while being able to have a large impact and support myself. I eventually realized that this wasn’t the role or path for me, as I wanted to be able to have a greater impact.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
“The obstacle is the way” — In life, if you believe that there are going to be nothing but a series of obstacles and you are already anticipating them, you will already be in the right mindset to attack them and be in a problem-solving mentality rather than feeling defeated that you have a challenge in front of you. It’s relevant in every part of my life as an entrepreneur and as a family man, I’m always ready for the next problem and trying to find the solution.
My father used to read me this poem called Sitaron Se Ageand what it basically said was that in your life, there are many different valleys and peaks to climb, but once you get to that peak, don’t become complacent. Always remember there are other mountains that are higher to climb. To never become satisfied and always look for the next thing that will get you excited in life.
Is there a particular book, podcast, or film that made a significant impact on you? Can you share a story or explain why it resonated with you so much?
I read voraciously, and there are lots of books that have had an impact on me. One book that really changed my understanding of how to manifest things into reality was Becoming Supernatural by Dr. Joe Dispenza. Dr. Dispenza had a traumatic spine injury while riding a bike and physicians told him he’d never walk again, and he visualized his spine healing, and within several months he was riding a bike again. The conclusion that Dr. Dispenza came to was that there is a mechanism that you can manifest things into life, and how you can take your thoughts and turn them into real-world actions.
Ok super. Let’s now shift to the main part of our discussion. There is no shortage of good ideas out there. Many people have good ideas all the time. But people seem to struggle in taking a good idea and translating it into an actual business. Can you share a few ideas from your experience about how to overcome this challenge?
I have a lot of ideas, but there are six things I always keep in mind when going through ideation.
Take time to think deeply about the problem you’re trying to solve. I have to go through a process where I fall in love with it. When I have an idea I record a voice memo, or write a note in my phone, and if I continuously find myself going back to that idea or concept, there’s a deep emotional attachment to the idea or the problem I’m trying to solve. Over the next 1–2 days I’ll use a whiteboard and start writing and start asking myself ‘Is it the idea I’m in love with? Is it the problem I’m in love with? Are there other ideas that could solve this problem?’ and I let myself become deeply attached to it to the point where it becomes my mission or my duty to solve this.
Just start while you’re still excited. While I’m excited I’m taking the time to do research, and have conversations with multiple groups of people to get their insight or perspective.
The business starts when it gets hard. This is when progress is happening. For many, this is when they will lose their enthusiasm, but this is when you need to take a step back and ask yourself ‘Why is this challenging? What can I be doing differently to work around the issues?’ and push through it. When you’re able to get through the challenging portion, that’s when the magic happens.
Failure is progress. When you’re failing you’re learning, and that’s the building of the business. What a lot of people will think is that this is the universe telling them that this isn’t a good idea and won’t work but it really is working — it’s just a matter of finding another way to get through to the other side.
Force yourself some time to think through the learnings and re-adjust. Sometimes you have to force yourself to de-couple from the process and take a step back and take a different viewpoint on what you’re trying to achieve. This can be really challenging if you’re deep into the operations process. To think about what you’ve learned to this point you need to separate yourself from the situation you’re in — go for a walk, listen to music, go play basketball, spend time with people you care about — and then you can typically re-approach the situation with a set of fresh eyes and think about how you need to re-adjust.
Keep moving forward — work hard and smart. You may get overwhelmed, but it’s important to keep the momentum that you’ve generated and keep on pushing. Generally when I hear people say they want to work smart and not hard I think that they are not the kind of people that I’d want to work with. I believe that you have to work both hard and smart in order to be successful and be able to bring an idea to life.
The concept of Hone Health was a byproduct of this process. At age 35, I found myself with a significant decrease in energy, loss of focus, and was putting on weight, despite eating perfectly, exercising regularly for 20-plus years, and putting a huge emphasis on ensuring I got enough sleep. After months of going to different physicians, lab work, and consultations, it was finally discovered that I had the testosterone levels of an 80-year-old man. What was more alarming, but in some ways reassuring, was when the physician that finally diagnosed me with low testosterone explained how common of a condition this is for men over 35 and as they continue to age. After experiencing this firsthand physically, mentally, and emotionally, I knew that there had to be other men out there that were dealing with the same issues, and trying to navigate the healthcare system the same way I did.
Often when people think of a new idea, they dismiss it saying someone else must have thought of it before. How would you recommend that someone go about researching whether or not their idea has already been created?
Here are three processes I go through during an ideation process:
The first step is to write a set of questions that a person may ask Google.
Google like crazy. Google as many different variations of that question as you can think of, and look at all the different solutions that pop up. You’re going to find a lot of organizational websites, you’ll find a lot of academic articles. You’ll also need to go to the second, third, and fourth page on that Google search to identify the businesses that are trying to solve that same problem.
Once you find the competitors — understand how well they are doing. If they are doing poorly, why? Is the need not there? is the execution poor? How would your solution differ? If they are doing well, you need to ask yourself ‘Is there room in the market? How would my solution be better? How much would it cost to develop? How much more could I charge? Can I take market share away from this competitor, and if so, can they pivot to catch up with me?’
For the benefit of our readers, can you outline the steps one has to go through, from when they think of the idea, until it finally lands in a customer’s hands? In particular, we’d love to hear about how to file a patent, how to source a good manufacturer, and how to find a retailer to distribute it.
First and foremost, you’d need to think of every potential manufacturer, vendor, or retailer you would need to use for your product or service, and find the emails or phone numbers of the owners of those businesses, and schedule time to speak with them. Tell them that you’re an entrepreneur and always present yourself as an expert in your field, and tell them what you’re looking to accomplish. You’d be surprised how many free calls you can have, and when you find someone who is passionate about what you’re working on — they will give you all the time in the world. Always remember — they are looking at you as a potential client and they want to talk to you
What are your “5 Things I Wish Someone Told Me When I First Started Leading My Company” and why?
Hire people smarter than you. I wish I had spent more time adding people who were veterans in the space and had done it before and I could go to them and say ‘Recreate this, but with this slight variation. Instead, I thought about how can I hire but spend all my time creating, but in reality if I had spent more time finding the right people and letting them create I think I would have gotten further a lot faster.
You don’t need a lot of money to validate an idea. The conclusion that I’ve come to is that I can validate so much of what I need to do without major monetary investments, and as soon as you see traction, that becomes interesting and exciting.
Fail fast and it’s never as bad as it seems. At first, I wanted everything to be absolutely perfect before I shipped. Now, I aim to create something that’s just good enough, ship it, fail, understand how you can improve it, and re-tool it. Generally, at the onset, I always use to think that failing is horrible and it was an indication that I was a bad entrepreneur, and now I approach it with the mindset of ‘I can fail at anything, it’s never as bad as it seems.’ You can always find ways to pick up the pieces and improve the process.
You will have to repeat yourself over and over. I felt bad about this early on, but now I don’t feel bad about this at all. I have to continue to repeat myself over, and over, and over again to ensure that the same message is resonating with multiple groups of people in the company, and it becomes part of their lexicon.
If the actual idea is bad don’t chase it down if the execution proves good. This may sound antithetical to the things I’ve previously said. Generally speaking, if you have an idea and you’ve tried to make it work 10, 15, or 20 different times, don’t go raise capital if you’re a really good salesperson if the idea truly isn’t unbelievable at the end of the day. You have to truly believe that if you take the capital you will be able to apply it and build the business. The mistake I made in my first business was exactly this. I shouldn’t have tried to build a venture-scale company and bootstrapped it a little bit more.
Let’s imagine that a reader reading this interview has an idea for a product that they would like to invent. What are the first few steps that you would recommend that they take?
Sketch it out with paper and pen — write it all out, draw it out, outline all the features and why this is necessary.
Go on Fiverr or Upwork and find a CAD developer to build a 3D model if this is a tangible product. If it’s a development product you’ll need to find a development shop that can help you.
Go to Alibaba and find someone to build the product as cheaply as possible. You’ll probably have to talk to 30–40 people to give them the specifications and the 3D model.
Build and iterate. You’ll probably want to work with 2–3 people on Alibaba to see different variations that are being sent to you so you can review the quality of the product. From there you’ll go through several iterations before finally landing on a supplier.
There are many invention development consultants. Would you recommend that a person with a new idea hire such a consultant, or should they try to strike out on their own?
If you’re hiring a development consultant you’re not an entrepreneur. I think you need to have the idea yourself, especially if it’s your first one, you have to believe in it, you have to think through it. I think development consultants are better for larger companies and not first-time entrepreneurs.
What are your thoughts about bootstrapping vs looking for venture capital? What is the best way to decide if you should do either one?
I love both, but it took me a while to understand the difference between which you choose and why. I’m sure that many young people starting out when building a business think that they need money, I was the same way, versus thinking that you can start a business, but you don’t need money. I think it’s important to have a clear understanding of the outcome or purpose of what a venture-backed business is and how fast it’s supposed to grow, and will the market you’re going into truly support a venture-type outcome that would make investors happy.
I have built several venture businesses, but for my next endeavor, I’ll want to bootstrap for as long as I can before I go to look for venture — if at all. I think that there’s a way to build a bootstrap business that is cash flow positive with very little money, it just takes a little bit more time and management expertise. I think you just need to think through the business model very carefully.
Ok. We are nearly done. Here are our final questions. How have you used your success to make the world a better place?
I am a cold-hearted mission-driven killer. I only build mission-driven companies that provide value and improve people’s lives, and I work like tomorrow is not promised and I make sure that the team around me is of like-minded people who have the same approach to the work and the task at hand. If I haven’t gone through the problem personally and had it impact me directly, I won’t build it — it’s just not the business for me.
You are an inspiration to a great many people. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger.
With Hone Health, I am leading the movement that I think is of the utmost importance — peace of mind, confidence, and perspective as they age. I think most people succumb to the idea that the best years are behind them when they hit 40 or 50 years old, and the reality is you have 2–3 good lifetimes left ahead of you, and we’re trying to teach people that through education and solutions to increase and enhance longevity.
Other movements that I think are really important are centered around self-awareness, desire and willpower, and momentum and manifestation. If people were more self-aware and could remove themselves from their egos a little bit more they would be able to accomplish so much more in life because your ego can hold you back from hearing the truth and understanding the next steps you need to take to become the person that you really want to be. I think a lot of people have great ideas but they don’t have the desire or willpower, so creating a movement to be able to tap into your inner-self to make sure you have an unlimited amount of willpower and desire, even when things get difficult. The last one, there’s this concept of momentum and manifesting your dreams and desires and a lot of people don’t understand how to do that, and I think there’s another movement being personified in the creator economy, which is you can basically create your entire life and it’s a function of what are the steps to do it because they can be easily replicated.
We are very blessed that some of the biggest names in Business, VC funding, Sports, and Entertainment read this column. Is there a person in the world, or in the US, with whom you would love to have a private breakfast or lunch, and why? He or she might just see this if we tag them.
Fred Wilson or Marc Andreeson
Thank you for these fantastic insights. We greatly appreciate the time you spent on this.
Meet The Disruptors: Anastasios “Taso” Arima Of IperionX On The Five Things You Need To Shake Up Your Industry
An Interview With Fotis Georgiadis
Exceed people’s expectations. Jump into the deep end and learn to swim. When you impress people and build relationships with them, they will be there to make sure you don’t sink.
As a part of our series about business leaders who are shaking things up in their industry, I had the pleasure of interviewing Anastasios “Taso” Arima.
Anastasios “Taso” Arima is the Founder and CEO of IperionX, a leader in developing U.S.-based sustainable critical mineral and critical material supply chains. Taso has a long history of identifying company-making projects and in the exploration, development, financing, and permitting of projects. He attended the University of Western Australia where he studied Commerce and Engineering.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we dig in, our readers would like to get to know you a bit more. Can you tell us a bit about your “backstory”? What led you to this particular career path?
I grew up in Perth, Australia, an area where industry is heavily reliant on mining so that is the industry I knew. It made sense to get started in the metals and mining space. After university, I started in mining finance, eventually founding a coal company in Alberta, Canada. I stayed in the fossil fuels area until I moved to the U.S. when I recognized the coal mining industry was on the decline. I wanted to align myself with industries with an eye toward sustainability, and along with my team, I created another company, called Piedmont Lithium, which we developed into one of the leading lithium projects in North America. After Piedmont was well advanced and with a strong management team in place, I began to look at other supply chains in the United States that are vulnerable and need to be re-shored, with titanium being a standout. We identified very quickly that both titanium mineral and metal supply chains need to be rebuilt in the U.S., and we have secured a very large mineral deposit in Tennessee, and have combined it with an advanced, highly sustainable titanium metal production technology. And that is why I started IperionX — to revitalize the U.S. titanium industry with a low-cost and low-carbon method for titanium manufacturing and extraction.
Can you tell our readers what it is about the work you’re doing that’s disruptive?
Our technology is going to disrupt the metals industry. Titanium’s weight-to-strength ratio is superior to that of aluminum and steel, can withstand extreme temperatures and is extremely corrosive resistant. Yet, due to its high price tag, it is primarily used in high-end, advanced applications, including fighter jets, ships and missiles Our titanium metal technology has the potential to enable the production of a low-cost, low-carbon, sustainable titanium. Not only that, but our technology also enables us to use 100% recycled scrap metal to produce high-quality titanium metal, enabling a closed-loop resource and socially inclusive green economy, the only of its kind.
In addition to our technology, we also have the rights to the Titan Project, a critical mineral project covering approximately 11,000 acres in West Tennessee. Our approach to minerals extraction will be focused on implementing highly sustainable practices, so much so that we often compare it to farming, including a big emphasis on land reclamation. To this end, we have partnered with the University of Tennessee’s Institute of Agriculture to ensure we are leaving the land in a better state than how we found it.
The combination of our technology and our Titan Project allows the potential for IperionX to reshore the entire mineral-to-metal titanium supply chain in the United States, with the intent of making low-cost, low-carbon titanium accessible to be used in a wide range of industries, including automobiles, medical devices, electronics as well as aerospace and defense.
Can you share a story about the funniest mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?
I was pretty young when I had to hire my first CEO. I knew whom I wanted, but I also knew I had to make the case as to why he should build this company with me. So, I took him for drinks and sold him on the job. I thought it went great. When it came time to pay the bill, my credit card was declined. I was out of money. I had to ask him to pay for our tab. I learned that dreaming big pays off, and to always carry cash.
We all need a little help along the journey. Who has been some of your mentors? Can you share a story about how they made an impact?
I have been very lucky to have incredible mentors. When I was just starting out, the owner of the Investment Bank I was working at took me under his wing and showed me a lot about what it meant to be a business professional and leader. I was able to see how successful businesses were from the top. It was a unique perspective that I certainly do not take for granted. These mentors and others were able to grow my network quickly. All of these professionals taught me a lot about building professional relationships that have helped me in all aspects of my life. I was a very persistent young professional and when I saw opportunities, I impressed people whom I wanted to learn from. I worked hard and tried to impress my mentors. That’s what helped me grow. Even today, after founding several successful companies, I still turn to my mentors to talk about business strategy, operations, and even my personal life.
In today’s parlance, being disruptive is usually a positive adjective. But is disrupting always good? When do we say the converse, that a system or structure has ‘withstood the test of time’? Can you articulate to our readers when disrupting an industry is positive, and when disrupting an industry is ‘not so positive’? Can you share some examples of what you mean?
When you disrupt an industry and the result is better for society, that would be a positive disruption… but when the outcome has detrimental effects, I would consider that a not-so-positive disruption to an industry.
This reminds of an interview Jon Sylvan once had with The Atlantic regarding his invention of K-Cups. His invention completely changed the coffee industry and since then, billions of these single-use coffee pods have filled our landfills.
I wholeheartedly believe our company is going to be a positive disruption in the metals industry. Many people do not know this, but the traditional way titanium is made, the Kroll Process, is very bad for the environment. It is dirty and expensive. With our HAMR technology, we will be offering an alternative that is not only more affordable but also sustainable.
Can you share five of the best words of advice you’ve gotten along your journey? Please give a story or example for each.
Exceed people’s expectations. Jump into the deep end and learn to swim. When you impress people and build relationships with them, they will be there to make sure you don’t sink.
“Buy low, sell high” was originally a statement that I thought was crazy. But now I see how it’s great. It’s risky moving into an area that’s new or doesn’t have a lot of competition. But as you work to build it up others will take notice and if you want to sell, then is the time. Always look to run toward opportunity especially when no one else is there.
Know when you are wrong. That’s easier said than done when you’re trying to build something. But if you are learning and growing, that’s part of the process. And knowing how to fail means you can recover faster.
Listen to anyone and everyone who will talk to you. My dad taught me that everyone has something to say. By listening to people in all walks of life you learn a lot about your strengths and weaknesses. You get to decide whom you listen to and who really knows what they’re talking about and whether it’s worth taking their advice.
It’s okay to be told no. Someone, eventually, the harder you work, will say yes.
We are sure you aren’t done. How are you going to shake things up next?
I believe we are on the cusp of the age of titanium. Right now, titanium is seen as a luxury metal, but we have the opportunity to make this metal more common in our everyday lives. And what a world of difference it could make.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
“You cannot escape the responsibility of tomorrow by evading it today.” by Abraham Lincoln. I don’t let myself procrastinate, and I try to get stuff done early.
You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be?
Recycle. If we can properly get rid of plastic, it would do a lot of good. There’s no sense in seeing garbage all over city streets and trash cans flowing over. We must care more about the environment. It’s a massive issue and it’s only going to get worse. We can have a positive impact.
The Future Is Now: Stevie Hopkins Of Dropolis On How Their Technological Innovation Will Shake Up E-Commerce
An Interview With Fotis Georgiadis
Starting several businesses at a very young age, I wish I would have been more open minded in teaming up with strategic partners/potential investors. I feel this insight and higher knowledge would’ve taken these ideas to the next level.
As a part of our series about cutting-edge technological breakthroughs, I had the pleasure of interviewingStevie Hopkins: CEO of Dropolis and SCP.
Evangelist of all things culture, creativity, music and more, Stevie parlayed his experience developing a disability advocacy brand into SCP Merchandising, the largest independent merchandising company in the entertainment industry.
He has helped build the merch brands of some of the biggest names including Billie Eilish, Unus Annus, Mitski, Carly Rae Jepson, Louis the Child, Freddie Gibbs, and more.
Now, he’s bringing both his unbridled enthusiasm for what’s next and the best of his expertise as a recognized master of merch to the web3 realm. Dropolis is-quite literally-the city of Stevie’s dreams.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we dive in, our readers would love to learn a bit about you. Can you tell us a story about what brought you to this specific career path?
I own a DIY disability awareness lifestyle brand that I inherited from my sister, who passed away in 2009. That led me down the path of printing and shipping t-shirts and other merchandise and in 2013 a local band needed some t-shirts printed. I’ve always been one to say yes to almost any opportunity. That band ended up growing rapidly over the next year and became a significant part of my life. That led to introductions to many managers in the music industry and before long I was managing merchandise for the likes of Billie Eilish and now I have one of the largest merchandising companies in the entertainment industry with clients from music, YouTube, Twitch, TikTok, podcasts, etc.
Can you share the most interesting story that happened to you since you began your career?
In 2020, I helped build the merch brand for a one-year YouTube project called Unus Annus. On the very last day of their one-year video series, they invited their friends that helped them along the way to participate in a live stream to say goodbye to the channel. They called me onto their stream around midnight and there was a live viewing audience of over one million people. The success of that live stream and the effect on merch sales required me to rent an entire separate building just for their project and we had to hire almost 50 full time employees. If it wasn’t for that YouTube project and success of that live stream, I’m not sure my business would have survived Covid given our historical dependence on concerts and live events.
Can you tell us about the cutting-edge technological breakthroughs that you are working on? How do you think that will help people?
We are building the first frictionless marketplace for NFTs that are specifically linked to limited edition collectibles and merchandise. Dropolis will add a new layer of opportunity for creators and collectors, both from a revenue and engagement standpoint for creators, but also a new simpler yet amplified way for fans to collect.
How do you think this might change the world?
The advent of Blockchain and digital assets and its use case for physical collectibles and engaging with fans is going to provide a more efficient economic model around the secondary market for concert tickets, merchandise, experiences and other limited edition collectibles such as sports memorabilia, toys, etc. Collections will be “tracked” on the Blockchain and it will end up creating new ways for people to connect with one another through Blockchain-backed social media, etc. I feel that Dropolis will help expedite the adoption of web3 and Blockchain to the masses because it moves an everyday transaction to the chain and incentivizes people to collect and trade digital assets.
Keeping “Black Mirror” in mind, can you see any potential drawbacks of this technology that people should think more deeply about?
I talk about the “black mirror” vision of our future through the lens of Blockchain on a regular basis. Now that we all have phones and other cloud-based technology on our bodies at all times, we have an easy digital wallet for Blockchain collectibles in our possession via our phone, Apple Watch, etc. It’s only a matter of time before every public place is tapping into our digital wallets to serve us customized experiences and communications but also to use our wallets to commemorate what we do. Similar to a sci-fi film; as you walk down a futuristic street passing billboard advertisements and signage that morph to only directly target you. In another example, imagine getting your haircut and the barber/stylist dropping a token into your wallet and then going to a restaurant after your haircut for a date and receiving another token at checkout. Our entire life of experiences could potentially be tokenized on the chain as a chronological time capsule. That could very quickly be used for many things, by the government or companies. Blockchain and tokenization is the next iteration of digitizing our entire being.
Was there a “tipping point” that led you to this breakthrough? Can you tell us that story?
My merchandising company sells millions of merch items every year and after I discovered NFTs in February of 2021, I quickly envisioned a world where all of the items leaving our warehouse are tokenized. I’ve been building ever since.
What do you need to lead this technology to widespread adoption?
Blockchain and NFTs currently have somewhat of a marketing problem. There are many misconceptions and a lack of understanding of what the technology is and how it can be used. I believe widespread adoption for platforms such as mine is very achievable with time and a collaborative effort to educate people how to collect digital assets and to do so safely.
What have you been doing to publicize this idea? Have you been using any innovative marketing strategies?
We have not yet gone fully to market as we are lining up our initial content partners and working out tech developments further.
None of us are able to achieve success without some help along the way. Is there a particular person who you are grateful towards who helped get you to where you are? Can you share a story about that?
It may sound like a cliché answer but I wouldn’t be here without the love and support of my mom. I grew up with a very severe disability and still live daily overcoming the challenges of needing 24/7 personal care assistance. My Mom not only took care of me when I was young but every time I’ve started a new business she was willing to help me with the physical tasks necessary that I could not do on my own. When my sister passed away, she was the first person to jump in and help me take over the t-shirt brand and she has been handling customer service, online shipping, and hundreds of other tasks ever since!
How have you used your success to bring goodness to the world?
Whether it’s my own t-shirt brand for the disability community (3E Love), any of the thousands of clients in the entertainment industry that I have served, or the future customers of my web3 platform (Dropolis), I believe that I am helping to create unique items and experiences that bring people joy and create conversations. The conversations that our merchandise creates bring people together every day throughout the world.
What are your “5 Things I Wish Someone Told Me Before I Started” and why?
“Bootstrapping is not the only option”
Story: Starting several businesses at a very young age, I wish I would have been more open minded in teaming up with strategic partners/potential investors. I feel this insight and higher knowledge would’ve taken these ideas to the next level.
2. “Hire fast, fire faster, promote fastest”
Story: From my experience as a solo entrepreneur and comparing this to working alongside a brilliant team I’m grateful to call my colleagues, I’d always choose the latter. At the end of the day, you can’t do everything alone. If you’re in a situation where you have positive cash flow, it’s always a smart business decision to build-up in terms of staff. More creative minds, more jobs to fill, and more work being done. Creating a steady system of employee standards will allow the business to keep staff that meet company requirements.
3. “There is no playbook to building a business in web3”
Story: While building Dropolis, I felt the pressure to create something “perfect”. I quickly realized the web3 landscape is a constantly changing marketplace. There is no “perfect” model. From there on out, I trusted my vision to create something thoughtful that consumers would genuinely enjoy, utilizing this technology.
4. “Always reflect on your purpose”
Example: Ask yourself “why” and make sure you are serving that. Always come back to the core reason of why you do what you do. Without it, you can easily lose sight of larger business goals.
5. “Try to remain open to all opportunities that come your way; trust the process”
Story: I’ve had the privilege to manage Billie Eilish’s merch brand for over two years. It all started when I agreed to fulfill a twenty five piece t-shirt order for a show in California for her. Long story short: this relationship led to a multi-million dollar merch brand. While all this was a risk at the time, I knew I could get the job done and that opened so many doors for my career. I trusted the process and the universe rewarded me.
You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. 🙂
By meeting new people of different backgrounds, experiences, and ethnicities it’s allowed me to learn so much about myself that has helped shape who I am as a business operator. One thing that really excites me is to become that bridge for others. So many of us have brilliant ideas that never see the light of day. I’d love to be a motivation for people to get out of their comfort zone and flex their worth! Continue to put yourselves out there, I challenge you to have mandatory monthly trips or attend networking events that force you to meet new people!
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
I don’t count dollars, I count relationships — It’s my personal motto and something I remind myself of day in and day out. With that being said, I understand the importance of revenue in business — but building relationships was my key to longevity. The idea of sustaining these strong relationships have helped me maintain great employees during tough market conditions, opened the door to new business opportunities via referrals, and have truly saved the day when I needed external favors from vendors.
Some very well-known VCs read this column. If you had 60 seconds to make a pitch to a VC, what would you say? He or she might just see this if we tag them 🙂
Dropolis is the first marketplace where creators and fans can buy and sell NFTs directly linked to collectable merchandise, bridging the gap between the blockchain and the way fans interact with their favorite creators. Behind the platform, there is a fully integrated team of web3 strategists, merchandisers, marketers and developers who are creating a marketplace (Dropolis) that will onboard creators and fans on to web3 to provide an exceptional user experience and lasting benefits.
We aim to leverage the infrastructure we have built with SCP, the largest vertically integrated merchandising company in the country, and pair it with Dropolis, a creator and fan focused blockchain marketplace designed by web3 strategists and fan engagement experts to meaningfully extend the creator economy into web3.
… COVID really did put blockchain, NFTs and crypto in the limelight which is great, but like other disruptors of the space, tech maturity doesn’t happen overnight. The internet began in 1969 when Charley Kline (UCLA student) sent a message to the Stanford Research Institute, which was the first connection between computer networks. It wasn’t really until the early 2000s that it became mainstream.
As a part of our series about Wisdom From The Women Leading The Blockchain Revolution, I had the pleasure of interviewing Niamh (Neeve) O’Connell.
Niamh (Neeve) O’Connell is senior business development manager at CasperLabs. Niamh is a blockchain expert and has been at the forefront of the blockchain evolution since 2016. She is a co-founder of BlockW, a female-led initiative providing a platform for communication, education, and the discussion of ideas relating to careers in blockchain.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Can you share with us the story of how you decided to pursue this career path? What lessons can others learn from your story?
Absolutely. I always knew from a young age that I would end up in business after setting up little businesses, selling my neighbors everything from lemonade to locally sourced flowers. It was really during my undergraduate course (Business, Economics & Social Studies) at Trinity College Dublin — where I undertook some IT modules — that I started thinking about marrying the two: business and technology. At the time, these hybrid courses weren’t available, but they are now!
And so, in 2015, I joined Deloitte & Touche’s Consulting Division in Dublin, Ireland, which was heavily investing in disruptive tech at the time, and I had the opportunity to be part of the founding member team that was tasked with setting up and scaling their blockchain lab for Europe, Middle East, and South Africa (EMEA). I quickly realized I was most interested in exploring how blockchain could be used to disrupt supply chains, and how consumers specifically could really benefit from using the tech. So that’s really how it all started and I haven’t looked back since.
As for takeaway lessons, I would say that:
Just because you start a course or a job in one area, doesn’t mean you can’t shift gears. Your career path is a journey and shouldn’t be viewed as something linear.
Find a job in an area that you’re genuinely passionate about where you feel you could make an impact …it will make the late work nights seem not so bad!
The biggest factor to affect your career is your mindset. Be open.
Can you tell me about the most interesting projects you are working on now?
Yes there are a few that come to mind.
On the supply chain management side, we recently worked on a project with our partners at WISeKey, where we demonstrated the viability of using the Casper blockchain as the secure data layer for transmitting and communicating encrypted information with IoT sensors and satellite technology. WISeKey can now fully secure its IoT communications network with verifiable data to record and query information on the blockchain.
On the consumer engagement side, we’re exploring a range of VR/AI mobile activation campaigns underpinned by the Casper NFT across a number of verticals.
We’re building several bespoke marketplaces for a number of assets to enable trading and resell of access products.
This project is a doorway for mass deployment of farming, agricultural sensors, logistics, infrastructure monitoring, and energy sectors.
None of us are able to achieve success without some help along the way. Is there a particular person who you are grateful towards who helped get you to where you are? Can you share a story about that?
Yes, there are actually a few.
Tyler Mulivhill (Global Co-head of NFTs, ConsenSys) — Tyler is the reason I’ve been working in New York since early 2020. He asked me to move stateside and help scale out Treum’s supply chain & blockchain SaS offering and team.
Claire Fitpatrick (Enablement Head EMEA, TikTok) — Claire has been a great support and sounding board since we worked together at ConsenSys and continues to do so virtually.
Emma Walker (Director, Wayflyer) — Emma and I were introduced in early 2018, whilst we were both working in Blockchain in Dublin. We were both frustrated by the lack of women in the space generally. 4% of meetup attendees were women at the time and this minority told us they didn’t feel necessarily comfortable getting actively involved as a result. And so, that’s why Emma and I co-founded BlockW to foster awareness and inclusivity around blockchain and disruptive tech in Ireland.
What are the 3 things that most excite you about blockchain and crypto? Why?
At a fundamental level:
The fact that blockchains can provide verifiable proof of information. So, consumers can — for the first time — make more informed decisions before purchasing or consuming something. You can see the proof points beyond the claims brands make about their products. For me, a big foodie, this was a lightbulb moment!
The fact that information on the blockchain is tamper resistant (it cannot be deleted) is absolutely pivotal as we’re living in a world where censorship and a lack of trust are growing concerns.
NFTs (non-fungible tokens) which can represent ownership, an object (digital or physical) and even collect fees. They are paving the way for new assets and economies, through the ability to fractionalize asset ownership, create new revenue structures, new ways to engage with an asset, a brand and a community.
They have the potential to run the economy!
What are the 3 things that worry you about blockchain and crypto? Why?
The pace at which blockchain education is occurring.
Since mid 2020, a lot of people have been buying tokens for blockchain projects for quick wins following “market hype” but don’t know necessarily how the technology works or the expected utility. There’s a growing number of cyber-attacks generally, and so when people don’t understand the risk engaging with projects that were born during COVID and don’t know how to secure their digital assets, they are extremely vulnerable to attacks.
Blockchain is a long-term play. The technology is maturing and we’re far from mainstream adoption. We need to educate people. Transparency and education create trust. We need to get to a place where blockchain products can be insured.
2. The media are writing about the wrong things which create misperceptions to those not deeply embedded in the space in times of uncertainty.
Layoffs, for example, historically are sadly always a case in bear markets as a result of actions taken during long periods of economic growth. The blockchain industry is no exception and has come under even more scrutiny because it came on more people’s radar as a result of the global COVID crisis.
Blockchain and NFTs actually provide a new medium for content creators to monetize their assets, opening up more opportunities.
3. The speed at which standards & regulation come into play which ties back to my first point around time. COVID really did put blockchain, NFTs and crypto in the limelight which is great, but like other disruptors of the space, tech maturity doesn’t happen overnight. The internet began in 1969 when Charley Kline (UCLA student) sent a message to the Stanford Research Institute, which was the first connection between computer networks. It wasn’t really until the early 2000s that it became mainstream.
As you know there are not that many women in your industry. Can you share 5 things that you would advise to other women in the blockchain space to thrive?
Connect with other women and other blockchain enthusiasts in the space — community is everything.
Put yourself out there — if you’ve an idea and a community is bought into it, they’ll help make it happen. Look at the number of DAOS that are out there!
Bring more women generally into this space — we’ve a lot of catching up to do!
Attend conferences, meet ups and webinars for continuous learning.
Connect with me on LinkedIn.
Can you advise what is needed to engage more women into the blockchain industry?
Change at a policy level. Education needs to start at an elementary/primary school level as kids’ values and views are shaped from as young as four.
DAOs to replace the broken and outdated corporate structures that are in place which cause more harm than good and stifle change.
More “coder dojo”-type programs, but also non-tech programs for those on the business and arts side of things for all ages.
Better company mandates that encourage women to apply and support particularly around massive decisions like starting or delaying parenthood.
Mature blockchain products and tools freely available which can be downloaded via an app store. Decentralized app stores will be here in the next 3 years.
What is your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share a story of how that had relevance to your own life?
“Try To Be A Rainbow In Someone’s Cloud” — Maya Angelou
I value how we treat one another above all else, which is something that’s completely within our control and so I treat a stranger, a best friend or a colleague the exact same. You just don’t know what someone is going through at a given time and everyone would be physically, mentionally and emotionally better off with positivity, so I live by this.
In a meeting or out with my friends, what you see is what you get.
You are a person of great influence. If you could start a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. 🙂
It would be focused around DAOs (decentralized autonomous organizations).
Forming DAOs at a country and then global level which are formed around maintaining a sustainable planet and even leaving it in better condition.
People could participate and contribute to as many “programs” via digital immersive experiences and then also meet up and participate with their communities as they travel or move around the world. Let’s say one is around a circular economy, so members’ actions are all focused on reducing, reusing, and redistributing finite resources like water and food. This enables global problems to be addressed and anyone can actually contribute and see the impact/effect it is having because it’s all evident and provable on the blockchain.
How can our readers further follow your work online?
… A love of travel. Some people hate to fly. Others hate waking up in hotel rooms and wondering where they are. If you want to work as a keynote speaker, you’d better love to travel! Although I do a fair number of virtual gigs, I travel three or four times each month for out-of-town events.
At some point in our lives, many of us will have to give a talk to a large group of people. What does it take to be a highly effective public speaker? How can you improve your public speaking skills? How can you overcome a fear of speaking in public? What does it take to give a very interesting and engaging public talk? In this interview series called “5 Things You Need To Be A Highly Effective Public Speaker” we are talking to successful and effective public speakers to share insights and stories from their experience. As a part of this series, we had the pleasure of interviewing Brittany Hodak.
Brittany Hodak is an award-winning entrepreneur, author, and customer experience speaker who has delivered keynotes across the globe to organizations including American Express and the United Nations. She has written hundreds of articles for Forbes, Adweek, Success, and other top publications; she has appeared on programs on NBC, CBS, ABC, and CNN; and she has worked with some of the world’s biggest brands and entertainers, including Walmart, Disney, Katy Perry, and Dolly Parton. Entrepreneur magazine calls her “the expert at creating loyal fans for your brand.” Brittany’s debut book, Creating Superfans, will be in stores in January 2023.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Our readers would love to get to know you a bit better. Can you tell us the story of how you grew up?
I grew up in a small town called Roland, Oklahoma. When I was 16, I got my first job as a radio station mascot — I got to dress up in a bee costume, which I thought was the coolest job in the world! That led to more jobs at the radio station, including a really fun feature called Brittany Jones Diary after my maiden name, as a nod to the Bridget Jones films. I interviewed rockstars when they came to town and wrote about it for the station’s website. That path inspired me to work for record labels and then ultimately launch my own entertainment marketing company.
Can you share a story with us about what brought you to this specific career path?
I’ve always loved speaking, but I never considered pursuing it as a career. I always worked in the entertainment industry, helping recording artists connect with their fans. Several years ago, I was on Shark Tank. After my appearance on the show, I started getting lots of requests to speak. I’ve always loved customer experience, so I gave it an entertainment spin (“creating superfans”) and started speaking to and consulting for great organizations across the country.
Can you tell us the most interesting story that happened to you since you began your career?
I was keynoting at an event recently when a fire alarm went off in the hotel. At first, attendees thought it was part of the keynote. When it didn’t end in a few seconds I said, “I think we should probably all go outside?” and several hundred of us made our way downstairs and outside until the hotel declared “all clear.” It turns out it was a relatively-harmless fire in the kitchen, so we were able to finish the event. It certainly made for a memorable experience!
Can you share a story about the funniest mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?
I knew nothing about speaking professionally. I was an entrepreneur who became a keynote speaker by accident because several companies requested that I speak to their teams. It wasn’t until about six months into speaking professionally that I mentioned to a friend how time consuming it was to create completely customized presentations for every event. He kindly told me that I should be customizing some of my content, but that the key points for my main points should be the same. That was a game-changer, haha!
None of us are able to achieve success without some help along the way. Is there a particular person who you are grateful towards who helped get you to where you are? Can you share a story about that?
My dad was always my biggest cheerleader. He was a restaurant manager when I was a kid, and then a customer service manager at a car dealership, so I saw firsthand from him how important it was to treat customers and team members well. His passion for people helped fuel my love of customer experience.
You have been blessed with great success in a career path that can be challenging and intimidating. Do you have any words of advice for others who may want to embark on this career path, but seem daunted by the prospect of failure?
Yes: Accept the fact that you’re going to fail sometimes! Learn from those small failures and move forward. When you dwell on them and let them create fear, that’s when they snowball into bigger failures.
What drives you to get up every day and give your talks? What is the main empowering message that you aim to share with the world?
I’m obsessed with customer centricity — that is, putting your customers at the center of every decision you make. I love sharing that message, because improving customer interactions quite literally makes the world a better place. There’s nothing better than hearing an audience member say, “I never really thought about customer experience before, but now I get why it’s so important.”
You have such impressive work. What are some of the most interesting or exciting projects you are working on now? Where do you see yourself heading from here?
I’m thrilled that my first book, Creating Superfans, will be in stores in January! It’s currently available for pre-order.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
“People don’t care how much you know until they know how much you care.” — Theodore Roosevelt.
Too many times, when talking to a customer, we don’t take the time to listen to them. We lead with authority at the expense of empathy. We’re so anxious to tell them what we know that we forget to show them that we care. Whether you’re in sales, marketing, public relations, customer service, product development, or just about anything else, empathy is a critical skill. Why? Because the quickest way to get someone to care about you and the things you care about is to demonstrate that you care about them.
Ok, thank you for all that. Here is the main question of our interview. What are your “5 Things You Need To Be A Highly Effective Public Speaker?” Please share a story or example for each.
1 — A message worth sharing.
So many times people will say to me, “I want to be a professional speaker!” When I ask them what they want to speak about, they have no idea. The first key to creating a memorable, meaningful keynote is a message worth sharing. You’ve got to believe in your idea so much that you’re willing to advocate for it onstage for an hour (or more!) at a time, inspire others to rally around it, and deliver similar speeches dozens if not hundreds of times each year. If you haven’t dialed in on your message and your “why” yet, prioritize that ahead of everything else.
2 — Persistence.
Yesterday, an event organizer who saw me speak four years ago reached out and booked me for a gig. She said, “I’ve been following you for years. I love your newsletter, and I’ve always wanted to book you for an event because your keynote was one of the most memorable and impactful ones I’ve ever seen.” She and I never met, and she’d never reached out before. You never know who is listening and watching. Spend time dedicating yourself to improving your craft, and people will come to you.
3 — A heart for service.
When you’re a speaker, it’s not about you: it’s about the audience. You’re simply there to bring an idea or message to life that you want them to remember and act on. Familiarize yourself with the industry and/or company you’re speaking to so you can create a relevant experience for your client and show them that you care. After your keynote, be sure to answer individual questions and offer further support or resources.
4 — A love of travel.
Some people hate to fly. Others hate waking up in hotel rooms and wondering where they are. If you want to work as a keynote speaker, you’d better love to travel! Although I do a fair number of virtual gigs, I travel three or four times each month for out-of-town events.
5 — Great systems!.
Customer relationship management (CRM) software is key for my business. There are many things I have to do before and after an event, and my CRM will automatically set tasks for me so that I never forget a step. For example, after every presentation, I’ll get a reminder to send a thank you note. I also send clients a special survey to fill out so I can record useful information in my CRM, such as their birthday, favorite treat, and favorite charity.
As you know, many people are terrified of speaking in public. Can you give some of your advice about how to overcome this fear?
Absolutely. The best advice is to focus on the audience instead of yourself. If you’re allocating all of your energy to figuring out how to serve them, you’ll be less worried about your fears. Always remember that no one is there to judge you or find flaws — they all want to learn from you!
You are a person of huge influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be?
When any of us is interacting with another person, at the end of that experience the person will feel one of three ways: better, worse, or exactly the same as they did when the interaction began. I call these outcomes Net Positive, Net Negative, and Net Neutral. If you focus on making as many of your interactions (in real life and virtually!) Net Positive Experiences, you will be quite literally making the world a better place, one interaction at a time.
Is there a person in the world whom you would love to have lunch with, and why? Maybe we can tag them and see what happens!
Trevor Noah!
Are you on social media? How can our readers follow you online?
Absolutely! I’m @BrittanyHodak on all networks.
This was so informative, thank you so much! We wish you continued success!
Building bridges: Focus on building relationships with each other and with the existing community. The existing community is male-dominated, but many people realize that a rising tide lifts all ships — everyone needs to help and support each other for Web3 to reach the impact depths we all want it to and for mass adoption.
As a part of our series about Wisdom From The Women Leading The Blockchain Revolution, I had the pleasure of interviewing Chelsea Cain Maclin.
Chelsea Cain Maclin is the Co-Founder & CMO of R Labs. Chelsea is the former Vice President of Marketing for Bumble where she led brand, marketing, and partnerships teams, scaling the business to 100M downloads and a $12B IPO. In 2019, Chelsea was named as one of Business Insider’s 20 CMOs to Watch. An active angel investor, Chelsea focuses on womxn and BIPOC founders, within sustainable CPG, mental health, and safety sectors.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Can you share with us the story of how you decided to pursue this career path? What lessons can others learn from your story?
I have always been interested in the intersection of people, technology, and impact. I’ve also always been creative and entrepreneurial (I grew up painting outside and trying to sell marbles to my that I made out of mud). I went to college on a leadership scholarship, where I studied art history, studio art, creative advertising, and Spanish. Since then, my career has always followed the same interests — cutting-edge technology, people, impact, and creativity, ripe for start-ups and scale-ups.
My first foray into the start-up world was with a wonderful company called LTK, which was very early in the creator economy. We helped creators and small business owners (mainly women and under-represented founders), to build, scale and monetize their brands. Over the years, the business has grown to be worth +$2B. LTK laid the foundation for the intersection of my interests brought to life through my work.
The next most pivotal role I enjoyed was with Bumble, where I joined as the 7th employee working out of a tiny apartment in Austin, TX. Again, we were building for an under-represented market of women who were massively underserved within the online dating space. It was very rewarding to be a part of growing the brand to reach our goal of gender equity and safe online communities for women, men, and non-binary folks to connect, find love, and friendships. Over the years, I helped the team scale to 100mm global downloads and through a +$12B IPO.
I would advise others to look inward first and define what is most important to them for fulfillment and happiness, then to seek that in their work. Every 6–12 months, I reflect on the previous chapter and check against my North stars. How am I serving people through technology, creating meaningful impact, and harnessing creativity? Then, I assess where I’m headed. Setting North stars around the areas of your professional life and work that are critical to your own goals and happiness, and then ensuring your career path is aligned towards those is what creates meaningful impact in business.
Can you tell me about the most interesting projects you are working on now?
I am LOVING working with the team and our growing community at R Labs, who are deeply committed to having a positive impact on the planet and the people who live within it. We are launching our first NFT soon, R Planet. R Planet is our first inaugural NFT collection brought by R Labs and rooted in a deep belief that profit and purpose should go together. We asked ourselves — “What if your token could do more? What if you could use your tokens to support your favorite cause, and make money doing it? What if your Patagonia-collab token funded climate projects, gave you a limited edition jacket, supported a climate initiative, and made you money?” This is what we are building.
The NFTs and other products we’re launching will help fund real-world impact projects that provide under-served communities with access to mental health support, sustainable energy, education, and other services.
None of us can achieve success without some help along the way. Is there a particular person who you are grateful towards who helped get you to where you are? Can you share a story about that?
Geeta Sankappanavar, the founder of R Labs, and I connected almost two years ago. At the time, I was transitioning in my career and seeking the next opportunity that would intersect with my personal North stars. We clicked right away, and she soon became a mentor and coach for me during a time of change. She’s a leader I respect and admire deeply who encourages me and everyone around her to be better — from a leadership, team, and human perspective.
Her guidance is invaluable during times of key decision-making, both in the workplace and in my personal life. I’m grateful for her vision, mentorship, and leadership.
What are the 3 things that most excite you about blockchain and crypto? Why?
Innovation: We can create value in new and different ways. Web3 is about value creation, not value extraction — which allows us to rethink systems that don’t currently serve and build new & better products and tools.
Accessibility: The value created through blockchain and crypto is accessible to many more people than in traditional industries. For example, impact assets historically have only been accessible to wealthy individuals, groups, or institutions.
Community: We can create a community around shared values, vision, and mission and are not bound by geography. Blockchain changes the way people interact with each other, with brands, entertainment, and financial institutions. This is a deeper, more intentional level of interaction and community building, where transparency and accountability are paramount.
I believe we will continue to see mass adoption of blockchain and crypto grow over the next five years as these three pillars continue to evolve.
What are the 3 things that worry you about blockchain and crypto? Why?
Utility & purpose: Right now, many products lack real-world utility and purpose — the WHY. We in Web3 need to provide a sense of belonging, a trusted brand, and an environment that people can connect to. The internet made everyone a publisher — I saw this at LTK — crypto is going to make everybody an investor and allow them to be part of something greater. We’re building this at R Labs!
Safety: There is a lot more work to be done to ensure safety protocols for those interacting in Web3 and the prevention of bad actors. Volatility is a concern, but products are coming out with higher utility that is more reliable and less volatile.
Usability: There is a high barrier to entry right now for mainstream mass consumers. The fact is that it is still extremely challenging for most people to set up a wallet, make a purchase, and interact with that purchase is an issue. When we make the user experience seamless and convenient for the consumer, we will see mass adoption.
The crypto space needs to get easier, safer, less volatile, and more purposeful for more people to be interested in being a part of it.
How have you used your success to bring goodness to the world? Can you share a story?
My favorite thing I’ve done in the last few years is starting to angel invest and mentor, specifically underrepresented founders and creators. I’ve been fortunate to be able to write (small) checks with no strings attached and build relationships with these founders who are struggling with a lot of the challenges I’ve experienced in the past working with startups. The small group of founders and creators I mentor teach me so much, too!
As you know there are not that many women in your industry. Can you share 5 things that you would advise to other women in the blockchain space to thrive?
Building bridges: Focus on building relationships with each other and with the existing community. The existing community is male-dominated, but many people realize that a rising tide lifts all ships — everyone needs to help and support each other for Web3 to reach the impact depths we all want it to and for mass adoption.
Don’t work with Assholes: I feel very lucky to be able to work with people with shared values from varied backgrounds who truly care about each other and what we’re building.
Resources: Find educational and entertaining resources to learn from. There are so many but find a few that you like and find yourself going back to. Zen Academy and BFF are two of my favorite projects and resources.
Be mindful of your mental health, and that of others: Take breaks! Start-ups and the Web3 space are super-fast-paced environments. It’s important to have a life outside of work to be rested, rejuvenated, and our best selves. It can be an overwhelming space because of the speed, so prioritizing one’s mental health is critical.
Find a mentor outside of your circle: Seek out a mentor. It could be a peer mentor, who is outside of your day-to-day team, but also in crypto. We have many advisors at R Labs and they have all been incredibly helpful to me when I feel stuck and are great at taking me outside of my “bubble.”
Can you advise what is needed to engage more women into the blockchain industry?
I think there are some incredible projects that are already building bridges, like BFF, Crypto Chicks, and World of Women, where there are active communities, educational tools, and many resources. They are creating resources and safe spaces for women, and I applaud them for what they’ve built. For more women to enter the space, we will need a combination of access to communities, like BFF, that are built with women in mind, access to education and resources, and access to broader projects or initiatives that are not necessarily gendered. We need to continue to build initiatives for women, support existing projects, and build partnerships with leaders in the space who are focused on welcoming women and other genders to the space. Some of the things I mentioned earlier are things women are concerned about (safety, volatility) and we need to solve some of these before we see more women join the space.
What is your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share a story of how that had relevance to your own life?
“You have two ears and one mouth, use them in that proportion.” I heard this from Nicole Quinn, an incredible woman, and Partner at Lightspeed, but it originates from a Greek philosopher.
When it comes to creating a new business or product you need to be vocal, brave, and visionary, but at the same time, there’s so much that we can all learn. There’s a lot of thoughtfulness that needs to be put into these communities due to the risks in the space, but also because of all the opportunity that comes with connecting technologies and people from varying backgrounds. We should be really listening to the community, the folks developing new tech, and leaders in the space so we can better build, better serve, and make more helpful and profitable businesses.
You are a person of great influence. If you could start a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. 🙂
We are building exactly what I would want: pairing social impact projects, with creating a meaningful community through technology. This is it! You can check out our website to learn more at www.rplanetnft.xyz
How can our readers further follow your work online?
R Labs will launch a new purpose-led NFT project arriving to Web3 later this summer oriented around the intersectional impact in five core pillars including mental wellness, inclusivity, sustainability, education, and overall entertainment. Let’s make our tokens matter more. For real-time updates on the launch of the Summer NFT project, people can follow @RPlanetNFT on Twitter and join our Discord.
This was very inspiring. Thank you so much for joining us!
Making Something From Nothing: Anisa Telwar Kaicker Of Anisa International & ANISA Beauty On How To Go From Idea To Launch
An Interview With Fotis Georgiadis
To trust my intuition: My gut is always spot on when it comes to assessing professional relationships and business decisions. The times I’ve found myself in difficult situations, whether mentally or professionally, are when I’ve discounted what I felt to be true about a situation, a person or an action step needed for my business. Over the years, I’ve learned to always trust my gut and never doubt myself.
As a part of our series called “Making Something From Nothing”, I had the pleasure of interviewing Anisa Telwar Kaicker, Founder & CEO of Anisa International and ANISA Beauty.
Anisa Telwar Kaicker is the Founder and CEO of her namesake business, Anisa International. She started her business in 1992 and for almost 3 decades has pioneered the leadership, product development and culture of this globally branded business through the design and manufacturing of cosmetic brushes for makeup and skincare. She partners with the most esteemed brands in the beauty industry.
In 2003 Anisa International vertically integrated their operations by opening their own manufacturing facility, Anisa China, in Tianjin. Fast-forward to 2020 and through substantial investment in social and environmental sustainability, Anisa has expanded her operations by opening two new state-of-the-art facilities: Anisa Tianjin and Anisa Jinghai. Committed to cleaner, safer and responsible manufacturing, these facilities employ over 500 individuals dedicated to the practice of cruelty-free and ethically made products.
Now, after almost 3 decades of providing superior products to the best brands in the business, Anisa has chosen to further expand her innovation with a specialized category of cosmetic brushes focused on makeup and skincare application through ANISA Beauty.
Anisa’s personal reputation is equally notable and includes long-standing philanthropic contributions that span causes for homeless families, animals and the conservation of our environment.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we dive in, our readers would love to learn a bit more about you. Can you tell us a bit about your “childhood backstory”?
My name is Anisa Telwar Kaicker, and I was born in New York City. My dad was from Afghanistan and my mother was of Russian descent. When my dad got a job in Tennessee as a professor, my parents and my four siblings moved to Nashville. We were diverse and different, yet we somehow managed to make it work in our predominately white, rural community. While I consider Nashville where I was raised, I have always felt connected to New York City — with my fondest and earliest of memories developing there, since I was born is Queens.
Even as a child I was always a leader, and regardless of age I always had a feminist point of view, standing up for myself when boys in school would question my abilities. I was competitive in my achievements, valuing hard work and education. Because my parents were immigrants, I always saw their desire for us to have a better life than they had.
Individually, my parents both had a lot of energy and strength. They got married when my mom was very young, and my dad was older. They divorced when I was 15 and though devastating for me at the time, I now understand their separation was necessary.
As I entered my teenage years, I was rebellious, reflecting on the feeling as a woman of color held down in a small town. When I left, I felt like I could finally breathe and spread my wings. My parents constantly encouraged me to create my own destiny.
When I was in my late teens, forgoing completion of a formal education, I started working with the family business, my mother’s import/export company. In that time, I’d met a gentleman whose family was focused on cosmetic brushes. I thought to myself — cosmetic brushes link to fashion, so this was very interesting to me. I was going to take a trip to New York, as he was having a little bit of trouble selling his brushes. I was 21 at the time and he was 25. I agreed to help him out, and so I called on Revlon. I literally looked in the Yellow Pages, called the number listed and asked if I could speak to their brush buyer. From there, I just showed up. This is how I started working in the beauty industry and focused on the design and manufacturing of cosmetic brushes. I learned the art, craft and attention to detail from concept to completion. I had no idea what a gift this would be become.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
In my 50’s the mantra type quote I have resounding in my head is “We are what we think”. I am highly aware after these last few years, everything seems to stem from the thoughts we allow in our mind. Good and bad.
Is there a particular book, podcast, or film that made a significant impact on you? Can you share a story or explain why it resonated with you so much?
The Alchemist by Paulo Coelho. I reread this recently with my husband. I had read this when I was in my 20’s, and I loved this parable. The story to me shares how we learn in our life, and in a life well lived, we become wiser, we learn from our lessons, we pay attention to the signs that life can give us, and we trust the process.
Ok super. Let’s now shift to the main part of our discussion. There is no shortage of good ideas out there. Many people have good ideas all the time. But people seem to struggle in taking a good idea and translating it into an actual business. Can you share a few ideas from your experience about how to overcome this challenge?
Now more than ever we have many, many people taking initiative, building new businesses, big and small, following their desire to create something in the world that is theirs. I love this..it is brave and bold and gives all of us more wonderful access to passion driven products and services. The only thing I would say is it is OK to take your time with this journey. Plot milestones, create small wins. Be in the business and not above the business. Use the business to get better at what you do so it is clear that you are in for the long haul.
Often when people think of a new idea, they dismiss it saying someone else must have thought of it before. How would you recommend that someone go about researching whether or not their idea has already been created?
We have so much access to information that it can be overwhelming. We can feel like we are behind already before we even start, yet my approach has always been to research of course, see what is out there, so that you can differentiate. After this initial review, keep your head down and focus on your own business. Don’t get distracted by others!
For the benefit of our readers, can you outline the steps one has to go through, from when they think of the idea, until it finally lands in a customer’s hands? In particular, we’d love to hear about how to file a patent, how to source a good manufacturer, and how to find a retailer to distribute it.
This is a very detailed question, pretty tough to answer succinctly.
Product design is a science of intuition, market understanding, product historical knowledge, customer demand and need, and having the right team members and supply chain to execute.
This has come from 30 years of experience in how we design.
There are many nuances to good successful design. Make sure you have someone who is first highly passionate about design, yet also knows that it does not matter if you love it — you must be able to sell it to a market that wants and needs it.
There are exceptionally good patent lawyers that can help list this question. I use partners to file and support our process. I highly suggest a good partner to research first (within your budget) to get the proper education when it comes to patenting and beyond.
What are your “5 Things I Wish Someone Told Me When I First Started Leading My Company” and why?
1. To trust my intuition: My gut is always spot on when it comes to assessing professional relationships and business decisions. The times I’ve found myself in difficult situations, whether mentally or professionally, are when I’ve discounted what I felt to be true about a situation, a person or an action step needed for my business. Over the years, I’ve learned to always trust my gut and never doubt myself.
2. It’s crucial to delegate responsibility: I can’t take on everything by myself. It is ok to delegate responsibilities to my employees, and to trust them to get the job done. No matter what level we hire someone to work for the company, it’s important that their roles and accompanying responsibilities are clearly defined, with the ability to measure success quickly; without this, there could be gray areas where miscommunication happens, or tasks are not completed.
3. Always have empathy and give customers what they want and need, NOT what we think they want: It’s vital to understand the needs of my customers and clients, knowing their goals for success allows us to make sure we accurately execute the necessary actions to attain their ‘end-game,’ so to speak.
4. It’s okay to take time off: Burn-out from overworking and stress is real, and I have made many mistakes in the past in my business because I was exhausted and did not take the time I needed for myself. Yes, running a company is an immense responsibility, but I am also human. Giving yourself that mental break brings you new perspective and clarity that you may not have while you’re in the depths of your daily work.
5. Have a network of support, especially mentors and mentees: It’s important to have the guidance of a mentor and to have a mentee to give those lessons back to. We all have something to offer the next generation of entrepreneurs. Having the ability to giveback is just as educational as learning from someone else’s experience. As a CEO, I believe I have a responsibility to lead the next generation, as my mentors led me.
Let’s imagine that a reader reading this interview has an idea for a product that they would like to invent. What are the first few steps that you would recommend that they take?
Research the current market and determine if the item can be patentable!
There are many invention development consultants. Would you recommend that a person with a new idea hire such a consultant, or should they try to strike out on their own?
This truly depends on the field and an individual’s expertise. The more experience an individual has, (most likely) will determine the less need for a development consultant.
What are your thoughts about bootstrapping vs looking for venture capital? What is the best way to decide if you should do either one?
Everything has to do with one’s end game goals and capabilities. One size does not fit all, and these days there are hybrid and varying approaches. Business is just like an individual — complex, and layered. This truly depends on so many factors and the founder must assess what is right for them always.
Ok. We are nearly done. Here are our final questions. How have you used your success to make the world a better place?
I knew early on I wanted Anisa International and ANISA Beauty to achieve a more meaningful mission. The brushes are a hero to us because they help us do more than just create beauty tools. We ideate, design, and make well-loved tools in a sustainable fashion that benefits our employees, our consumers, and the business overall. My team and I pour years of experience into Anisa International and ANISA Beauty and we’re the best at what we do.
When I first started Anisa International, I took the reins on making the cosmetic brush industry more cruelty-free by developing cutting edge (animal-free) fibers for our clients. Now, with even greater control over our supply chain, development, and production processes, we can ensure each brush meets our stringent quality control measures. We can pay our artisan brush makers a fair wage, while significantly reducing our carbon footprint. Every brush we produce is PETA-Certified, cruelty-free, and sustainably made. While our team is a small sector of the beauty industry, I’m proud to say we’ve pushed to make our industry safer, fairer, and more sustainable than ever.
I am proud that there are people who want to participate in this business. It is so rewarding to see the ripple effect of the people who have been involved in Anisa International & Anisa Beauty and how it has positively impacted their lives. I want the business to be self-sustaining, and for the philanthropic impact of the business to live on long after I am gone.
Under the Anisa International mission, a percentage of our annual revenue is committed to giving back to our community in Atlanta. We are partners with Fernbank in support of lifelong learning of natural history, as well as charities with an emphasis on helping those in need including Families First, Georgia’s most prominent family and children’s services organization, and Atlanta Mission, the longest-running provider of service to homeless men, women, and children. We have a lot of love for our four-legged friends, too, and have had immense success in bringing awareness to and saving many lives through our partnership with Lifeline Animal Project.
Like Anisa International, ANISA Beauty is committed to being a strong ally in the fight for social justice. Since our launch, we annually pledge $50,000 to support organizations aligned with our fight against discrimination based on race, gender, age, ethnicity, and sexual orientation. It is an honor to partner with such influential organizations as Marsha P. Johnson Institute, Lost n’ Found, International Refugee Assistance Project, AAPI, Black Mommas Matter, and many more.
You are an inspiration to a great many people. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger.
What I hope for is people to give back. The world in which we live needs all of us to care. If we each chose a cause in our life, something we care about and gave that cause 5–10 hours a month our world would transform. We also would be happier, less anxious, kinder and more content as individuals. Giving back to be is the best and most healing medicine we have as a society.
Is there a person in the world, or in the US, with whom you would love to have a private breakfast or lunch, and why? He or she might just see this if we tag them.
I have been very impressed with the CEO from Dick’s Sporting, Lauren Hobart; she has blown me away with her support of women’s rights and people of color. She took a stand in a male dominated, conservative business. She gives me hope as she strives to create safe spaces for all with the company’s view of “everyone’s an athlete.”
I also read recently that she was part of the executive team of Ed Stack. The former CEO, who in the wake of the Parkland Shooting in 2018 decided to pull large-capacity magazines and assault rifles from their shelves. It is those tough (but right) decisions that truly make a good leader and company.
Thank you for these fantastic insights. We greatly appreciate the time you spent on this.
Making Something From Nothing: LaTisha Styles Of You’ve Got Clients On How To Go From Idea To Launch
An Interview With Fotis Georgiadis
You Don’t Have To Be Perfect — The very first time I started my business I wanted things to be perfect. I went through the entire process of creating a course, from scripting to recording, and then opening the cart but no one was buying the course. And I learned along the way that it’s okay to be imperfect and just dust it off when you fall, get up and learn from every experience.
As a part of our series called “Making Something From Nothing”, I had the pleasure of interviewing LaTisha Styles.
LaTisha Styles is an Online Marketing Certified Professional® and the Founder & CEO of You’ve Got Clients® a marketing consulting agency helping coaches create and fill their coaching programs with high-ticket clients. LaTisha is also a Psych-K® Facilitator who helps entrepreneurs shift subconscious blocks to establish the beliefs that form the foundation of their dream as well as shift any limiting beliefs or subconscious blocks standing in the way of that dream.
Before the business, the success, and the income, LaTisha always knew what she exactly wanted for her life. She had cultivated what she calls the “stubborn belief” in manifestation — the concept that you can create the life of your dreams by directing your thoughts. This belief led her to build a business that has generated a million dollars in revenue.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we dive in, our readers would love to learn a bit more about you. Can you tell us a bit about your “childhood backstory”?
In my early childhood, I can remember that I always had an entrepreneurial spirit because my parents have always taught us to do business in our own little way. Especially my dad. He has been one of the biggest influences on my entrepreneurial journey. I remember him taking me and my sister to a local Sam’s club which is a big box warehouse filled with wholesale goods. He bought us candies, gums, and a couple of other things to start off our first round of inventory. When we got home my dad explained to us how we are going to make a profit out of these candies. He explained the prices, how much we should sell each candy for in order to buy the next round of inventory, and how profit is calculated. It was the first time I learned about business, understanding that there’s a cost to doing business, and making sure that you stay ahead of that.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
“To the world, you may be one person; but to one person, you may be the world.” The first time I read this quote, it helped me understand how one person can have an impact on many people. That’s what really carried me through my life because that’s one of my goals, to be impactful to as many people as possible.
Is there a particular book, podcast, or film that made a significant impact on you? Can you share a story or explain why it resonated with you so much?
One of my favorite movies is The Matrix. I have watched this movie and the entire trilogy several times. The reason that this had such a big impact on me is that the movie is filled with a lot of metaphors and allegories. In the movie, they refer to the Matrix as “the world that’s been pulled over your eyes.” It’s a movie about self-discovery and understanding that what you see might not necessarily be true and it’s important to look beneath the surface. Especially in the first movie of the trilogy, there was a scene where the main character Neo came to a realization that in order for him to become the One, he actually had to choose it. It was like watching someone come to a realization of themselves and learning what that journey is about. And that’s exactly what I share with my clients as well. I tell them they should “Assume the Throne”. Similar to the way a monarch ascends, you might not feel ready; but at some point, you have to choose: this is who I am, this is how I want to show up, this is who I’m called to impact, and I am here for a reason. I think stepping into that energy is something that all leaders have to do at some point.
Ok super. Let’s now shift to the main part of our discussion. There is no shortage of good ideas out there. Many people have good ideas all the time. But people seem to struggle in taking a good idea and translating it into an actual business. Can you share a few ideas from your experience about how to overcome this challenge?
I often find that the biggest thing holding people back from translating their idea into an actual business is simply the mindset that the idea has to be perfect, or they have to be successful on their very first attempt. Sometimes we just have to try our ideas out and we have to understand that failure will be part of the process. From my experience, I had to get good at failing. I call it “failing forward”. Failure is not a negative thing. It’s just part of the process. I always try to slow things down and evaluate where I am and what didn’t work. I can then reconfigure my approach and do things a little bit differently in my next step.
Often when people think of a new idea, they dismiss it saying someone else must have thought of it before. How would you recommend that someone go about researching whether or not their idea has already been created?
I always say there’s nothing new under the sun, so even if you think you have a new idea or if you think that someone else has already come up with the idea. I suggest, just get over it and just execute and execute better than the others who might have the same idea as you. Take the rideshare industry for example. There are many players; Uber, Lyft, Grab, Flywheel, and many others. There are multiple companies with a similar idea and ultimately success comes down to execution, not just who will execute first, but who will execute best.
For the benefit of our readers, can you outline the steps one has to go through, from when they think of the idea, until it finally lands in a customer’s hands? In particular, we’d love to hear about how to file a patent, how to source a good manufacturer, and how to find a retailer to distribute it.
I can share the process of turning my idea of a book into a physical product. I had an idea of a book that I wanted to write and I just needed help to pull those ideas together in a way that is clear and concise. So I hired a ghostwriter and together with my legal team, we filed a trademark for the topic so I can also create spin-off content, workshops, additional programs, and other products and services based on the idea of the book that I wanted to write. As far as manufacturing, I contacted a friend who had also written a book and asked them for a referral to their book printer. As far as finding a retailer, I decided to distribute it myself. These days you have the entire world at your fingertips because of the internet, and so I decided to sell it on my own website. But there’s also an easy option where you can sell your book to an online retailer like Amazon.
What are your “5 Things I Wish Someone Told Me When I First Started Leading My Company” and why?
Get Your Hands Dirty And Do The Work — When I was starting out with my company I was literally getting my hands dirty and doing all the work.I don’t think I realized how difficult it is to find a talent to help me propel my business forward. So at first, I have to do all the work and slowly build a team to help ease up my workload along the way.
You Don’t Have To Be Perfect — The very first time I started my business I wanted things to be perfect. I went through the entire process of creating a course, from scripting to recording, and then opening the cart but no one was buying the course. And I learned along the way that it’s okay to be imperfect and just dust it off when you fall, get up and learn from every experience.
Get A Mentor — I quit my corporate job to take on my business full-time and I had a really hard time. I had to go back to work full-time because I couldn’t make things work for my business. So the next time I quit my job, I hired a mentor. I realized that you need someone to guide you. Someone who’s been there already and can show you where to step, how to do things, and what pitfalls to avoid.
There’s No “There” To Get To — I always had a vision in my head that once I get “there” I’ll be truly happy and successful. “There” is that proverbial carrot leading you towards the next success you desire. But once I do get “there”, I know I will still have another “there” to get to. I had to realize that there’s no ultimate destination and it’s just a matter of continuing on your journey, enjoying every moment, and making the most out of every experience along the way.
You’re Not Going To Be The Only One With Your Idea — I wish I had known that you’re not going to be the only one with your idea, and it’s just a matter of becoming the biggest and brightest in the marketplace to establish your spot. Make as big of a splash as possible so that when someone thinks of a certain word, they think of your business. I started out playing small because I didn’t want to offend or outshine friends who were doing something similar. I didn’t understand or realize that there are no feelings in business and I’m not taking something away from them by achieving my goals or reaching something bigger.
Let’s imagine that a reader reading this interview has an idea for a product that they would like to invent. What are the first few steps that you would recommend that they take?
If you have an idea for a product that you would like to invent, the first few steps I would recommend is to create something physical or tangible out of that idea. Create a drawing, start recording, or whatever you have to do to take that idea and turn it into something that is tangible in the real world.
There are many invention development consultants. Would you recommend that a person with a new idea hire such a consultant, or should they try to strike out on their own?
It’s generally helpful to hire someone that knows better than you. I would recommend that you first try to find some helpful resources within your community or even in the Small Business Association. Seek out resources that have already been made available for you before hiring someone in particular. And until you know exactly what questions you want to ask, wait to hire someone. Because if you don’t know what you’re looking for, you might just waste your time, money, and you might even get taken advantage of. So make sure you are an informed buyer, no matter what you are purchasing.
What are your thoughts about bootstrapping vs looking for venture capital? What is the best way to decide if you should do either one?
I am a fan of bootstrapping. I bootstrapped my business. Anytime you have other people’s money involved in your business, your decisions might get influenced by other people’s opinions. It might hinder the liberty of your creativity and get in the way of fully implementing your idea. So if you have the capacity to bootstrap your business, I would definitely recommend it over venture capital.
Ok. We are nearly done. Here are our final questions. How have you used your success to make the world a better place?
I have used my success to be an example that it’s possible for a Black woman to be successful in business. I wanted to prove the stereotypical norm wrong that someone like me could not have a successful business and could not have the income that I have now with my business. I truly believe in the quote “change starts at home”. I truly believe that the best thing that you can do to help the world at large is to improve your own situation first so that you can set an example to others and be that someone who can inspire generations.
You are an inspiration to a great many people. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger.
If I could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, it would be what I’m doing now, which is teaching women and minorities that you can absolutely charge more for your services. Stop charging what you think you are worth but instead charge what your services are worth. You have so much to offer and this is what I teach my clients, to have confidence in themselves and realize that what they do to help their clients goes above and beyond just coaching; it also creates transformation in their client’s lives. Therefore the pricing should reflect the outcome of that service.
We are very blessed that some of the biggest names in Business, VC funding, Sports, and Entertainment read this column. Is there a person in the world, or in the US, with whom you would love to have a private breakfast or lunch, and why? He or she might just see this if we tag them.
I would love to have a private breakfast or lunch with Issa Rae. I really admire what she’s accomplished, how far she’s come, and her discipline. Also with her being in the entertainment industry and seeing how she’s been able to maneuver it, I would love to ask how she creates contracts and handles negotiations. I would love to talk to her about these experiences and her ability to build a team, to connect with people, and how she has navigated her success from where she started and how far she’s come.
Thank you for these fantastic insights. We greatly appreciate the time you spent on this.
Meet The Disruptors: Erin Michelson Of Summery On The Five Things You Need To Shake Up Your Industry
An Interview With Fotis Georgiadis
Manage energy, not time. This advice has been game-changing for me since it enables me to harness one of my biggest attributes — my energy. By matching my mental state to the task, I can maximize my productivity. Energy maximization helps me, as a goal-oriented person, to embrace structure and simplicity in order to drive results.
As a part of our series about business leaders who are shaking things up in their industry, I had the pleasure of interviewing Erin Michelson.
Erin Michelson is a Forbes #Next1000 entrepreneur and recognized as a 2022 AI for Good ESG / AI Innovator by Women in AI North America. As Founder + CEO of Summery, she leverages behavioral science and AI to measure and activate stakeholder values and organizational culture.
Before turning to technology, Erin had a 15-year career in global finance and social impact consulting, working with companies such as Bank of America, Morgan Stanley, and American Express. She wrote the book series Adventure Philanthropist, after traveling to more than 100 countries volunteering with humanitarian organizations.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we dig in, our readers would like to get to know you a bit more. Can you tell us a bit about your “backstory”? What led you to this particular career path?
As a solo female non-technical founder, I’ve had an unorthodox path to AI. I had 3 degrees in political science, 10 years in global finance, and a career as a social impact growth strategist before turning to technology. Yet while industries may have changed, there was one constant throughout my career: a deep commitment to social causes and a focus on maximizing our individual and collective impact.
In fact, it is this diverse background and skill set which has made me uniquely qualified to build Summery, an AI-driven data analytic company that quantifies individual values and organizational culture. Our trained models enable executives to anticipate and implement changes in organizational culture, leading to increased retention, engagement, innovation, and brand reputation.
The need for this type of systematic approach to building and evaluating organizational social capital, the ‘S’ in ESG, was reinforced by Harvard Business Review research showing that companies benefit from executives with strong social skills, “including a high level of self-awareness, the ability to listen and communicate well, a facility for working with different types of people and groups, and what psychologists call “theory of mind” — the capacity to infer how others are thinking and feeling.”
Our team of scientists and engineers has developed technology that measures individual values — empathy, integrity, innovation, agility, and disruption — at the individual, organizational, and societal levels. Not only can we assess values, but also amplify and streamline social impact values and behavior to strengthen organizational culture.
Can you tell our readers what it is about the work you’re doing that’s disruptive?
Executives understand that a healthy culture is critical to attract top talent, foster product or service innovation, and catalyze organizational growth. But until now, there was no way to measure culture. With recent advances in artificial intelligence and technology, we can now quantify a company’s cultural IQ.
Understanding your company’s culture IQ benefits the bottom line by:
Acquiring and retaining top talent: In a recent Inc. article on the Great Resignation, recruiters are prompted to articulate a company’s culture during the hiring process by sharing: “This is who we are, and this is who we stand for. You decide if we fit you, too, and let us know.” But why not help the applicant decide if the “fit” is right? Now we can with values-based recruiting technology that assesses culture and value alignment.
Assessing ESG risk: Here Deloitte’s Kristen Sullivan discusses the C-suite and Board of Directors’ increased attention to timely reporting of ESG standards. With an objective set of culture metrics, compliance and audit officers can now assess operational, financial, and reputational risk associated with organizational trust and cultural toxicity.
Quantifying cultural ROI: An insightful piece by McKinsey’s ESG team highlights the necessity of social capital metrics while underscoring the difference between a company’s purpose and its ESG position. The ability to set an objective, transparent cultural baseline enables executives to measure the progress and investment made in ESG, DEI, and social capital programming.
Can you share a story about the funniest mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?
I don’t know if this is funny ha-ha or just cringe. During my first year as a CEO, I often participated in pitch competitions. It was a good way to get feedback on our product ideas and to practice telling our Summery story.
I loved pitching, and was good at it. I was on a winning streak, but this one competition — I totally bombed. To make matters worse, I was raked over the coals by the judges. When I returned home that evening, I vowed to rework my pitch and speak again at the next opportunity. I answered the first email invite in my inbox: a local San Francisco pancake breakfast hosted by the Kauffman Foundation, one of the country’s largest supporters of entrepreneurship.
A week or so later, only me and one another entrepreneur showed up for the 8:00 am competition. While early mornings meet ups are definitely a tough call for people in the startup world, I wasn’t quite prepared for folks sitting in the audience eating pancakes while still wearing their pjs. Nonetheless, I enthusiastically gave my newly re-worked pitch to the handful of individuals sitting in the room.
At the end of the competition, the event videographer complimented my pitch and asked if he could send it to a friend of his. Without knowing who his friend was, or why he wanted to send it, I agreed. He sent the pitch, and followed up with an introduction for the two of us. His friend happened to work at Salesforce in the area of innovation and culture. It was that introduction that led several months later to Salesforce becoming our first enterprise client.
While I made the mistake of bombing the pitch, I learned a valuable lesson: Don’t give up. What might seem like a setback can turn into an amazing opportunity.
We all need a little help along the journey. Who have been some of your mentors? Can you share a story about how they made an impact?
I’m fortunate to have many mentors as part of the Extraordinary Women on Boards (EWOB) Network, a community for highly accomplished women actively serving on public and private company Boards of Directors across a wide range of sectors.
These women from around the world convene regularly to learn together, share best practices, and help one another raise their influence in the boardroom. Several members, in particular, are a great source of support and inspiration to me: Laura Deutscher, Lorraine Henrickson, Wanda Lopuch, and Kathleen Murphy.
In today’s parlance, being disruptive is usually a positive adjective. But is disrupting always good? When do we say the converse, that a system or structure has ‘withstood the test of time’? Can you articulate to our readers when disrupting an industry is positive, and when disrupting an industry is ‘not so positive’? Can you share some examples of what you mean?
I love this question because we areliterally in the business of quantifying individual values and attributes like empathy, integrity — and disruption! Through our research, we’ve defined a disruptive person as someone who challenges the status quo.
What I like most about this description is that it isn’t our Summery scientists’ definition, but instead a more universal definition that we achieved through crowd-truthing. Crowd-truthing is an open-source framework for machine-human computation based on human semantics. By exponentially increasing the quantity and quality of inputs we can decrease bias and more precisely define the concept of disruption.
We work with our clients to both increase and decrease disruption in their organizational culture. We don’t look at these instances as “good” or “bad” but instead how useful disruption is to the goals of the organization.
Increasing disruption: We work with universities across the country. Many of these institutions of higher learning want to encourage disruptive and innovative thinking in their faculty and students. One way we increase disruption is to pair faculty and student mentors with disruptive values with other students who are seeking that attribute. As more individuals display disruptive behavior the culture of the organization evolves.
Decreasing disruption: In our work with Fortune 500 companies, we help them look at how disruption can be useful in certain job positions and industries, while not-so-helpful in others. For instance, technology clients often want their product teams to embrace disruption and “push the envelope” as they problem solve and develop system-changing business strategies. Banking and financial service firms, however, may want to decrease disruption, emphasizing the importance of staying within established industry norms and regulations.
Can you share five of the best words of advice you’ve gotten along your journey? Please give a story or example for each.
1. There is no “right” decision. This piece of advice was shared by a graduate school classmate when I was struggling with a personal decision.Oftentimes we can become paralyzed by weighing all our options and put too heavy a value on not making a mistake rather than optimizing our opportunities. I try to make a decision based on the best information I have at the moment. And then I make another decision.
Later I read World Series of Poker champion Annie Duke’s book “Thinking in Bets: Making Smarter Decisions When You Don’t Have All The Facts.” Annie’s work has helped me to further move away from the dichotomy of right and wrong and embrace the continuum between the extremes. As I’ve become more comfortable with uncertainty, I’ve been able to think more probabilistically and make better decisions.
2. Put yourself in a position to be lucky. Jason Roberts promotes this advice via his formulation of a “Luck Surface Area.” In essence, by sharing your expertise and passion, you are increasing the chances of luck finding you.
“The amount of serendipity that will occur in your life, your Luck Surface Area, is directly proportional to the degree to which you do something you’re passionate about combined with the total number of people to whom this is effectively communicated.”
3. Manage energy, not time. This advice has been game-changing for me since it enables me to harness one of my biggest attributes — my energy. By matching my mental state to the task, I can maximize my productivity. Energy maximization helps me, as a goal-oriented person, to embrace structure and simplicity in order to drive results.
I think of it like leverage. Leveraging my energy to increase the probability of success. For me this means I do creative work in the morning, calls and meetings mid-day, and process-driven work late afternoon. I also ferociously defend my calendar, limiting calls to 3–4 a day and scheduling time for strategic thinking.
4. “Thank you for being late.” Steve Ketchpel, one of my advisors, said this to me once as I rushed to meet up with him for lunch meeting. Like many entrepreneurs I work with extreme intensity, so Steve’s saying reminds me of the “power of the pause.”
Pausing throughout the day enables us to literally catch our breath, allowing both mind and body a moment to regenerate. For instance, while waiting on a conference call for the others to join, I take that 1–2 minutes to look outside at the garden, take a couple of deep breaths, or listen to the rain.
5. Curate your intellect. I’m a great believer that inspiration comes from getting out from behind your desk and exposing yourself to new ideas. I revere the arts and applaud the courage it takes to be an artist. Here’re a few favorite (easy) ways I expand my horizons.
Find new music via the Tiny Desk series.
Follow City Arts & Lectures for inspiration. I especially like the episode with ballerina Misty Copeland.
Read fiction. Recent favorites include Tommy Orange’s There There and Haruki Murakami’s Killing Commendatore.
We are sure you aren’t done. How are you going to shake things up next?
I recently read an article by Nathan Baschez on “What kind of company do you want to build? Scale, speed, or freedom: choose two.” Nathan contends that when building a company, every founder needs to prioritize two of these three objectives. As a founder, I see the wisdom in this framework and am currently prioritizing:
Freedom: In our first year, we declined an offer of funding. Instead, I opted to bootstrap the company and go straight to revenue. This flexibility means that my team and I have the option to set our own priorities, including taking an ethical approach to data privacy and working with clients that are aligned with our values.
Scale: Increasing our impact is our current focus. Last year we successfully migrated to a SaaS business model and are expanding our reach through strategic partnerships. We are now pursuing systemic change by working with multinational companies, forming alliances to reach hundreds of colleges in the HigherEd space, and exploring new verticals including building cultural alignment within first responder and faith-based communities.
Do you have a book, podcast, or talk that’s had a deep impact on your thinking? Can you share a story with us? Can you explain why it was so resonant with you?
I enjoy Guy Raz’s “How I Built This” podcast, which I find equal parts business education and inspiration. Take the episode with Payal Kadakia, founder of ClassPass. Payal relays how in the early days there was no technology behind the matching of individuals with exercise classes, instead, she made the matches manually. While it was a time-consuming task, it enabled Payal to observe customer behavior first-hand, helping her gain first-hand knowledge of what her customers wanted.
I’ve taken this lesson to heart and set aside time daily to look closely at how our AI is performing values-based matching of individuals with global giving opportunities, volunteering activities, and learning resources. While we have auto-reporting to discern patterns, my hands-on approach helps me glean insights into customer needs as we continually refine product development and marketing strategies.
Also on my list of favorites is Dolly Parton’s America series. Although I’m not a huge fan of country music, I admire Dolly Parton’s business acumen and creativity. Forever underestimated, Dolly learned early to retain the rights to her music and is now taking steps to ensure that future musicians can sample her songs through a vast database that will pay royalties to her estate after she’s gone.
I’m also inspired by Dolly’s philanthropic commitment. Not only did she donate $1M to fund COVID vaccine research, but she has a steadfast commitment to early childhood education. She founded the Imagination Library, a program that has distributed more than a million books to children from birth until they begin their first year of school.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
“For there is always light,
If only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.”
Above is an excerpt from Amanda Gorman’s poem “The Hill We Climb,” that she recited at the presidential inauguration in 2020. Amanda, the youngest inaugural poet in U.S. history, wrote the missive to convey a message of hope and unity to the country.
Her poetic words continue to inspire me and many Americans to take action and to help create the future we wish to see. Interweaving her poetry with purpose, Amanda notes that her “purpose is to help people and to shed a light on issues that have far too long been in the darkness.”
I share this motivation. I created Summery as a for-profit social impact enterprise to help individuals and organizations first define their sense of purpose and values, and second, to implement these values. For me and my team, helping others is the genesis of our work, not an accompaniment.
You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. 🙂
I founded Summery after a 2-year sabbatical where I traveled to all 7 continents and 62 countries volunteering with humanitarian organizations. Upon returning I wrote the Adventure Philanthropist book series, which highlighted not only my worldwide adventure but 30 other individuals that were leading fulfilling lives that reflected their values. I wrote the series to inspire others to find professional and personal fulfillment through social impact and philanthropic activities.
It was a grand goal, but it didn’t quite work. While readers liked my book, they let me know that my lifestyle seemed too extreme and folks couldn’t quite see how to incorporate social impact into their everyday lives.
So I was driven to create tools to help people understand and activate their personal values. I recruited an ex-Google engineer to build a prototype of our KindQ™, a behavioral science evidence-based app that provides individuals with a unique value profile based on 1 of 98,304 different combinations of kindness.
Each individual is then matched with three personalized social impact activities to easily activate their values. Each time someone completes a Kind profile, we honor it with a donation to a nonprofit organization reflecting a community’s collective values. The result for an organization or enterprise is greater personal and professional fulfillment for key stakeholders, such as employees, customers, vendors, and investors.
Our data and scientific insights create an organizational baseline that enables executives to measure behaviors and cultural transformation, creating an opportunity for true system change. This is our movement: to inspire individuals and organizations to live their values.
Beth Noymer Levine Of SmartMouth Communications On The 5 Things You Need To Be A Highly Effective Public Speaker
An Interview With Fotis Georgiadis
Keep it moving. All of it. You included. A speech or presentation is effectively a show. And let’s face it, people love to watch a show. When you think about it, though, shows are not static; they move. So, unless you are tethered to a fixed microphone at a podium, you should move — forward, toward the audience; side to side in the front of the room or on the stage; or around the room if there’s space.
At some point in our lives, many of us will have to give a talk to a large group of people. What does it take to be a highly effective public speaker? How can you improve your public speaking skills? How can you overcome a fear of speaking in public? What does it take to give a very interesting and engaging public talk? In this interview series called “5 Things You Need To Be A Highly Effective Public Speaker” we are talking to successful and effective public speakers to share insights and stories from their experience. As a part of this series, we had the pleasure of interviewing Beth Noymer Levine.
Coaching people to use their brains before their mouths is the sole focus of Beth Noymer Levine’s work at SmartMouth Communications. After more than a decade in Public Relations, Investor Relations and Corporate Communications in New York and Atlanta, Beth established SmartMouth in Salt Lake City in 2005 to offer Speaker Coaching, Presentation Skills Training, Media Readiness™ Training, and related services. Beth is the author of the award-winning book “Jock Talk: 5 Communication Principles for Leaders as Exemplified by Legends of the Sports World” (Greenleaf Book Group, 2015). She is also the creator of the mobile app, “SmartMouth Public Speaking Toolkit,” and a suite of Communication and Presentation Skills courses offered online through Udemy, OpenSesame, and GO1.com. Beth has lectured and taught at the Tuck School of Business at Dartmouth, the University of Utah, and New York University. In 2015, Beth was one of Utah Business Magazine’s “30 Women to Watch.” She has been featured in Forbes, Harvard Business Review, the BBC, The Wall Street Journal and is a regular contributor to Forbes.com.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Our readers would love to get to know you a bit better. Can you tell us the story of how you grew up?
Probably the most relevant aspect of my childhood is that I grew up with three brothers and no sisters. Two were older, one was younger. As the only girl, I learned to “take it,” so to speak, and also to “dish it out” to people who were bigger than I was. The net result was that, by the time I reached adulthood, I was not intimidated by much of anything or anyone. Over my career years, this translated into me being far less scared of an angry fist-pounding boss or client than my peers were.
Can you share a story with us about what brought you to this specific career path?
Yes, I vividly remember in the mid- to late 1980s, when I was working as a communications consultant on Wall Street, I would be tasked with preparing an investment banker and/or their corporate client for an interview with the media or a presentation to investors. I was usually a lot younger and less experienced — in business and in life — than my clients, but I was able to be insightful and helpful about how they should present their story and what their key messages were. And, to my shock, they were accepting and very appreciative. I recall making a mental note to myself at the time that this niche of preparing people to be effective speakers and presenters could be a really interesting business one day.
Can you tell us the most interesting story that happened to you since you began your career?
I have been extremely fortunate to have the privilege of working with some outstanding people and organizations. One of my favorite stories to share is from the very early days of SmartMouth Communications. I think my business was about a year old when I was alerted to an RFP for Media Training from the U.S. Ski and Snowboarding Teams. No matter what, they would be an A-List client, but I was especially excited because they were Utah-based and so was I. I responded to the RFP and made the final cut. Three firms, including mine, were invited to present to the U.S. Ski and Snowboard Teams’ executive leadership. I found out I was up against a global PR firm and a firm that had been exclusively media training high-profile professional athletes for two decades. Yikes! I knew that my competitors would have eye-popping PowerPoint presentations to share …. and then there would be me. I needed to figure out how to differentiate myself and my capabilities, even though SmartMouth was in its infancy. I decided to use my 45 minutes to deliver some of the same media training to the executive leadership team that I would to the athletes. In other words, I made it experiential and tangible for them so they would know 100% what they would be getting. By some miracle, I won the business and have worked with Olympic athletes at various points throughout the 18 years since SmartMouth was established.
Can you share a story about the funniest mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?
Oh boy, I have some whoppers! I think the funniest mistake I made in the early days of SmartMouth is something I repurposed as a word-to-the-wise piece of advice to clients after the fact. I had been invited to speak at a very large conference and was absolutely thrilled. I was prepared in every way, including my outfit. I remember that I wore a black skirt and black sleeveless turtleneck sweater under a very smart-looking self-belting light tan jacket. I was nervous, though, as it was going to be my largest and most consequential audience to date. I probably don’t need to tell those who have had this same experience, but my nerves turned to sweat, and sweat shows on light colors. Only after I was done with my presentation did I notice that my wet armpits were noticeable on my light tan jacket. So embarrassing! All I could hope was that I had not actually raised one of my arms while speaking. This little “mistake” morphed into “whatever you do, wear a dark jacket!” advice for clients who tell me they get nervous.
None of us are able to achieve success without some help along the way. Is there a particular person who you are grateful towards who helped get you to where you are? Can you share a story about that?
My Mom, for sure. I haven’t talked about this often enough, but starting SmartMouth was my re-entry strategy after a career break for motherhood. Long before it was chic, or even commonplace, my Mom went back to school for her master’s degree and then started working part time. It was the early 1970s; she had one child in college, one in high school, one in middle school and one in Kindergarten. I learned from her that my path did not necessarily need to be linear; it could be crooked, broken, or of my own design. She taught me, by example, that life unfolds in chapters, and we get to be the author of our own chapters and choose what’s best for us at any given point. In fact, I think what’s being referred to as “the great resignation” right now is just that — people choosing what’s best for them during an unprecedented time.
You have been blessed with great success in a career path that can be challenging and intimidating. Do you have any words of advice for others who may want to embark on this career path, but seem daunted by the prospect of failure?
Failure doesn’t label a person, it labels an event or project or initiative. You can have (multiple!) failures and still be a success. In fact, you should have some failures. Failure is like rain; it happens when we prefer sunny days, but it comes with the benefit of watering our trees and flowers. Just like you shouldn’t be daunted by rain, you shouldn’t be daunted by failure. It happens when you’re aiming for success, but you learn from it, you become smarter, and then you’re better prepared for success going forward.
What drives you to get up everyday and give your talks? What is the main empowering message that you aim to share with the world?
Communication is the currency of success! That is SmartMouth Communications’ motto. I know I can help change the trajectory of a person’s or an organization’s effectiveness or reputation with a few simple tips on how they present themselves and how they communicate in general. TMI, or too much information, is universal buzzkill for so many reasons. People know this and yet they still typically deliver too much information. My mission, if I had just one, would be to help more people understand why and how to prioritize and package their heaps of information.
You have such impressive work. What are some of the most interesting or exciting projects you are working on now? Where do you see yourself heading from here?
One really exciting thing on the horizon is something that’s new for me. While I have been a member of the International Association of Business Communicators (IABC) for many years, it was somewhat loosely and also off and on. During the pandemic, I had the time and capacity to get more involved. Now, two years later, I am honored to be the incoming Chair for IABC’s World Conference in 2023, to be held next June in Toronto. Bringing people from every continent together, all of whom share an interest and a career in various aspects of communications, is a huge undertaking and very exciting. My goal for next year’s World Conference will be to deliver an amazing experience and also tremendous value in the learning, professional development and the relationship-building.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
“You don’t know what you don’t know.” Such wise words! So true about life, as well as about people and general knowledge. I try to remind myself often that I don’t know what I don’t know. It keeps my humility intact, it keeps my mind open to the viewpoints and knowledge of others, and it keeps me open to learning new things. I always say that I learn more from my clients than they learn from me, and that’s true. Not only do I learn about their businesses or professions, but I learn about people and their challenges and successes. I learn what makes them tick, and, most valuable of all, I often devise public speaking hacks that will work for them or I am privy to the ones they’ve devised for themselves … all of which are “homegrown” and inform my practice as a coach/trainer.
Ok, thank you for all that. Here is the main question of our interview. What are your “5 Things You Need To Be A Highly Effective Public Speaker?” Please share a story or example for each.
Assume nothing. Don’t assume your audience will pay attention 100% of the time when you’re speaking. Don’t assume they’ll be able to follow or understand what you’re talking about. Don’t assume they care. Your job is to make them care, help them follow along, and to grab and hold their attention. All of which starts with them — and not with you and your subject matter expertise. You live in your material, but your audience is likely to be hearing it for the very first time. In other words, what’s commonplace to you may be brand new for your audience. I often pull out a toothbrush when I’m working with a client. They look at me quizzically, as in “why on earth did you bring a toothbrush?” Then I ask for a robust explanation of what a toothbrush is, and why and how we use it. Clients answer, but haltingly because they have to give it some thought. Even though it seems like the most mundane, self-explanatory thing in the world, you can’t assume that everyone knows what a toothbrush is … or what you’re talking about.
Audiences need handholding. They need you to guide them. Audiences won’t work hard to figure out what you’re trying to tell them or what you’re asking of them. Being in the audience, being a listener, is a passive role; the speaker has the active role. So, in your opening, when you’ve got their attention, tell them what your goal is for them (something you’ll want them to think, know, do or feel by the end of your talk). They need that for context and tracking. Similarly, your audience needs to know when you’re done with one point and moving on to the next, or when you’re digressing to tell a story and when the story is done. Guide them, bring them along. I have a client who recently gave a talk that was succinct, clear and easy to follow. But even with that, I insisted that he enumerate his points so the audience would be crystal clear on where he was at each step of the way. I took it a step further and asked him to gesture by raising his thumb, then forefinger, then middle finger for points 1, 2 and 3.
A presentation is not a master class. You can make your point without your audience fully understanding your subject matter in the same way that you do. TMI (too much information) is a killer, it floods your audiences’ brains. Similarly, you should be careful to leave out jargon and acronyms, which are “exclusive” language. Rather than be impressed by your use of technical terms, your audience will just check out. I recently worked with a client company whose top leaders explained their jargon by using even more jargon, presuming everyone knew what they meant. I had to call a timeout and ask them to break it down into the most accessible explanation possible. A lot of speakers are driven to be thorough and comprehensive in explaining their content to their audiences — almost as if they want their audiences to have PhD-level understanding of the topic. For most presentations, though, speakers can simplify both the language and the amount of information, and their audiences will have an easier time following along and getting the point.
Get naked. Be real and be open. If you haven’t noticed, being vulnerable is a thing these days. It’s held in respect and esteem, and so people share the most deeply personal things about themselves on social media, even on LinkedIn. Nevertheless, it can be hard to convince some speakers, especially in leadership roles, to open up and share things that are personal, deeply or not, when they address either internal or external audiences. Yet it’s a good thing, it always draws in the audience and gives them a new point of view, usually very favorable, on the speaker. It’s humanizing. Recently, I had an interesting experience with a CEO client. We were about to rehearse a speech he needed to deliver, it was in an easy to follow bullet-pointed format in front of him, and yet he spoke so haltingly and went off on tangents while rehearsing that I couldn’t figure out what he was doing or why. As I carefully offered my observations, he revealed that he had struggled with Dyslexia his whole life and that, while he wanted to have the bullet points in front of him, he also couldn’t sort through them fast enough for a smooth delivery and also didn’t want his audience to think he was fumbling because he was unprepared. The resolution? He decided to open his talk by telling the audience about his Dyslexia as part of his declaration to them that he cares deeply about his topic, is very prepared, but that if it doesn’t sound like it, there’s a reason. It was quite moving, and he was applauded for his openness. I applauded him as well.
Keep it moving. All of it. You included. A speech or presentation is effectively a show. And let’s face it, people love to watch a show. When you think about it, though, shows are not static; they move. So, unless you are tethered to a fixed microphone at a podium, you should move — forward, toward the audience; side to side in the front of the room or on the stage; or around the room if there’s space. Not distractingly fast, but methodically and slowly. And you should gesture, you should animate your words with physical, almost theatrical, actions (think: Charades!). I had a tech client a few years back who I was coaching prior to a big keynote address; the kind where there were going to be more than a thousand people in the room and he was going to be projected onto two giant screens. He had an amazing family story, which included his parents emigrating from Taiwan to the United States. To give you an example of what I mean by “animating,” I encouraged him to turn on his heels and move from one side of the stage to the other when he said, “and my parents moved from Taiwan to the United States” so there would be more of a show, and so the show would match the content.
As you know, many people are terrified of speaking in public. Can you give some of your advice about how to overcome this fear?
Absolutely! First, it’s important to acknowledge that nervousness is just your body’s adrenaline getting you geared up for something important. Even if you were a frequent public speaker, you would get a little bit nervous every time. The important thing to remember is that the first two minutes — or 120 seconds — are when this is the worst. After that, your nerves begin to settle down and you hit your stride. This calls for you to not only know your opening but to choreograph it so that you create a pause in which you can take a sincere inhale and exhale.
You are a person of huge influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be?
There are so many important issues facing people right now — human rights, food insecurity, affordable housing, gun safety, access to healthcare, you name it. Having listed all of those, however, I think the movement I would inspire would be environmental. Climate change is affecting literally everyone, worldwide. My movement probably would be focused on making sure there is clean, renewable, safe sources of energy everywhere in the world. Not only would that bring a lot of good to a lot of people, but it would also help stop the erosion of our air quality, water supplies, forests and other habitats, all of which humans and various other species need.
Is there a person in the world whom you would love to have lunch with, and why? Maybe we can tag them and see what happens!
There are lots of people I’d love to have lunch with, but not all of them would open up and go deep with me. I would want to go deep. I don’t know if he’d be up for it, but I would love to have lunch with LeBron James. I’m a huge fan, and I’m in awe of how he has built his life, his brand, and how he maintains his focus and intensity on the court. He’s still a phenom to me, even at age 37.
Are you on social media? How can our readers follow you online?
Build genuine relationships with your people who are remote, so that when you do deliver feedback, it’s done in a way that can be received and your team can trust that it’s coming from a good place, where you have their best interest in mind. Oftentimes, when I see leaders struggling with giving feedback, it’s because that element isn’t there.
As a part of our series about “How To Give Honest Feedback without Being Hurtful”, I had the pleasure of interviewing Darrin Murriner.
Darrin Murriner is Cofounder and CEO of Cloverleaf.me. Prior to founding Cloverleaf he managed large and complex teams at companies such as Arthur Andersen, Fifth Third Bank and Munich Re. He is the author of Corporate Bravery, a book focused on helping leaders build a culture free of fear.
Thank you so much for joining us! Our readers would love to “get to know you” a bit better. Can you tell us a bit about your ‘backstory’ and how you got started?
I’ve always been an entrepreneur. I remember my dad selling specialty advertising when I was in the fifth grade, and I would take all his extra samples to school to sell for money. I made enough to buy the original Nintendo Entertainment System, which was a big deal! I kept this up through similar side hustles throughout my time in high school, but when I went to college I got stuck on a corporate track. I think for a lot of kids coming out of college nowadays, entrepreneurship is the preferred path, but in the late 1990s and early 2000s — and for decades prior — people were focused on paving the way to jobs at places like Goldman Sachs or General Electric. For a while, I fell into that groove, and I spent the first 15 years of my career not being fully true to myself.
Meanwhile, I was still doing all these entrepreneurial things on the side, and I didn’t understand that maybe it meant I should have been an entrepreneur full-time. Over time and through a lot of self-awareness work, it dawned on me that I’m meant to be building things. I wrote a book called Corporate Bravery, which really marked my transition out of the corporate environment into entrepreneurship. The focus of the book was on how to change corporate cultures to be less fear-based in their decision making, promoting a more aggressive stance that found motivation in opportunity rather than being influenced by what could go wrong. Throughout that experience, I began harboring some thoughts and ideas about a tech platform that could help people engage more effectively with each other in the workplace, and thus, Cloverleaf was born.
What do you think makes your company stand out? Can you share a story?
My cofounder, Kirsten Moorefield, and I were focused on bringing transparency to how people work together, examining the behavioral layer of how work gets done and addressing questions like, ‘Why did I work well with that person, but didn’t work well with this other person?’ and ‘Why was that team able to accomplish such amazing things, but other teams weren’t?’ It feels like it’s this ambiguous, mysterious thing, but there’s data and science that can be leveraged to build an experience out of these questions. We decided to build a tech platform that could do just that.
Like any new burgeoning area of technology, you must find ways to connect innovation to existing markets and the way people think about solutions to their problems. Over time, we’ve evolved into the coaching space, because coaching is the way many people solve interpersonal challenges in the workplace today. The problem with coaching is that oftentimes, it’s only accessible to the top five- or ten-percent of leaders in an organization. That’s pretty exclusive. At Cloverleaf, we believe everyone should have the ability to learn about themselves and about how to work effectively with each other using a technology solution could really facilitate that.
Can you share the most interesting story that happened to you since you started your career?
My first job out of college was with Arthur Andersen — what was, at the time, the most well-respected accounting firm in the world. They happened to have a client in Houston, Texas by the name of Enron, which imploded very spectacularly as a company highflyer in a burgeoning field of energy trading. Because Arthur Andersen was the accounting firm for this company, their reputation took a major hit, too. It was like the company disappeared overnight, going from having 85,000 global employees to being practically non-existent.
What a weird way to start your career, right? There was a lot of fear and trepidation, and plenty of that factored into writing Corporate Bravery. On the other hand, I got a lot of valuable leadership lessons in that short period of time. I had a chance to learn what to do well and what not to do.
My direct manager at the time was very transparent; he built a lot of trust through really focusing on our team dynamic, and even passed on opportunities that didn’t allow him to bring his team along with him. It was a selfless demonstration that established a high level of trust and camaraderie. That period was a really formative for me — both for the positive and negative lessons learned.
Can you share a story about the funniest mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?
The mistakes I’ve made in my career are almost all related to entrepreneurship, either failed projects that never really got off the ground, or even some day-to-day mistakes we made while building Cloverleaf. Oftentimes, most of those mistakes revolve around trying to do too much and not being focused enough. I would say most of the incidents I can recall probably took place sometime throughout the last four or five years and revolve around not being ruthless enough about the focus on my personal attention or the attention of the company.
What advice would you give to other CEOs and business leaders to help their employees to thrive and avoid burnout?
The biggest thing is to set aside time. For instance, I recently began blocking off an hour at lunchtime, because I was finding myself getting increasingly crunched for time around that part of my day. I would end up grabbing some sort of fast food that wasn’t good for my body, which I’d then scarf down very unceremoniously ahead of my next call. I realized that having a break midday is a really good thing, not just for my personal health, but also to reflect and even follow up on the latest developments from that morning.
I also block off two Fridays a month on my calendar. This is time I devote to tackling longer work, where I can clear my plate and spend more than just a 30- or 60-minute stretch of time thinking strategically about some of the more advanced challenges facing our business. It might not always get adhered to — if I’ve got a critical client meeting that must happen during time I’d blocked off, I can reckon with altering my lunch plans. If you can hold that time block 80-percent of the time, though, it gives you the necessary space to reflect and avoid burnout.
How do you define “Leadership”? Can you explain what you mean or give an example?
There’s no perfect formula to leadership. Every situation calls for a different style. Being a company that uses behavioral assessments like DISC or the Enneagram, we often notice the culture associating leadership with behaviors common to those with DISC type D for Dominance or those who are an eight on the Enneagram — the decisive, high-energy types. Our team works hard to make sure that we’re not only appointing leaders who exhibit those qualities, but are rounding out our leadership team by promoting those who bring differing strengths to the table.
In reality, I’ve seen so many people who either don’t have the positional authority or don’t exhibit those stereotypically dominant characteristics who regularly demonstrate good leadership through speaking up in important moments with critical information or alternative perspectives. In those moments, leadership to me is as simple as standing up and lending your voice, plus following that up by creating space for others to be heard as well.
In my work, I often talk about how to release and relieve stress. As a busy leader, what do you do to prepare your mind and body before a stressful or high stakes meeting, talk, or decision? Can you share a story or some examples?
I have a pretty strong faith component in my life, and for me, tapping into that is an essential component of relieving stress. I think creating space for whatever spiritual connection someone might want to express is important in relieving stress as a leader. Personally, I tend to dedicate time to my faith in the morning, so that I’m starting my day with the right frame of mind and can better process my stress-induced emotions as the day goes on.
I’ve also been working on establishing some habits geared at the physical release of stress. I’m constantly trying to figure out where I can fit exercise into my regular routine. Sometimes it’s in the morning, sometimes it’s after work, and oftentimes it’s bringing up the rear of particularly long, busy weeks.
Ok, let’s jump to the core of our interview. Can you briefly tell our readers about your experience with managing a team and giving feedback?
I’ve been a manager for two decades in various contexts, from classic corporate environments to startup spaces, like the one at Cloverleaf. In my time as a manager, I’ve worked with many people, with different personalities, communication preferences, and work styles. What I’ve learned is that building strong relationships is the key component to giving good feedback. In those situations where feedback doesn’t get delivered in an effective way, it’s because there’s not a strong relationship and personal connection between folks, and the person giving feedback doesn’t know how to adjust feedback for an individual.
For example, at Cloverleaf, we’re mostly what we call support-motivated team members, which means, if I walk up and ask someone, “How’s that particular task going?” it doesn’t feel like micromanagement to most people, because they’re the type of team members who want to know that their manager is engaged and asking questions and looking for opportunities to help and break down barriers.
But I have one team member in sales who doesn’t prefer the support-motivated approach. He’s a very goal-oriented person. He wants to know the number he needs to achieve in a certain day, week, or month, and then talk to me at the end of the month to let me know where he stands with that number. If I ask him every day how his work is going, it’s going to feel micromanagement to him. That’s not the kind of feedback or engagement he’s looking for from his manager. I’ve learned that it’s important to get to know people on a personal level and ask them what style of feedback they prefer, and set that expectation upfront. I want to make sure that we can have conversations that feel productive for everyone involved.
This might seem intuitive but it will be constructive to spell it out. Can you share with us a few reasons why giving honest and direct feedback is essential to being an effective leader?
A 2015 Gallup study shared that “today’s employees want a manager who is invested in their personal and professional development. They want frequent feedback — and opportunities to do more of what they do best.” Giving continuous, real-time feedback — that is also, as you mention, honest and direct, but I’d also like to add, humble — really helps empower and motivate team members to do their best work. It’s an incredibly important skill for a leader toward building trust in the workplace, increasing engagement of the team, and helping grow each person’s strengths.
One of the trickiest parts of managing a team is giving honest feedback, in a way that doesn’t come across as too harsh. Can you please share with us five suggestions about how to best give constructive criticism to a remote employee? Kindly share a story or example for each.
As I mentioned, building relationships is critical in giving feedback. At Cloverleaf, we talk about our core values, and one of those is “be a genuine teammate.” This involves two qualities: candor and authenticity. If you’re going to be candid, that is going to lead to better, more effective performance. There must be an authentic relationship that exists behind that. That’s very hard to do in a fully remote or virtual world. What we know about how people engage and interact with each other in digital or virtual spaces is that interactions tend to become very transactional. It’s focused on: “Did you get this thing done?” “Where are we at with that deliverable?” “Hey, how do I access this document?” It’s very much about the productivity and that doesn’t create a fertile ground for performance feedback to be well received, because there’s not a real authentic relationship there.
Build genuine relationships with your people who are remote, so that when you do deliver feedback, it’s done in a way that can be received and your team can trust that it’s coming from a good place, where you have their best interest in mind. Oftentimes, when I see leaders struggling with giving feedback, it’s because that element isn’t there.
Practically, you can do this through weekly one-on-one meetings, where you’re getting to know each other and building that trust. But it’s also important to create separate conversations that are focused on employee growth and personal development. Once there’s trust, there’s also a desire for feedback. For example, the other day, I met with a team member who initiated the conversation for feedback. She came into our one-on-one by asking, “What can I be doing better?” Ultimately, we want to hire people who come with that kind of growth mindset, who are actively seeking that out, but we know that not everyone is in that place, so again, the key element is to intentionally work toward building authentic relationships with those remote employees.
Can you address how to give constructive feedback over email? If someone is in front of you much of the nuance can be picked up in facial expressions and body language. But not when someone is remote.
How do you prevent the email from sounding too critical or harsh?
The same goes for email. If you have a genuine relationship with the person you’re giving feedback to over email, then there is a strong foundation of understanding built in. I would, however, avoid giving feedback over email if that relationship hasn’t been established. Focus on building that relationship first, since there is a lack of nuance, and therefore opportunity for miscommunication in tone over email, especially with constructive feedback.
In your experience, is there a best time to give feedback or critique? Should it be immediately after an incident? Should it be at a different time? Should it be at set intervals? Can you explain what you mean?
Absolutely. One of the most critical factors in giving feedback is when you give it (whether it’s constructive or positive feedback). It’s important that feedback is as close to the relevant circumstances as possible. Holding onto feedback is a disservice to everyone involved. If the timing doesn’t allow for feedback in the moment, try to give feedback within one week or less, instead of waiting for the next performance review. Giving feedback as close to the event has a direct impact on someone’s understanding of how they’ve performed — and these more consistent feedback nudges have been shown to lead to higher engagement and behavioral changes than piling everything on in an intervention- or performance review-style feedback session.
Some other things I consider beyond timing is making sure that the feedback I give has the intention to contribute. Criticism, for example, is not feedback. Constructive feedback with alternative approaches and solutions is helpful. As for positive feedback, don’t stop at “great job!” Go beyond that and express the impact that a job well done has had on the team, organization, and specific individuals as well. The key thing to remember is building trust is hard work and takes time.
How would you define what it is to “be a great boss”? Can you share a story?
A great boss has a healthy amount of humility and empathy. A recent study from the University of South Australia Centre for Workplace Excellence spent time with nearly 500 team members spanning 120 different workplace teams. The research uncovered that “leaders who demonstrate humility through self-awareness, praising others’ strengths and contributions, and being open to feedback” are creating more positive workplaces and curbing negative influences.
What’s great is that both humility and empathy are skills you can learn and practice as a boss. The basics are essentially:
Humble leaders have a self-awareness that acknowledges they don’t have all the answers.
Humble leaders include their teams in problem-solving and decision-making and are dependent on others each step of the way.
Humble leaders ask questions with sincerity and curiosity.
You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. 🙂
Something I’ve been feeling increasingly passionate about is the current American political structure. My interest isn’t rooted in specific issues as much as in ensuring our political system works as a democracy, guaranteeing every voice can be heard through access to voting. I’ve been looking into nonpartisan organizations that I can get involved with or throw my support behind — either financially or with my own time — who are making great strides in bringing free and fair access to secure electoral processes.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
In his book Humble Inquiry, former MIT professor Edgar Schein makes this statement about humility: “Humility is not a required major personality trait of good inquirers. But even the most confident or arrogant among us will find ourselves humbled by the reality of being dependent on others.”
This quote resonates with me as a cofounder, manager, and coach to my team. We will all be humbled by depending on others in life. Effective leaders depend on their team members to do much more than complete a list of tasks. I depend on my team’s opinions, insights, and feedback for the good of the team. This not only provides our company with a more diverse set of opinions but also helps individual team members feel more valued.
How can our readers further follow your work online?
Meet The Disruptors: Roderick de Rode Of Spinn On The Five Things You Need To Shake Up Your Industry
An Interview With Fotis Georgiadis
‘Recruitment is everything’ is definitely one of the most important drivers for success, you need a skilled and high-performing team that understands the mission and are equally convinced to get things done. Diversity, especially, and hiring a mix of characters turned out to work in our case.
As a part of our series about business leaders who are shaking things up in their industry, I had the pleasure of interviewing Roderick de Rode.
Roderick de Rode founded Spinn in 2015 out of his passion for excellent coffee and a disdain for the wasteful, expensive, and mediocre coffee that was produced by popular POD systems on the market. Spinn is on a mission to reimagine coffee for the connected age and the discerning coffee lover. Prior to Spinn, Roderick got his start in tech, working at Dell, Microsoft, and other startups.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we dig in, our readers would like to get to know you a bit more. Can you tell us a bit about your “backstory”? What led you to this particular career path?
I have a background working in the technology industry, and am very passionate about sustainability and, of course, coffee. Knowing that coffee is one of the most widely-consumed beverages in the world and that consumers crave convenience and quality in their daily lives, I watched as an era of fast-brewed, yet culturally and environmentally destructive coffee, such as K-Cups, rose to the top.
My disdain for wasteful, expensive, and mediocre-tasting coffee from POD systems pushed me to create Spinn in 2015. Using its multi-patented centrifugal brewing technology, Spinn invented a new and exciting way to homebrew, which allowed the coffee to taste better, all while avoiding the use of wasteful filters and pods. We use technology to empower consumers to make a better cup of coffee in a very easy way and supported by a network of 500+ artisan coffee roasters in the USA.
Can you tell our readers what it is about the work you’re doing that’s disruptive?
Spinn is a hardware-enabled coffee marketplace redefining the home coffee experience through extraordinary craft, wireless convenience, and zero waste. Spinn is disrupting not only the at-home coffee experience but also tapping into technology to create a pod-free and first-of-its-kind digital coffee marketplace. Unlike other products on the market, the revolutionary, brilliantly connected Spinn Coffee Maker effortlessly crafts the perfect coffee, espresso, cold brew, and more all from the touch of an app.
Additionally, our brand defines a new and unique better-for-the-planet coffee maker category using whole coffee beans instead of disposable filters or pods, all while offering this unrivaled convenience. Spinn embodies the values that drove the spread of coffee from the 11th century to today, and has connected a global network of coffee roasters, tasters, makers, and consumers. By creating a platform that links growing to roasting and brewing to tasting, we are able to deliver on the promise of the highest quality coffee, every time.
Can you share a story about the funniest mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?
Misjudging the time and effort it takes to engineer and develop great products and services.
Not hindered by any knowledge of coffee or hardware manufacturing, we started with a ten-slide pitch deck. After receiving a great first response to the idea, it turned out to be much harder to get the product to market with the big amount of pre-orders that we sold. You see similar patterns with Tesla model 3 and Cybertruck, products that take very long to actually deliver after the first hype of the announcement and pre-ordering process. In the end, it’s live and learn.
We all need a little help along the journey. Who have been some of your mentors? Can you share a story about how they made an impact?
The biggest inspiration really was the very first pre-order customers and investors that were interested in the product and proposition. When we got invited to an accelerator program in Silicon Valley, the biggest question from investors was ‘show product market fit’ — is the product this something that people actually want to buy and use? With that feedback in mind, we launched an early-stage website, explaining what the idea was and a video that showed what we had in mind. The response was overwhelmingly positive, with tens of thousands of people signing up for the product. This was the biggest driver and inspiration to continue the journey, seeing that we were not alone in our frustration with POD systems that produce mediocre coffee. Advisors come and go and they all make a smaller or bigger impact.
In today’s parlance, being disruptive is usually a positive adjective. But is disrupting always good? When do we say the converse, that a system or structure has ‘withstood the test of time’? Can you articulate to our readers when disrupting an industry is positive, and when disrupting an industry is ‘not so positive’? Can you share some examples of what you mean?
The idea of disruption excites some people and terrifies others. In my opinion, disruption is always good because it creates a shift in mental models. How do we think about our existing reality and what should come next? In the end that’s where progress, innovation and evolution lives. It’s human nature to grow, evolve and improve the way we do things. POD coffee systems were revolutionary 35 years ago because they solved a convenience problem. However, our new beliefs and realities allow for newer, more modern solutions that fit the current day and age. We cannot justify polluting the world with unsustainable practices. We believe Spinn makes better coffee. Not only better tasting, but also better for the environment. Therefore, we have to disrupt the current thinking about portioned coffee and wasteful plastics for every cup of coffee made with a capsule system.
Can you share five of the best words of advice you’ve gotten along your journey? Please give a story or example for each.
Well number one is ‘don’t give up’. A cliche, but tenacity, drive and determination are important factors when you’re building something new on the unbeaten path with lots of competition. At times you might feel like Don Quixote holding on to faith, but faith combined with passion has created amazing things (also many terrible things, by the way).
‘Recruitment is everything’ is definitely one of the most important drivers for success, you need a skilled and high-performing team that understands the mission and are equally convinced to get things done. Diversity, especially, and hiring a mix of characters turned out to work in our case.
‘There is no rule book’ turned out to be true. You can read so much about all other founder stories and how companies were built and the do’s and don’ts, but every story is unique. Much like the people building these companies.
Philosopher Seneca once said ‘Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity’. We’ve been called lucky many times, but when we analyzed why certain favorable things happened it did come down to accumulations of circumstances that triggered a magical outcome.
I enjoy listening to music and it gives me a lot of inspiration. So the fifth best word of advice is found in the song ‘That’s life’ by the great Frank Sinatra. It helps when you’re down and out and need a push to get back in the saddle.
We are sure you aren’t done. How are you going to shake things up next?
At its core, Spinn is always growing, aiming to revolutionize the industry as a whole and reimagine coffee for the connected age. In fact, Spinn’s hardware-enabled, app-connected coffee system recently launched a first-of-its-kind cold brew feature, which enables coffee lovers to create cold brew in under 60 seconds. People love it. Spinn’s app and coffee marketplace will continue to grow, remove complications, and craft the perfect cup of coffee. Next steps will involve making things faster, better, and cheaper. We have ideas for smaller machines, commercial applications, alternative beverages, and expanding into international markets.
Do you have a book, podcast, or talk that’s had a deep impact on your thinking? Can you share a story with us? Can you explain why it was so resonant with you?
I would say the school of life has had a deep impact on my thinking. I believe in a decentralized way of learning and a multitude of experiences and input that shape one’s beliefs and behavior. There are so many sources of knowledge, wisdom, and learning that it’s hard to pinpoint the most important ones. From Spinoza and Socrates to Mike Tyson, Van Gogh to Bill Gates and Chuck D, they’ve all had an impact on my mental construct. I listen to the ‘standard’ Podcasts like Guy Raz ‘How I Built This’; Reid Hoffmans ‘Masters of Scale’; A16Z podcast and Lex Fridman, and try to cherry-pick from the enormous amount of information coming our way.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
Fear is a bad advisor. We have taken a lot of risks that led to good outcomes. Face your fears and live your dreams is what they say. I encourage anyone to drive for progress over perfection, and start doing. The fear of imperfection can have a massive impact on progress, slowing things down.
You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger.
It’s unfortunate to see the suffering, hate, and division in the world that is often driven by misunderstanding and fear. Not to sound like a hippie, but I think it’s time for more love, understanding, care, and kindness in the world. Life is just too short.
This was very inspiring. Thank you so much for joining us!
“Surround yourself with supporters and people that get it. Remove toxic people from your life.” Building something, like a business, takes everything you’ve got. Distractions and energy drains will kill opportunities for success.
As a part of our series about business leaders who are shaking things up in their industry, I had the pleasure of interviewing Jason Wilbur.
Jason Wilbur is an award-winning designer with decades of creative and technical experience in a broad range of product categories, including timepieces. Along with his leadership in pioneering new realms in the world of design, he is the founder of the eponymous WILBUR brand. From the rarified world of automotive R&D to advanced car design and experimental timepieces, Jason Wilbur is hell-bent on Designing the Future. By any means necessary.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we dig in, our readers would like to get to know you a bit more. Can you tell us a bit about your “backstory”? What led you to this particular career path?
At a very young age I became intrigued by everything mechanical, especially things with gears. I grew up in New York but spent a lot of time at my family’s farm in Vermont learning how to fix and figure things out on my own. I would assemble my own tools, build my own machines, and draw architectural plans for the treehouses I would construct; my brain was just wired differently.
In high school, my focus shifted towards art. I knew the artists were the ones who lived in a state of revolution, rather than a state of evolution, and I always knew those were the roots I was born from. Stemming from a family of musicians, artists, and scientists, creativity and unique ideas were never devoid in my household. Moreover, living in New York City allowed for me to immerse myself into things that inspired me, like contemporary art that challenged convention, unique architecture, street art, and culture.
In college, my interests were physics, engineering, and entrepreneurship however, I knew that design/art would allow for a path with more creative freedom. I didn’t have a specific plan; I just knew I wanted to create exciting and challenging things. I majored in Fine Art and Graphic Design from the Rochester Institute of Technology, where amongst many fields of study, they have a well-respected art and engineering school.
After a few years of working in the design industry, my love for cars and machines drove me back to school. I attended Art Center College of Design, in Pasadena — an institution known as the best school for car design in the world. Through my work with ACCD I received an internship at Porsche, designing everything from cars to watches to powerboats. After that, I accepted a car design job with Honda R&D working on both production and concept cars. I was the lead designer on several key Honda cars, including the Honda FC Sport, The Honda Sport concept, the NueV (electric urban vehicle), and created over a dozen internal future vehicle concepts.
My expertise in design and advanced car development inspired me to create WILBUR, but I learned more about watch design from breaking the rules than following them. My approach quickly moved further from the traditional “ways to design a watch” and more toward my experience with advanced vehicle design methods to inform my watch designs.
Can you tell our readers what it is about the work you’re doing that’s disruptive?
The luxury watch industry itself is a conservative industry. Luxury watch brands out of Europe often play it safe by designing watches or creating new collections that tend to look like one another. And, that’s okay — there’s a huge market for it and I love to see those brands be successful! But following someone else’s lead is just not my style.
Throughout the course of my career, I’ve come to learn that people, brands, companies aren’t willing to take risks, or are even intimidated by creative concepts and outlandish designs because they know that after some time, it’s going to garner traction and they will have to play catch up sooner or later. With WILBUR, I am intentionally being disruptive and willing to risk it all — ultimately, I am working to redefine what luxury means.
The word luxury, in and of itself, has lost its sparkle. It’s such a commonly used term that someone can slap a good looking logo on a fine piece of product or material and as soon as the next celebrity wears it, it’s automatically considered luxurious.
WILBUR is being disruptive by creating its own standard of what luxury is. We are going against the grain of what traditional luxury standards have been pushing for so long. We are working to create the next American luxury empire, without the uppity attitude it tends to carry. We’re a luxury brand made for outlaws, rulebreakers and rebels. We’re certainly not for the faint of the wrist.
American design has not been respected for a long time and I am working to change that perspective with every WILBUR watch created. WILBUR timepieces are high concept sculptures that happen to tell time. We follow no industry formula for what we create. Our products are not for everyone; we create only for the limitless few, not the masses. We design and make ultra rare high-concept pieces like the LEO with in-house designed movements and complex execution as well as “Daily Drivers” like the Launch Edition meant to merge high-concept design sensibilities with the simplicity (and audacity) of a simple Japanese movement. In addition, our Speed Shop versions offer opportunities for experimentation with futuristic R&D techniques or ultra-limited editions to mix things up.
Can you share a story about the funniest mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?
Well I’m not sure if it’s the “funniest” but, I know my wife and I both share a chuckle looking back at some of the positions we were in while trying to bring WILBUR to life. For example, I remember when the LEO, a new watch design I am launching this winter, was just a thought nearly eight years ago. I had an investor interested in this specific design who assured me that if I could make the LEO a reality, he would invest. I was excited and willing to spend my last penny to bring WILBUR to fruition; I literally started selling things out of my own house and even my motorcycle. We really needed the money, we were doing desperate things like counting coins out of our couch and dipping into our 401K’s. I even flew to Switzerland to find suppliers in person to help make a tangible model to showcase. When I reconnected with the investor to show him the first ever WILBUR watch, he shared that he had moved onto a different focus and was no longer interested. My heart sank to my stomach, I didn’t know what I was going to tell my wife. But one “no” wasn’t going to stop me — I have that “Everest Syndrome,” where I just keep going and going until I reach my end goal regardless of the obvious dangers. I also know what I bring to the table and I know WILBUR is going against the grain and redefining watch standards. I knew that I designed this watch to represent WILBUR and this is basically how the LEO came about. It has been a crazy journey, to say the least and it certainly holds a special place in my heart.
We all need a little help along the journey. Who have been some of your mentors? Can you share a story about how they made an impact?
Throughout my journey, I have had so many mentors but the most powerful have been my teachers and professors. Growing up, I almost always had trouble in school — I couldn’t sit still, my mind and body were just wired that way. It’s like I needed to be doing something, or building something versus reading out of a book or following a lecture. Some teachers often reported, “Jason is disruptive in class.” However, the ones who understood that I was on a mission to do something different showed me the power of support and guidance and pushed me to break the rules to find my calling. It’s truly rare to find people willing to take a personal risk for your benefit. I am lucky to have found this honorable trait in many of my teachers along the way.
In today’s parlance, being disruptive is usually a positive adjective. But is disrupting always good? When do we say the converse, that a system or structure has ‘withstood the test of time’? Can you articulate to our readers when disrupting an industry is positive, and when disrupting an industry is ‘not so positive’? Can you share some examples of what you mean?
Creatively speaking; if you set out to be disruptive, you will be destructive. If you set out to create something new based on your own rules, your success — if it comes, will be called disruptive. From a business standpoint, a whole industry rarely benefits from a good disruption; it’s usually a new company that refuses to follow old and outdated industry rules and truly focuses its efforts on customer values. Real value comes when the disruption benefits a group of customers that have been offered a modern and relevant value from an otherwise antiquated industry. Online video streaming disrupted the video rental market for example.
Can you share five of the best words of advice you’ve gotten along your journey? Please give a story or example for each.
“Surround yourself with supporters and people that get it. Remove toxic people from your life.” Building something, like a business, takes everything you’ve got. Distractions and energy drains will kill opportunities for success.
“If it’s not a bit difficult, it’s probably not worth it.” Real things take effort, if something is too easy, there’s a sign you are missing something.
“Exploration, not imitation, is the key to innovation.” Risk taking creates exciting journeys and unique outcomes. Not all efforts end the way they are planned but if the journey allows you to grow and learn along the way, you can’t lose.
“Ignore the noise.” There are always going to be haters when you follow your dreams. You need to learn to take relevant feedback yet, filter out the toxic and unhelpful clutter.
“One step at a time.” Building a business or launching a new endeavor can be scary if you try to digest the scale all at once. Just start — then you can finish.
We are sure you aren’t done. How are you going to shake things up next?
Apart from other things I have in the works, WILBUR is launching two new watches this year.
First, the EXP (Experimental) which is designed and built in the USA with a Swiss-made movement. Every single aspect of the dimensions for this watch are smaller, not shrunken, just smaller — making it a more wearable timepiece. I designed the EXP with super 3-dimensional sculpture that can be appreciated from all angles — I learned this from my car design background, it has to look good from top, side, back, etc. One of the first things I do is take the watch off and show people how it looks architecturally. I take it off my wrist because the wrist is just a place to store the watch, it has to be appreciated off the wrist. The main design concept was to create chassis-like architectural structures that make up the watch case, making for an extremely technical feel. This limited-edition watch has a 9-part modular Exo-Chassis Case (most watches have 2–3 max), sapphire crystals with anti-reflective coating, 3-D hand finished details with a transparent glass dial base, and a “suspended” dial with movement structure. Limited to only 100 pieces, the EXP will be available this Fall.
Second, the LEO (Low Earth Orbit), created to serve as the pinnacle for what the WILBUR brand represents. Born from “Dreams of Machines” the LEO’s American mechanical sculpture holds nothing back and challenges the convention of traditional luxury watch designs. The LEO offers a concept of cryptic symbols or puzzle pieces, that on their own are unrecognizable, but when the pieces come together, they create a familiar hour numeral under a space frame-like structure that resembles a machine destined to orbit. Designed in-house and made in Switzerland, the LEO is hand finished and made up of an 8-part modular design, sapphire crystals with anti-reflective coating, titanium, WILBUR Engine One Automatic Jump-Hour Movement, separate discs for minutes/hours, JW1 movement chassis, and a JW1 Rotor. This small-batched limited-edition watch will be available for purchase in the winter exclusively through invite-only.
Do you have a book, podcast, or talk that’s had a deep impact on your thinking? Can you share a story with us? Can you explain why it was so resonant with you?
Yes, one of my favorite books is, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. Anyone on a significant journey in life should read this book. There’s a quote within this book that speaks volumes to me: “The place to improve the world is first in one’s own heart and head and hands, and then work outward from there.”
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
“If you don’t know which way to go — go uphill.” My goal in life is to spend my time doing meaningful things, not easy things. If I find myself lost, I don’t look for the path of least resistance, I look for the path that takes me up. I may never get to the top but at least I’m climbing mountains.
You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. 🙂
If I could inspire a movement and leave something good behind for the most amount of people, I truly feel that everyone should teach at some point in their life. And I don’t just mean in an educational setting, but in life. Try and teach someone something new — help another person push the limits. Not only is it empowering, but by teaching someone something new or foreign, you are helping someone inspire creativity and build a new knowledge that they may not have had before.
Meet The Disruptors: Trevor Rappleye Of FranchiseFilming On The Five Things You Need To Shake Up Your Industry
An Interview With Fotis Georgiadis
“If you have a product, yet no one knows it exists, you have nothing.” — You can have the best product or service in the world, but if no one knows it exists, you’re invisible to your target audience. You have to network, spend money on marketing, take risks, and stay in front of your ideal buyers on a consistent basis. Your business can’t scale if you’re behind your own computer screen all the time. Trust me — it pays to get out there!
As a part of our series about business leaders who are shaking things up in their industry, I had the pleasure of interviewing Trevor Rappleye, CEO of FranchiseFilming & CorporateFilming.
Trevor Rappleye is the CEO of FranchiseFilming & CorporateFilming, an industry leader in producing full-service video marketing content for the franchise industry. Utilizing the company’s proprietary VIP National Subscription model, these videos drive franchise development, recruitment, and sales opportunities. Trevor began filming with his parent’s ancient VHS camera when he was just 13 and has been in love with emotion and storytelling ever since. To date, Trevor’s video production companies have experienced 3,000% growth in the franchise industry, by sharing authentic, unscripted stories for prominent brands such as Neighborly, Batteries Plus, Fast Signs, Franconnect, United Franchise Group, and more. He used to stutter, got C’s in high school, and — at the late age of 24 — finally identified himself as a member of the LGBTQ community. He’s here to tell you — if you put in the work and LOVE what you do, great things will happen.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we dig in, our readers would like to get to know you a bit more. Can you tell us a bit about your “backstory”? What led you to this particular career path?
I’ve been in love with filming since I was a kid. I’ve never truly had another full-time job — I’ve always just filmed for myself and loved capturing fun family moments, weddings and friends’ adventures. In high school, we had KBFT TV- the №1 high school live news station in the nation and that’s where my passion picked up. At 17 years old, I worked at KCRA 3 / NBC as an intern. They even put me on live television five times!
We began filming corporate events and small business videos in 2015 and literally fell into franchising in 2019. One of our first clients, Go Minis (who found us on Google / Yelp) recommended we go to the International Franchise Association’s (IFA) annual convention. At the time, I didn’t even know what a “franchisor” was — I thought it was a typo!
In all seriousness, we fell into this path — but we also took the risk of breaking into a new niche that was severely underserved. I walked the expo floor at IFA 2019 — and maybe 5% of the booths had video and testimonials. I was flabbergasted! How does this $819 billion dollar industry not know the power of story, emotion, and testimonials? Insert FranchiseFilming!
Can you tell our readers what it is about the work you’re doing that’s disruptive?
One word sums our company up: Simplicity. We’ve developed a national membership model to serve our franchise clients that is simple, easy to use, and transparent. The bigger the client, the easier they want things to be and the more they want YOU to handle. With our VIP Membership Model:
We create monthly marketing videos with zero hassle.
We never charge travel fees — transparent rate, it never raises throughout the partnership!
We edit the first video in just 10 days.
We don’t use scripts — only real, authentic stories.
We are solving three pain points for this industry:
How do I film my franchisees? They’re based everywhere and travel could get expensive. Insert our National VIP Membership Model — no travel fees, ever!
I hate waiting months for my videos — okay, done in 10 days!
I don’t have time to manage a film crew — We handle all scheduling and logistics! Just tell us who to film — and we handle the rest, such as scheduling, vision, logistics, etc!
Can you share a story about the funniest mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?
Going into franchising, I didn’t know the difference between a franchise, franchisor and franchisee. The franchisee is the individual owner of the franchise concept (such as a Fast Signs or Dunkin’ Donuts) and the franchisor sells the opportunity to prospective franchisees that invest in their proven systems.
I didn’t understand the business model and, at my first big meeting, I came across as a real newbie. I kept trying to correct the person in front of me, saying, “You mean you’re the franchise? Franchisor isn’t right.”
Rightfully so, that conversation led to nothing, and I learned a powerful lesson that day! I learned: Don’t be afraid to speak up and ask questions if you are confused. It’s perfectly fine to question what you don’t know. People appreciate it — as everyone used to be a newbie in the space!
We all need a little help along the journey. Who have been some of your mentors? Can you share a story about how they made an impact?
One of my business coaches and mentors has been Vaughn Sigmon of Results Driven Leadership. He’s been with me since Day One, back when I had an 80-square foot office to myself. He’s helped me realize some key things. I thought I had to film everything — but in order to scale, I had to step back and let other talented people take the spotlight.
My father, Kevin Rappleye, has also been one of my mentors and biggest supporters. He did so well in the hotel industry niche, selling to a specific group of people — and that’s what we are doing in franchising!
The two key insights I learned from them are:
It’s better to be №1 in a small niche, than to be №50 in a big industry (the fish in the pond reference). If you stay the former, you’ll become the go-to resource and industry thought leader that much quicker!
Always remember the 80/20 rule. In business and in life, 80% of our success comes from only 20% of our activity. By focusing on the 20% that works and generates revenue, any business venture can skyrocket with growth. Our 20% activity was the franchising industry — and now it’s become 80% of our focus. Hence, our tremendous growth which is tied back to our niche focus, our talented team, and the passion our brand has for story.
In today’s parlance, being disruptive is usually a positive adjective. But is disrupting always good? When do we say the converse, that a system or structure has ‘withstood the test of time’? Can you articulate to our readers when disrupting an industry is positive, and when disrupting an industry is ‘not so positive’? Can you share some examples of what you mean?
Disruption is a great thing, especially if you’re revitalizing a sleepy, dying industry. For example, Yellow Cabs come to mind. The fact that we didn’t know the cost of the ride and we didn’t know when they would arrive for pickup — was terrible. The taxi industry deserved to be disrupted by Uber because they got complacent.
When it comes to Amazon, disruption can be seen as either good or bad. Amazon has changed the world in a positive light — we can now get food within an hour or a big sofa in just one day. No more waiting weeks or going into the store. But it also put a lot of small retailers out of business. It honestly depends on who you ask.
I’m a big fan of Ethical Capitalism — if someone builds a better mousetrap, and you don’t pivot or change, that’s on you. Always be changing and growing, because if you don’t- you’re dying. If you can grow a profitable company, create jobs, and better the life of your team while serving your clients well — that’s what makes capitalism great. Capitalism is not (and should not) ever be considered a bad thing.
If someone doesn’t like something, they are welcome to start their own company, take tremendous risks and build something from scratch. Building a business is hard and success never happens overnight.
Can you share five of the best words of advice you’ve gotten along your journey? Please give a story or example for each.
The five best words of advice I’ve received include these following examples:
YWSYLS. “You win some, you lose some, who cares?” This applies to the sales process. Don’t get hung up on deals you didn’t close. I remember back in 2021, we lost out on a $100,000 deal that I was certain we’d close. I got complacent and stopped selling for weeks -the wrong decision! They backed out, and it floored me — I was sad for days, even weeks. I‘ve since learned not to rely on one big sale — your sales pipeline should always be full of prospects! Until the check clears, the deal is NOT CLOSED.
“Your ego is showing” This refers to scalability, as a first time CEO. In order to scale, you have to put your ego aside. People don’t want TREVOR onsite. They want a great, inspiring video, produced on time, under budget, and with a great partner. We began to scale our efforts when I stopped being present on every single filming session in 2020. I could then focus on sales. The minute that I implemented processes, a system, and began hiring and training based on our values and mission — we grew like crazy.
“You can have scale or control, but you can’t have both.” Same as above — if you want to control everything, you’ll stay small forever. Allow your team to grow and learn on their own, even if they make mistakes. We, as entrepreneurs, make mistakes all the time — shouldn’t our team be able to do the same?
“If you chase two rabbits, you’ll end up catching none.” I’m a firm believer that you can’t focus and do TWO things extremely well. If you aren’t focused on ONE thing (for us, that’s now franchising and our VIP Membership Model), you’ll end up doing a couple of things on an average level. It’s better to do one thing well than five things on an average level. This is why (since 2020) we don’t go to 10+ expos in multiple industries, we only concentrate on the franchising industry.
“If you have a product, yet no one knows it exists, you have nothing.” — You can have the best product or service in the world, but if no one knows it exists, you’re invisible to your target audience. You have to network, spend money on marketing, take risks, and stay in front of your ideal buyers on a consistent basis. Your business can’t scale if you’re behind your own computer screen all the time. Trust me — it pays to get out there!
We are sure you aren’t done. How are you going to shake things up next?
We’re launching a new training video program and a new microsite, FilmMyFranchisees.com — both of which will help franchisors in many new ways. We can now create (and handle everything) engaging and authentic training videos to address specific needs — such as lowering the risk of workplace injuries, the associated costs for in-person training sessions, and much more. FilmMyFranchisees is a new partnership with OnlineImage, a marketing services provider, that will allow us to film 300+ franchisees at a single internal brand conference. But each franchisee will receive a localized, humanized marketing video, with the capacity to increase their own conversions, leads, and sales at the local level — all by showing up organically as an SEO piece of video content, instead of a website. It’s a game changer for franchisors and franchisees alike — an opportunity to provide localized videos, with measurable ROI, for each of the attending franchisees. Everyone will receive a $100K video value for a 1/10 of the cost, because the fee is distributed amongst both the franchisor and franchisee. They’ll simply pay a monthly maintenance fee for a three-year term to have their personal video appear on Google, enhancing their own SEO, and much more.
Do you have a book, podcast, or talk that’s had a deep impact on your thinking? Can you share a story with us? Can you explain why it was so resonant with you?
I am in love with “365 Days of Leadership” by John C. Maxwell. I’ve read it cover-to-cover several times and my entire team has a copy. As a leader, it really woke me up to the notion that I have to care, set a vision, and plan for the future. The only way to grow a company is to generate more leaders.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
“If success was easy, everyone would be successful.” If you truly want to grow your business and make money, you have to give up late nights on the weekends and sleeping in on workdays. In 2019, I began waking up at 5:30 a.m. and working 70-hour weeks — and my business scaled. You’re entitled to nothing, but if you work for it, success will eventually come. I’m a firm believer that the world owes you nothing — not healthcare, money, food, security — nothing. Some may say I work too much, but success doesn’t come easy. I’m putting in the work now so I can have a better life when I am older.
It was this kind of thinking that woke me up and helped me move on from a bad partnership situation back in 2015. By the year 2018, I was $80,000 in debt — the result of paying myself only $1,000 a month for years. I never disclosed this fact, and my team had no idea. Things simply had to change. Between 2017–2021, there were many months that I went without a salary. But it was necessary if I wanted my company to scale.
I’ve learned to assume the risk and put in the work now — to stop avoiding it. Almost everyone that’s successful now had to work hard to get there. As a new CEO, you get paid last — the business comes first.
You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. 🙂
I’d like to see a movement where people strived to be more authentic, sharing their own stories without fear of acceptance. Stop trying to play a certain role and care less about what people think. If you’ll just be YOU — more true success will come your way then you can ever imagine.
… The ability to build & sell — will make you invincible. I don’t think a great product will sell itself and make a great company. You need great marketing as well and vice versa.
As a part of our series, “Making Something From Nothing,” I had the pleasure of interviewing Julian Jagtenberg.
Julian Jagtenberg is the CEO and Co-Founder of Somnox, a category-carving company known for developing the first intelligent sleep companion proven to improve the quality of rest. Julian (26) brings a passion for robotics to his role at Somnox, where he and his team have built a science-backed sleep companion, shown to improve breathing and settle the mind for better sleep, recovery, and quality of life. Julian graduated with honors from the Delft University of Technology with a degree in Industrial Design. He also holds a minor in Robotics from the Delft Biorobotics Lab — 3mE (Faculty of Mechanical, Maritime, and Materials Engineering).
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before diving in, our readers would love to learn more about you. Can you tell us a bit about your “childhood backstory”?
As a child, I always wanted to become an inventor who could create things that would eventually change the world. Growing up, I always looked around to see what I could build, fidgeting with LEGOs and building soap boxes and treehouses in the garden. I was obsessed with creating, and during that time, I had an infatuation with Star Wars and robotics. It fascinated me how we, as humans, could create lifelike companions that would be able to help us with daily challenges. One of the items I was inspired by was Gyro Gearloose, which is a character that invents all sorts of crazy stuff, but the point was these inventions remained within his garage and were never shown to the world.
During high school, I participated in a curriculum called “technasium,” helping young kids use their beta skills to design products. Choosing Delft University of Technology in the Netherlands made sense since that was where many sound innovations came from, like the solar car and that sort of stuff.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
I live by the quote, “He who has a why can overcome any how.” It is a quote by Viktor Frankl, who wrote the book Man’s Search for Meaning. The reason why this quote is so important to me is that life can be challenging. Especially being an entrepreneur, the odds are not always in your favor. Knowing why you do what you do will enable you to overcome many challenges and even attract people with the same “why” and may have a tremendous impact on your goals.
Is there a particular book, podcast, or film that significantly impacted you? Can you share a story or explain why it resonated with you?
I enjoy reading books — the book that changed my life is A Guide to The Good Life by William B Irvine. The main takeaway is to have a radical focus on what you can control and be less worried about everything you can’t control. The book is about stoicism, which I believe is an excellent philosophy for life that provides practical ways to cope with challenges and help turn them into more pleasant experiences. One of the other key takeaways is how controlling your mindset and reaction to external events is a powerful thing to train. I always give this book as a gift to family and friends because it provides the tools to deal with modern life, even though stoicism originates from the ancient Greeks.
I even host a monthly book club for founders! Learn more at founderbookclub.com
Ok super. Let’s now shift to the central part of our discussion. There is no shortage of good ideas out there. Many people have good ideas all the time. But people seem to struggle to translate a good idea into an actual business. Can you share a few pictures from your experience about how to overcome this challenge?
Many people have great ideas, but only a few can execute their vision and bring it into the world. I think, first of all, knowing why this idea needs to be in the world and being super motivated to succeed crucially. 99.9% of people won’t pursue their idea simply because it’s effortless to say, “I could have thought of that.” One of the hardest things you can do is not necessarily build a business but build a product. To increase your luck, I have three practical tips. Tip one is to have the perseverance, time, and dedication to execute your idea. Be aware that it won’t be easy, and you’ll have to go all in. My second tip is to start small; try to make prototypes and give them to customers. Make it tangible as soon as possible, and talk to the user to gain feedback immediately. With that feedback, you will be more confident that the idea is worth pursuing. Lastly, my third tip is to assemble a team and partner up with other companies whose mission and motivation are philosophically aligned with yours. In our case, we are helping people sleep better, so we partnered up (early on) with a company that had the same mission but wasn’t a competitor. Instead, they were complementary to what we were doing and were already making significant progress leveraging their experience to bring their product to market.
Often when people think of a new idea, they dismiss it saying someone else must have thought of it before. How would you recommend that someone go about researching whether or not their idea has already been created?
I love the quote: “People don’t have ideas; ideas have people” by Carl Jung. It’s this conviction that all ideas are probably already out there and someone likely already thought of them. Like Steve Jobs said, “it’s about connecting the dots, and you can only do that by collecting as many dots (e.g., experiences and lessons) at scale.” So it’s not about necessarily having the idea; it’s about executing the concept. Also, if you research, you will find that someone may already have this idea. I would say that’s a great thing because if there is no competition, that’s often a very bad sign. It means you’re in a market that’s not there, or you hit the jackpot. The secret sauce is finding those initial ideas on the internet and proving that you can execute them using the existing knowledge to stand on the shoulders of giants.
For the benefit of our readers, can you outline the steps one has to go through, from when they think of the idea until it finally lands in a customer’s hands? In particular, we’d love to hear about how to file a patent, source a good manufacturer, and find a retailer to distribute it.
I could probably write a book about this question, but I will keep it brief. First, it’s about creating something people want and fulfilling a need early on. The only way to do that is to talk with users about their problems. Fall in love with the problem and fall in love with the consumer having these problems. You’ll get a lot of information on what it is they are genuinely experiencing and how you could potentially solve that problem. A common mistake is having technology solve a problem vs. a problem in search of technology. Once you understand the problem, you can start building initial prototypes: physical or non-physical products that test with the same user. It’s talking to users at scale, really understanding how they work, live, what they think, hear, and feel, and you can then actually get into something that might be the solution. Second, I think it’s vital to understand if you are solving a very urgent problem. Is it a bleeding neck problem, or are you creating a slight increase in the status quo? I always aim to create a bleeding neck problem solution because that’s where people have an urgent need for your product. Once you get in the prototype phase and assemble a team that can help you, it’s a good idea to talk with a patent attorney upfront to determine if you have invented a new product. Based on that, ask yourself, “do I truly have something novel, and do I feel I will continue this process to file a patent.” If the answer to those questions is yes, I would recommend it. It’s expensive to invest in intellectual property, but it’s necessary to gain future investments and protect your business. Next, make more prototypes and continue testing because it’s the only way to know you have something that works, honestly. Once successful and confident it works, you could start to sort manufacturers that can produce and deliver your product. Finding manufacturers is a skill, and I would look into it with experts. It’s about what fits your brand and how production affects sustainability. I would be very selective in picking partners because you will continue to do business with them for a long time. Then, when you have built the product and it’s ready to ship, it’s vital to understand where your products should be sold and how to distribute them. Again, the same tool is applicable; you need to talk to the user and ask, “where do you currently look when trying to find a solution for a problem” and “where do you pay for those solutions”? Only when you genuinely understand that can you pursue retailers, design your website, go for Google Ads, or maybe even go in person knocking on doors. Do things that don’t scale in the beginning. Validate you found a channel with the right messaging to talk to the right audience before you pour in a lot of money to make it work.
What are your “5 Things I Wish Someone Told Me When I First Started Leading My Company” and why?
Validate the product first — see if people are willing to pay for it before investing in production and hiring. This is essential and part of the credo of YC (Y Combinator) — talk to users and write code.
People are the most important, so be extremely strict in hiring — the people you let in determine your culture and brand values; you should never settle for mediocre talent. You need people with the grind and hunger to make it a big success.
In the same vein as number 2 above, be very strict on who gets equity in the company — shares are an excellent motivator for talent to join the team given the ‘high risk, high reward’ structure — but, especially in the beginning, you can make costly mistakes with investors playing tricks on you — that may heavily dilute your stake in the company. Getting advice from lawyers on that topic is crucial — don’t let the information advantage investors often have to fool you into getting into a deal that may get you in trouble.
Take care of your health first at all times. Your company is your baby — and you will do everything to make it a success; it will be an obsession — yet with much uncertainty. It’s easy to forget about your energy, health, family, and friends. Yet this is vital to do what it takes. Sleep, exercise, and a healthy diet should be on your to-do list.
The ability to build & sell — will make you invincible. I don’t think a great product will sell itself and make a great company. You need great marketing as well and vice versa.
Let’s imagine that readers reading this interview have an idea for a product they would like to invent. What are the first few steps that you would recommend that they take?
The first step I would take is to create physical prototypes to put in the hands of real users. Determine their feedback — do they like it, do they hate it? Are they willing to pay for it? After multiple iterations of what you’re creating, you will have an idea if it’s worth pursuing and translating into a tangible product. When it comes to hardware, I would be even more skeptical: is this problem only able to be solved through a hardware component? If not, see if you can solve the problem in a more scalable manner.
There are many invention development consultants. Would you recommend that a person with a new idea hire such a consultant, or should they try to strike out independently?
I would recommend asking people who have done it before and finding a mentor who has already created something similar to what you are doing. You might find that people are very willing to pass on their experiences and share information that will help you avoid the pitfalls they may have experienced. Also, in my experience, people are open to connecting with you and talking, so don’t hesitate to reach out with a personalized message. Be sure to indicate why you want to get in touch, what they should help you with, and make it accessible by offering lunch or coffee!
What are your thoughts about bootstrapping vs. looking for venture capital? What is the best way to decide if you should do either one?
Bootstrapping is the best way to go in the beginning if you’re the first to find the product-market fit. This is a term to say that you found the customer willing to pay for it. You can scale that only if you have found that you can do it, then it’s a good idea to get venture capital. But getting a profitable company to reinvest those profits into growth is much more powerful. I would be apprehensive about getting venture capital as a standard way of building your company. Bootstrapping is something people can appreciate, and you might end up having more control over the quality of your company. So only get venture capital if it’s essential because I think the best funding you can get is paying happy customers.
Ok. We are nearly done. Here are our final questions. How have you used your success to make the world a better place?
Somnox aims to help 100 million worldwide achieve better sleep by 2030. Their patented technology provides users with a science-backed sleep companion to relieve feelings of stress and anxiety, resulting in deeper, more restful sleep. We found stunning reviews of people changing the quality of their life by improving the quality of their sleep — from police officers with PTSD to athletes looking to improve their performance by improving their sleep.
You are an inspiration to a great many people. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger.
For me, that would be prioritizing sleep — if everyone slept well, the world would be such a beautiful place. When we’re sleeping, we enter a deep recovery state that allows us to combat life’s stressors.
We are blessed that some of the biggest names in Business, VC funding, Sports, and Entertainment read this column. Is there a person in the world or the US with whom you would love to have a private breakfast or lunch, and why? They might see this if we tag them.
Matthew Walker is one of the leading sleep scientists and the author of the book “Why We Sleep.” I’d love to get in touch with him to discuss the future of sleep science and technology. Probably without coffee, since that ruins your sleep 😉
Thank you for these fantastic insights. We greatly appreciate the time you spent on this.
Make decisions that lead you toward your goals and who you want to be. Your day-to-day decisions will impact the rest of your life; make good decisions.
As a part of our series called “Making Something from Nothing,” I had the pleasure of interviewing Dr. Mary Kovach.
Dr. Mary Kovach is an associate professor with more than 15 years of undergraduate teaching experience. She earned her Ph.D. from Miami University, an MBA from Cleveland State University, and a Bachelor’s degree from Baldwin Wallace University. Additionally, Dr. Kovach earned a LEAN Six Sigma black belt (LSSBB) certification as well as multiple Agile certifications.
She spent 15 years at Fortune 500 companies managing multimillion-dollar global business units, earning a variety of management awards, and leading projects from inception to completion. Dr. Kovach is published in various scholarly journals and magazines and is also a blind peer reviewer to a variety of scholarly/academic journals. Furthermore, she was named to the International Editorial Board for The Journal of Values Based Leadership. Dr. Kovach has her own YouTube channel entitled Dr. K — The Management Professor, where her show “ROCKSTAR Manager” initially aired on the In the Limelight TV channel on Binge Networks.
Within the last few years, Dr. Kovach authored three books including #1 Best-Selling #MINDSET A Research-Based Approach to Understanding Motivation (Foreword by Sir Aaron Caruso, international award-winning tenor), ROCKSTAR Manager: From Theory to Practice (Foreword by Rocco DiSpirito, award-winning chef, author, and businessman), and with her cousins, Don’t Cut the Basil: Five Generations of Authentic Italian Recipes (Foreword by Ale Gambini, award-winning chef), which is a #1 international best-selling cookbook.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we dive in, our readers would love to learn a bit more about you. Can you tell us a bit about your backstory?
Absolutely! For the first 15 years of my career, I worked for Fortune 500 companies. I had various departments underneath me from all over the world, so I managed day-to-day P&Ls valued at hundreds of millions of dollars as well as led major projects — such as moving call centers oversees or being required to optimize processes, ultimately shutting down large facilities. It was intense but a great experience. I started teaching as an adjunct professor and loved it. I was presented with an opportunity to transition into teaching full-time, completely changing career lanes and then earning my Ph.D. as well as tenure. I took advantage of the transition from face-to-face courses to online courses by building a YouTube channel, and instead of writing articles for scholarly journals, I started writing books. My most recent book entitled #MINDSET A Research-Based Approach to Understanding Motivation earned ten #1 placements during its launch week on Amazon! I also have two other books, ROCKSTAR Manager: From Theory to Practice, and the #1 international best-selling Don’t Cut the Basil: Five Generations of Authentic Italian Recipes.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
Since this interview is about launching ideas into reality, I’ll share a quote from Walt Disney. He said “If you can dream it, you can do it.” I believe that. The only thing stopping you, is you. Graham Cooke said, “You can tell the quality of someone’s inner life by the amount of opposition it takes to discourage them.” If you want something that bad — go for it. The sky is the limit!!
Is there a particular book, podcast, or film that made a significant impact on you? Can you share a story or explain why it resonated with you so much?
Yes! I joined Dame Clarissa Burt’s Mastermind group in 2020. This professional group of rock star women shared insight, resources, feedback, and provided continuous support. These women were at the top of their respective professions and willing ambassadors for this tight-knit network. Clarissa personally facilitated each Mastermind session, and they were always filled with laughter, intellect, and practical application.
Ok super. Let’s now shift to the main part of our discussion. There is no shortage of good ideas out there. Many people have good ideas all the time. But people seem to struggle in taking a good idea and translating it into an actual business. Can you share a few ideas from your experience about how to overcome this challenge?
You’re exactly right. There are a million ideas out there, but most people don’t transition that idea into something tangible. I see the biggest obstacle in overcoming this challenge as precisely that — those willing to roll up their sleeves and dedicate the time and effort to seeing their idea through to fruition, and those who don’t act on their ideas. Whatever your idea is, break it down into much smaller milestones. Create realistic time frames around achieving each of these milestones; then, block out time daily or weekly in your calendar to ensure you hit each milestone.
What are your “5 Things I Wish Someone Told Me When I First Started Leading My Company” and why?
If I had to share five, they would be:
My dad always told me, “Be a leader, not a follower.” It’s amazing how your perspective will change with that mindset.
Make decisions that lead you toward your goals and who you want to be. Your day-to-day decisions will impact the rest of your life; make good decisions.
Pay attention to your commitments, not only to ensure you fulfill them, but that you don’t overcommit. Those who produce great results are always asked to do more.
Understand how to manage your own finances. Know your current revenue streams and continuously think of others in your future pipeline. Pay attention to your expenses and only pay for what you need, not what you want.
Don’t self-select out. You were picked for a reason. There’s always a learning curve; if other people believe in you, you should believe in you, too!
Let’s imagine that a reader reading this interview has an idea for a product that they would like to invent. What are the first few steps that you would recommend that they take?
There are many ways to approach new product development from inception to execution. Here, I suggest you do some research to ensure there are no similar products on the market. Search for keywords specific to your product and industry to ensure you know what products are on the market and what you’re likely to experience. Then, find different groups on various social media platforms that can provide insight, familiarity, and provide some guidance whether there is a need in the marketplace for your product. I would also find a mentor in the field 1) who previously launched a product and can provide you with references (for details like applying for patents, creating and securing trademarks, etc.), 2) who is willing to be a sounding board and provide constructive feedback, and 3) who is someone you can genuinely trust.
There are many invention development consultants. Would you recommend that a person with a new idea hire such a consultant, or should they try to strike out on their own?
Every person is different. For those with a solid capital backing and prefer professional advice that minimizes risk, hire a specialized consultant. From there, interview multiple consultants to learn which is the best fit for you — including your personality, communication style, expected outcomes, and fees. For those with minimal capital but big ideas who are comfortable with a little more risk, start researching on your own. This will allow you to make decisions that best fit the direction of your business and potentially build a network along the way. You can always hire someone down the road, but diving in can add more value to your experience.
Ok. We are nearly done. Here are our final questions. How have you used your success to make the world a better place?
I think everyone has something that makes them unique. Learn what lights a fire in you and build on it. Own it. Love it. We only get one life to live, and nobody knows how long we’ll be here. Find your passion and share it with the world!
One of the blessings I’ve had is a successful career. For the last 12 years, I’ve sponsored girls from Mexico and India. I spent many cumulative months staying at an orphanage in Mexico, and I want to show my girls that they are loved, they have support, and they can be whomever they want. I have one girl from India who visited the U.S. and we spent about a week together. All of them have so much passion for life, generous hearts, and are so intelligent, that I can’t wait to see their impact on the world! So to answer your question, I hope that through my success, I can have a larger ripple effect from my personal relationships with these girls who can transform the next generation of female leaders.
You are an inspiration to a great many people. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger.
Thank you, that means a lot. I’m a professor and launched a YouTube channel a couple of years ago. When leaving a class or ending a video, I end with “Be your best you.” This means that you have something to contribute, and it’s your responsibility to share it with everyone. The decisions you make impact who you become. Think about who you want to be and make decisions to ensure that you become your best version of yourself. Nobody’s perfect, but you can make an effort every day to be your best you.
Thank you for these fantastic insights. We greatly appreciate the time you spent on this.
It’s been my pleasure! Thank you for your time and questions!
Meet The Disruptors: Andrea Lisbona Of Touchland On The Five Things You Need To Shake Up Your Industry
An Interview With Fotis Georgiadis
Focus — Don’t lose sight of what you’re trying to accomplish — always keep your eye on the prize, no matter the obstacles that come your way and can distract you.
As a part of our series about business leaders who are shaking things up in their industry, I had the pleasure of interviewing Andrea Lisbona.
Andrea Lisbona is a millennial entrepreneur and Barcelona native, set out to disrupt the stale hand sanitizer industry with her innovative brand, Touchland, aimed at elevating everyday experiences, which has been in the works for more than a decade. Inspired by great innovators and the marriage of great function with great design, Andrea developed Touchland, a revolutionary brand of hand sanitizers that combine sleek, functional packaging with non-sticky, moisturizing, luxurious-feeling formulas that now come in fourteen reformulated and elevated amazing scents.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we dig in, our readers would like to get to know you a bit more. Can you tell us a bit about your “backstory”? What led you to this particular career path?
I come from an entrepreneurial background, so naturally I always knew this career path would be for me. I came to the US in college and saw how many people use hand sanitizers, but at the same time, the experience was awful! The goopy, sticky formulas smell terrible (like cheap vodka or tequila) and dry out your skin — I kept thinking, “how is something that people use every day such a bad experience?” I quickly realized the hand sanitizer market was ripe for disruption; this is a category that had consistently grown for 20+ years with zero innovation or creativity. There was a clear opportunity to elevate this everyday experience from a necessary evil to a pleasurable ritual.
Can you tell our readers what it is about the work you’re doing that’s disruptive?
Touchland is the first hand sanitizer that gives you a beauty experience. The packaging was very strategically designed to be both functional and visually appealing, the formula is a skin-moisturizing spray (not a goopy gel) with zero stickiness, and the products come in a variety of elevated scents such as Pure Lavender, Blue Sandalwood, Beach Coco and more. This year, we also introduced the Glow Mist Rosewater Hand Sanitizer, the first skincare-infused hand sanitizer to nourish and renew the appearance of your hands.
Can you share a story about the funniest mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?
One of my funniest mistakes happened while presenting on national television in Barcelona for international handwashing day on May 5th, 2014. I was presenting our dispenser and demonstrating how it works. I had to remove the cartridge and ended up putting it in the wrong way. When it came time to present nothing actually dispensed, so to make it look like I didn’t mess up, I had to pretend to rub the product into my hands. Ever since then I always ensure that that anything I’m using is working and I know how to use it before a presentation.
We all need a little help along the journey. Who have been some of your mentors? Can you share a story about how they made an impact?
I really look up to Steve Jobs and Gabrielle “Coco” Chanel as innovators who managed to marry great design with functionality. Both superb visionaries challenged the norm and created brands that have grown and sustained a reputation that continues to flourish in their absence. I strive to create a brand with brilliance that can excel into a trailblazer.
In today’s parlance, being disruptive is usually a positive adjective. But is disrupting always good? When do we say the converse, that a system or structure has ‘withstood the test of time’? Can you articulate to our readers when disrupting an industry is positive, and when disrupting an industry is ‘not so positive’? Can you share some examples of what you mean?
Disrupting an industry is always a positive attribute once you are making a positive impact in society. A positive disruptor will always change the way we think of things, uprooting traditions and paving the way for reinvention. If you are causing harm or adding to the issues already at hand, this can lead to a negative disruption. If you innovating in a category where you are not needed or if your consumers are uninterested, then you need to find another option that will work. It takes years to dedicate time and patience to research to truly understands the wants and needs of an industry to truly disrupt it.
Can you share five of the best words of advice you’ve gotten along your journey? Please give a story or example for each.
Perseverance — no matter what, you are going to go through lots of challenges on your journey. Having been in entrepreneurial family and going from having everything to losing everything when I was young is what keeps me on track and helps motivate me.
Passion — when I first pitched my idea to the general director of my business school, who happened to be the first woman to be leading that institution, she wrote a blog post afterwards saying “Andrea had fire in her eyes.” It’s important to make sure that whatever you end up persuing in life you do it with drive, and you do it with immense passion — you’ll end up with success.
Adaptability — If it’s one thing I learned is that there are going to be unexpected circumstances. You have to be flexible, sometimes thinking quickly on your feet, to navigate through changes, ebbs and flows. Keep in mind that there is always more than one way to reach your destination.
Focus — Don’t lose sight of what you’re trying to accomplish — always keep your eye on the prize, no matter the obstacles that come your way and can distract you.
Instinct — trusting your gut to follow your dreams against what other’s say. Believe in your dream and follow that instinct to make it into a reality.
We are sure you aren’t done. How are you going to shake things up next?
We are continuing to expand our portfolio of Power Mist scent options, which our audience is always excited for. On social media, the top question is always “what scent is next?” After the success of our first collaboration with Disney, we are lining up some really fun and exciting new collabs later this year and early next year. We are also currently looking at other categories for innovation. Touchland is not slowing down anytime soon!
Do you have a book, podcast, or talk that’s had a deep impact on your thinking? Can you share a story with us? Can you explain why it was so resonant with you?
One of the books that I’ve read that’s really resonated with me is Principles by Ray Dalio. I really liked learning his principals on what and how to become the next Steve Jobs of finance. As an inspiration of mine, it’s great to learn how others are also looking towards him for guidance on how to become the next big thing.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
Always remember the bigger picture. When it comes to launching a brand, or anything you set your mind to, there will be so many ups and downs along the way. You will face many challenges, but it’s important to come back and remind yourself of why you started in the first place.
You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. 🙂
I would love to spark a movement where we’re able to transfer everything we’ve learned and share that with other aspiring founders without asking for anything in return. Being a founder is an invaluable lesson, so I’d love for us to come together and teach them how to survive financially, offering pro-bono entrepreneurship master classes. How rewarding would it be investing in others without asking for their investment in return.
You are in control. Take charge. It’s about you and the audience, not about the feelings of a couple of people running the A/V.
At some point in our lives, many of us will have to give a talk to a large group of people. What does it take to be a highly effective public speaker? How can you improve your public speaking skills? How can you overcome a fear of speaking in public? What does it take to give a very interesting and engaging public talk? In this interview series called “5 Things You Need To Be A Highly Effective Public Speaker” we are talking to successful and effective public speakers to share insights and stories from their experience. As a part of this series, we had the pleasure of interviewing Mark Zinder.
Mark Zinder is a leading financial expert, trend forecaster, and seasoned keynote speaker. He has traveled the globe delivering more than 2,000 presentations to hundreds of thousands of people around the world. Laughing is the key to learning and connecting with your clients is the key to success.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Our readers would love to get to know you a bit better. Can you tell us the story of how you grew up?
I grew up in Birmingham, Alabama, but was born in Frankfurt, KY. My Dad, ignoring the advice of friends and the explosive news of racial tension that was developing in the deep south, decided to pack us up and move the family to Alabama. It was 1961 — I was five. Originally both my parents called New York City home and living in the troubled south in the 1960s was not my mother’s notion of a good idea. After living in a small duplex for over a year, she did what many protective mothers would do at that time — while my dad was on a business trip, she put a contract on a house in a great neighborhood with an outstanding school system. When my dad returned home my mother took him to see the 3,500-square-foot, two-story colonial house on a well-manicured one-acre lot. My parents rarely argued but that day I remember my father repeatedly saying, “We will never be able to afford this house!” My mother, ever the persuasive and spunky New Yorker, was unwavering — she wanted the house. Dad called his stockbroker for advice and Tom told him that in his lifetime, he would pay more for a new car than he would for the house my mother was begging to own. Reluctantly, Dad purchased the house.
So, we moved to Mountain Brook, Alabama, a suburb of Birmingham, with an outstanding school system and a contingent of mainly upper-middle-class, white, Anglo Saxon, Christian neighbors that was comprised mostly of doctors, lawyers, architects, engineers, CPAs, and a smattering of steel magnates and a few other wealthy business owners, which, I might add, was not our pedigree. My parents were first-generation Polish and Russian immigrants that embraced Judaism as their religion and would not be welcomed in this mainly pristine white Christian neighborhood (which the real estate agent was so kind to continually point out). To say that we were not accepted would be an understatement. Attending the Cotillion Dance or being invited to join the Mountain Brook Country Club would be reserved for another era — one that still has not emerged. But we soldiered on, living in that beautiful home with its magnificent one-acre manicured lawn.
A couple of decades later, as predicted, my father purchased a car that cost more than that two-story colonial.
Can you share a story with us about what brought you to this specific career path.
This is a story I rarely share — but it is very important to the topic of this interview. As a child, I had a speech impediment — a lisp. A simple word that described my impediment perfectly, which also was too obvious to ignore by the 5th-grade bullies (back in the 60’s they were simply referred to as “classmates”), because the word, thank you very much, contained the letter “S”. The word lisp, for those afflicted with the impediment, is both the setup and the punchline to a very cruel joke. I was often teased, but would never have imagined that a family member would also do so. After embarrassing my social-climbing mother in front of her friends, later that night, in private (her intent was not to be cruel…in front of others, that is), she spat the word “lisp” at me, using the well-positioned “S” for emphasis. I can only conclude that she was hoping that she could mock the impediment out of me. I ran to my room and cried myself to sleep. It hurt…but it also helped. I vowed to correct my speech impediment one way or the other. I practiced for hours upon hours in front of a mirror. I got better. For years I practiced more and got better still. I then did the most courageous thing of all for any 16-year-old with questionable self-esteem. I auditioned for the lead in the high school play. Days later the cast was posted on the wall outside the drama teacher’s room and my name was near the top, not the lead, but the one playing the comedic role of a character named Snazzy in the play, “Life of the Party.” Six weeks later, it was the opening night of a three-day run. After the successful Thursday night performance, the cast, one at a time, came back on stage to take their bows and receive their obligatory applauses from family and friends. Since I had one of the leading roles, I was one of the last to take the stage and take my bow. I remember this moment vividly — like it was yesterday — a defining moment in my life. I walked out on stage and watched the entire audience rise to their feet. I was receiving a standing ovation.
I knew that very minute what I was going to do the rest of my life — I was going to live it on the stage!
Can you tell us the most interesting story that happened to you since you began your career?
I was invited to be a main platform speaker at one of the largest conferences in the world. In 2005, I was asked to present to over 10,000 individuals as a mainstage speaker in Bangkok, Thailand, and with that many attendees, the organization needed to run a “tight ship.” My speaking slot was scheduled for 40 minutes — not 41, not 39 they emphasized — 40! I rehearsed numerous times. I had it down to the minute. I was prepared and ready to “nail it.”
The conference boasted of its worldwide membership and that attendees were coming from 27 different countries, which of course meant many different languages would be spoken. Any concerns of a language barrier were quickly cast off when we, as the group of speakers, learned that there would be translators for those non-English speaking members. I didn’t see that as a problem at the time. However, I use a lot of humor in my presentations, not jokes like “a guy walked into a bar,” but humor, like, “I was walking down the street and saw this interesting-looking bar across the street so I went in…” By the way, jokes are told in the third person, humor, in the first person. However, if you think about it, humor’s subtle nuances are not easily translated from one language to another.
It’s the day of the event. I’m on my spot, backstage, behind the curtain, listening to the organization’s president deliver my introduction. As he said, “Please help me welcome Mark Zinder,” the stage manager pulled back the curtain and gently shoved me out onto the stage. (I later learned that in the past, speakers would often freeze when the curtain was pulled back revealing the sea of people — so they intentionally assist you by giving you a little push.) After the applause died down, I begin with a few funny statements about myself and where I am from. I do this to get a read on how the audience will respond. Did they laugh? Then I become more animated — this is now a “performance.” Was the response tepid? Then I back it off a little bit and the delivery style is more akin to a “speech.” For me, the first few minutes are critical, as they will determine my pace for the remainder of the allotted time. I’m just a couple of minutes in and it hits me. About a third of the audience members are wearing headsets for the translation and it is taking a few additional seconds for the different interpreters to translate my American humor into their native tongue. Sometimes it takes more than just a few seconds as I watch from the stage, in front of thousands of people, as the laughter rolls. At first, a large group of English-speaking attendees begin to laugh, then, after a little lag, a group to my left began to laugh, and then another group, and another. They are not all receiving the same joke at the same time, which is fine — I’m a professional and will be able to adapt — until I look at the foot of the stage and see the giant digital clock ticking down the seconds. Even though I had rehearsed, I was not prepared for the laughter to roll and last as long as it did.
As Vice President Dan Quayle once said, “One word sums up probably the responsibility of any vice-president, and that one word is ‘to be prepared.’”
Yes, that is three words, and that’s what makes the gaff so funny. But as a speaker, on stage, by yourself, without other members of a cast to bail you out if you forget a line, or band members to keep on playing if your mic goes dead, you are alone. Sometimes, when things go amiss, it feels like you are completely naked, much like that dream many of us have experienced the night before the first day of elementary school — introducing yourself in front of the entire class — unclothed!
Lesson learned, even though you think you have planned, rehearsed, and are ready, be prepared to pivot for the unexpected.
Can you share a story about the funniest mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?
After being the national spokesman for a large money management firm, it was time to leave the steady paycheck behind and venture out on my own. It was soon thereafter that I received an unexpected call from Jay Klahn, the owner of Dynamic Speakers, who, over the years, would also become a very good friend. He had a client that was interested in booking me for a speech and Jay had found my website online. We were getting the initial interview out of the way, and I said to him, “Jay, I’m really, really, good.” We then started doing a lot of work together, and our speaker/agent relationship flourished. About three years into our friendship, he said to me, “Hey, do you remember when we first spoke on the phone and you told me you were really, really, good?” I said, “I do.” He then replied, “Do you know how many speakers tell me they are really, really good?” and I said, “No, how many?” and he said, “All of them!”
Lesson learned: Prepare your unique elevator pitch to describe what makes you different and how you stand out from the crowd because, out of the blue one day, you might get a call from an agent. And they don’t want to hear from you that you are really, really, good — they want to hear that from the prospective client who saw you speak and is looking to hire you!
None of us are able to achieve success without some help along the way. Is there a particular person who you are grateful towards who helped get you to where you are? Can you share a story about that?
There is that one person in my life that was the motivation for my speaking success: it was my high school drama teacher, Karen York. She was the one who encouraged me to audition for the upcoming school play, and she is the one that metaphorically held my hand, molded me, and introduced me to one of the greatest “rushes” known to humankind — the standing ovation! There are thousands of speakers, and I have heard a lot of them. Those that stand behind the podium and read their prepared scripts — the ones that use no voice inflection or don’t even know how to use the stage or tell a joke or relate a story. Those that have something to say but simply don’t know how to say it. Karen York taught me that there was more than just reciting the rehearsed word. How you say it and how you use the stage. Voice inflection, timing, and non-verbal pauses are all key to an outstanding presentation. But it takes skill, and this skill is not innate — it is learned, and Karen took the time to teach it to me.
You have been blessed with great success in a career path that can be challenging and intimidating. Do you have any words of advice for others who may want to embark on this career path, but seem daunted by the prospect of failure?
Oh yes. My advice is both simple and difficult. “Be so good, they have to like you!” Simple in theory, difficult in practice.
Many speakers dream of getting the call from an agent and having them fill their calendar with speaking engagements, and all we have to focus on is getting to the event on time. Let me throw a wet rag on that right now. You are the presenter and the agent! You are always selling. While taking Daniel Pink’s Master Class (yes, I am still learning and trying to perfect my craft), I learned that we spend roughly 40% of our day selling. “But I’m not a salesperson,” you may be thinking. Oh, yes you are. Whether it is an idea, a product, or yourself…you are selling. That is 24 seconds out of every minute, 24 minutes out of every hour, you are selling, and what you are selling is your ability to articulate, educate, enlighten, inspire, and engage.
Ladies and gentlemen, when you are on stage, you must remember that every presentation you deliver is an audition for the next presentation. I can’t begin to tell you how many people approached me after I delivered a speech to tell me they were interested in having me speak at a conference they are in charge of planning. If you are really, really, good, they will like you…and want to hear more from you!
What drives you to get up every day and give your talks? What is the main empowering message that you aim to share with the world?
My job, as I see it, is to know what the audience knows, and know it well. My job is to also know what they don’t know, and know that as well! That’s the hard part, but also the most rewarding. I’ve seen too many speakers get up on stage and deliver a presentation that doesn’t articulate any new information that I haven’t already read in a recent news story or seen delivered weeks before by someone else. Yes, I know our job as a speaker is to speak, but it is also to inform — to bring something new to the table, whether an idea or simply a different way of looking at things. The thing that drives me is when someone approaches me afterward and says, “You know that story you told about (fill in the blank), I didn’t know that!” I love to teach and I love it when the audience learns something new.
You have such impressive work. What are some of the most interesting or exciting projects you are working on now? Where do you see yourself heading from here?
I’ve been speaking professionally for over 30 years. I’ve delivered somewhere between 2,500 and 3,000 presentations in 12 different countries — and yes, all for a fee. In those years I have been to enough conferences that I have seen more than my share of speakers. Some good, many bad. Often, I want to approach them afterward and say to them, “Just talk to us like you were telling this story to your friends.”
Once I had the honor to speak on the same agenda with the pilot that flew Air Force One during the events of 9/11. He wasn’t just along for the ride — he was in the thick of it and his story is fascinating! A story many of us have never heard — one that should keep you on the edge of your seat. We became acquaintances and I was stunned to hear his speaking fee — it was half of what it should have been. The way he told it was good — it could have been great! For someone who is not a trained orator, the default is to tell the story in chronological order: This happened, and then this happened, then this, and then I went home. The end. For the novice, it makes sense. For the pro, it’s all wrong.
What would I like to do next? I would like to train speakers that have something to say — how to say it, how to deliver it, and how to move and use voice techniques so they engage the audience. Speaking publicly can be a great career and an amazing “rush” not only for the speaker but also for the audience — if done properly.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
As stated earlier, I use a lot of humor in my presentation. One of the reasons is that people will retain seven times more information if they are laughing while they are learning. Seven times! I want my presentation to be memorable, but I want to be memorable also. By doing so, when an audience member who heard me speak is talking to someone that wasn’t at their meeting, they don’t say, “I heard this guy speak at the conference,” but “I heard Mark Zinder speak at the conference… and he was really, really good!”
I will state it again: Be so good they have to like you. That is actually a derivative of a Steve Martin quote that goes, “Be so good they can’t ignore you.”
Ok, thank you for all that. Here is the main question of our interview. What are your “5 Things You Need To Be A Highly Effective Public Speaker?” Please share a story or example for each.
I’m going to start with the most important thing of all: setting the stage. And I’m speaking about the physical stage — setting the “stage” for your presentation. The lights, the sound, the volume on your wireless lavalier microphone. If you are speaking at a large conference, you might have less control, but I can’t emphasize enough about taking as much control as you can. Let me first start with audio/visual. I’ve done thousands of presentations and if there is going to be a problem while you are on stage — it’s going to be with A/V. I now have it in my contract that I will be using my laptop. This is non-negotiable. There have been too many times that their equipment simply stopped working, or the PowerPoint deck that I sent them has gotten discombobulated. Or maybe you gave them a thumb drive at the actual event, the morning of. Nope. I have experienced that not working either because whatever typeface I am using is not a typeface they have on the computer, so the titles on my slides are in gibberish. I travel with a laptop that I use exclusively for delivering my presentation. I keep it clean. That way, if there is a problem with my computer (and there never has been) then it is my fault. Also remember to pack all the necessary adapters, extension cords, clickers, etc. Next, do a sound check beforehand. The A/V group thinks they know your voice level (we will discuss this later) but the speaker before you probably had a softer voice so they have the sound turned way up. I can’t tell you how many times I have had to move the lavalier mike down my tie because the volume is too loud. Lastly, the lights. Again, not being a speaker, the person in charge of the lighting thinks it’s a good idea to turn the lights down so the audience can see the slides better. If you want to guarantee that the audience will be napping during your presentation they slated you to deliver after lunch or at the end of the day, then turn the lights down. Otherwise, ask that the lights be brought up to 75% house. 100% house would be all the way up. Turn them down, but just a little. Remember, the focus should be on you, not the slides. I have designed my PowerPoint slides to present themselves well in a brightly lit room. Lastly, the people “manning” the A/V booth will tell you they are professionals and not to worry. However, they are not the ones on stage — you are. Take control and don’t worry about hurting their feelings.
There are too many examples of things going awry, but the one that disappointed me the most was the time I was speaking to over 10,000 people in Bangkok, Thailand. Numerous screens hung from the rafters above because the people employed to video the event were also delivering it live so the people towards the back of the hall could see the speaker. The very first acting class I took was called Stage Movement — the professor taught us how to use a stage. “Imagine you are in a box,” he said. If you are on a big stage, then you are in a big box and exaggerate your movements. Small stage, small box, keep your arm movements close to your body and your movements across the stage smaller. This was going to be a big stage and I was going to use every bit of it. I was talking to the director and giving him the lowdown of what I would be doing and how I would be moving, and he said to me, “We’ve got this — we do the Academy Awards every year. Don’t you worry.” I was thinking that the video clips of me speaking in front of 10,000 would be great for my “Promo Reel.” “Ok,” I thought, “The Academy Awards.” I was duly impressed. Less so when I finally received the video. It was junk. Not at all usable. None of it. I was so disappointed.
The lesson learned: you are in control. Take charge. It’s about you and the audience, not about the feelings of a couple of people running the A/V.
2. Begin at the end. Tell them what you are going to tell them — not in its entirety but give them a hint of what to expect. Then take them on a journey and when you get to the end, you get to finish the story that you started, completing the circle. I once heard Annie Leibovitz speak. She was on stage for over an hour showing many of her now famous photographs and telling the story behind each of them. She ended with what I think is one of her most famous of all, the picture of John Lennon and Yoko Ono. John Lennon, unclothed in a fetal position, nestling his wife. We all remember that photograph. What I didn’t recall was that picture was taken just hours before he was shot outside his home in New York. Personally, I would have started with that photograph and told a story or two about how there were earlier photographs of Paul and Yoko, not taken by her, in bed, protesting the war (setting the stage). And then how she had taken this iconic picture that later graced the cover of Rolling Stone Magazine. I would have then continued on my presentation and at the end, bring that photograph up again and explain why it was so important and what had transpired right after it was taken. Here was a man who had publicly protested the senseless killings of others and then later that day, after taking this now famous picture, he too was part of a senseless murder. End there. Leave the audience awestruck. Complete the circle. The audience would know that you were ending your remarks. Accept your applause, take your bow and then open it up to questions.
3. People tend to speak softer when they get on stage — I can only imagine it is because they are nervous. When I am training speakers, one of the first things I do is to draw five hash marks on a piece of paper. The top hash mark represents “yelling.” The bottom one is “whispering.” The one in the middle is the level at which we talk. Here’s the problem; when unseasoned speakers get on stage, they tend to take it down a notch below average. No! What you need to do is to take it a notch above average. This is where you are speaking louder, but not yelling. At this level, you are speaking with enthusiasm and the benefit of speaking with enthusiasm is that enthusiasm is contagious! Be enthusiastic about what you are telling the audience and the audience will become enthusiastic as well.
I call the period after I speak “kissing the babies.” This is when people stand in line to either ask a question or compliment me on the delivery of the speech. Nine times out of ten, if they are complimenting me, they refer to my enthusiasm.
4. Mark Twain once said, “The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read.” Reading is where you will get a lot of facts, but it is also a great source for great stories. I used to go to a bookstore, gather a half dozen nonfiction books, get a latte, find a big comfy chair, and read the first four of five chapters of the selected books. Sometimes, additional stories come later, but I promise, there are going to be a couple of good stories in there. I speak on finance and economics — a rather dry topic, and the books on these topics can also be dry and uninteresting. However, the author, encouraging you to read on, will include a story that will illustrate what he or she is trying to teach. Today, I have substituted Amazon for the bookstore, which will allow you to read about 50 pages before they want you to purchase the book. Libraries are also a great source, absent the latte and big comfy chair.
I was reading a book called The History of Money. Towards the end of the book was an amazing story that I continue to share to this day. It was the story about the Wizard of Oz. A story we are all familiar with, but few people know that it is actually a story about monetary policy! Oz, as we know, is the abbreviation for ounces, like an ounce of gold or an ounce of silver. “Follow the yellow-brick road” — the golden road paved to the Emerald City — Washington, DC, where the dollar (or greenback) was printed. Dorothy was an activist out of Kansas City; her real name was Leslie Kelsey, but her nickname was “The Kansas Tornado.” The Tin Man was the American industrialist, the Scarecrow represented the American farmer, the “winged monkeys” were the American Indians, and the “munchkins” were the little people — the U.S. population. In the book, Dorothy’s slippers are made of silver, but because the movie was produced in 1939, and technicolor had been introduced just four years prior, they decided to make her slippers ruby red! Ladies and gentlemen, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz, the book published in 1900, is not a children’s story, but a commentary on what was unfolding in the late 1890s when William Jennings Bryan was running for President and was proposing the United States get off the gold standard and go on a bi-metal standard — gold and silver!
Facts tell, but stories sell!
5. If you are a speaker that doesn’t have a particular story — landing a plane on the Hudson River or flying the President during 9/11 — then always, always, always be writing new material. Always. And here is some advice: don’t try out your entire new speech all at once. When delivering your older speech, slowly add some of your new material into it — just kind of slide it in. Try it out. Keep using it until it is polished. Then remove it and set it aside. Add something new, try it out, polish it up, then set it aside. Nothing is worse than trying out new material all at once without ever rehearsing it in front of a live audience and then dying on stage. Well, wars, racism, apartheid — all those things are much worse, but you get my point, right?
Recently, my agent called, and he was trying to convince his client to bring me back. They had hired me ten years ago and their initial response was, “We’ve already heard him.” “Yes, but that was ten years ago,” he said. “Yes, it’s the same person but with different material. You loved him then you will love him again now!” They booked the gig. Always, always, always be working on new material!
As you know, many people are terrified of speaking in public. Can you give some of your advice about how to overcome this fear?
Jerry Seinfeld can put things in perspective like no other. He once asked the audience if they knew that public speaking was the number one fear in America. Most everyone knew it. He went on to share, adding some perspective, that the fear of dying was number two. NUMBER TWO! Which, according to Seinfeld, meant that if you are going to a funeral tomorrow, you would rather be in the casket than delivering the eulogy!
Earlier, I spoke about performing in a high school play. It is now night two, Friday night. It is five minutes before showtime. After the lights go down and the curtain goes up, I am the first actor to walk out on stage. The director, Karen York, approached me and asked if I was ready. I said to her, “I’m so nervous.” She then explained to me that what was causing my nervousness was the same thing that causes excitement — my adrenalin was in high gear. She told me that I had to rephrase my statement and not think, “I’m so nervous,” but rather, “I’m so excited.” It is self-fulfilling, she said. She went on to remind me of the standing ovation I had received the night before. She said, “close your eyes and relive that moment — how it made you feel — how excited you were for hours afterward. Now, when the curtain goes up, step on that stage with that feeling, and then go do it again!”
The best advice I ever received.
You see, we are climbing a metaphorical ladder. Many of us get about halfway up and we think to ourselves, “Yes, this is good enough…I think I’ll just stay right here on this rung — this is where I am most comfortable.” Aren’t you curious about what’s up near the top rung? One step, two steps, three steps higher. My advice: Your curiosity has got to be one degree greater than your fear!
You are a person of huge influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be?
Can we stop lying already! News anchors, politicians, and heads of state should be above this angle for winning approval. This may come as a surprise to many but Frank Abagnale, the man portrayed by Leonardo DiCaprio in the movie, Catch Me If You Can — it’s all a lie. He never impersonated those professionals — the pilot, the attorney general, the doctor, the professor. He didn’t do it. How do I know? Because I was once a speaker’s agent myself and he was one of the speakers I represented. I then went to work for him, promoting his speeches. That is until I discovered he was a fraud. One threat and 40 years later, the actual truth is beginning to surface. I have learned that it is easier to con someone than it is to convince them they have been conned. If you believe his story — you’ve been conned!
One of my favorite quotes is from Mark Twain who said, “If you tell the truth, you don’t have to remember anything.”
If I could influence a movement, it would be one where the truth was always told, versus saying anything to get better ratings, get elected, or become famous or wealthy.
Is there a person in the world whom you would love to have lunch with, and why? Maybe we can tag them and see what happens!
Mike Birbiglia. If you are unfamiliar with his name or his work, I encourage you to go to either Netflix or Amazon and stream one of his many shows tonight. I suggest watching “My Girlfriend’s Boyfriend” first. Then watch it again but this time pay closer attention to his delivery- how he starts with where he is going to end, and how he uses voice inflection for effect and impact. Watch how he uses the stage. Watch how he talks to the audience rather than at the audience. He is a master of his craft there is no one better at delivering a story.
Are you on social media? How can our readers follow you online?
Readers can find me on LinkedIn or through my website, MarkZinder.com
This was so informative, thank you so much! We wish you continued success!
Thank you for the opportunity. I do want to close with one more piece of advice; BE SO GOOD THEY HAVE TO LIKE YOU!
Makers of The Metaverse: Josie Darling Of Synodic Arc On The Future Of The VR, AR & Mixed Reality Industries
An Interview With Fotis Georgiadis
Passion — there will be hard work and long nights. Make sure that whatever project you dream up, you believe in it and you’re passionate about it. Involve your team in key decisions so that they can be passionate too.
The Virtual Reality, Augmented Reality & Mixed Reality Industries are so exciting. What is coming around the corner? How will these improve our lives? What are the concerns we should keep an eye out for? Aside from entertainment, how can VR or AR help work or other parts of life? To address this, we had the pleasure of interviewingJosie Darling, Head of Operations at Synodic Arc.
As the only business major in a room full of artists, Josie knows a thing or two about herding cats. Accounting, human resources, and enforcing deadlines are a few of the ways she helps bring the Synodic Arc ideas to the finish line. Originally from Chicago, she currently lives in Seattle, Washington.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we dig in, our readers would like to get to know you a bit. Can you tell us a bit about your backstory and how you grew up?
Thank you for having me! Let’s see, where to start. I’m originally from Chicago, Illinois, and I grew up with eight siblings. My parents are separated and remarried so depending on where you cut it, I can be the oldest, middle, or baby. I would say my love of video games comes from my big family. One of my brothers, Christopher, is seven years older than me and would always give me a controller that wasn’t plugged in so I could feel like I was playing along without messing his game up. I remember doing the same thing to one of my younger brothers later!
Is there a particular book, film, or podcast that made a significant impact on you? Can you share a story or explain why it resonated with you so much?
Oh, gosh, I would have to say Ender’s Game by Orson Scott Card. In the book, Ender is this isolated child who’s taken away from his family because of his great military potential. Throughout the book he has so much heart and empathy for those around him, but he’s being manipulated by forces he can’t possibly understand. The ending is such a twist that even now, on my seventh or eighth read through, it still makes me emotional! I love a character who still cares about others despite all odds.
Is there a particular story that inspired you to pursue a career in the X Reality industry? We’d love to hear it.
I think more than one particular story, what drives me in this industry is the unlimited challenge. There’s so much potential, so much uncovered ground that it makes every day exciting. When I hear about successes from our programmers, it feels like they’re doing things no one has ever done before. I couldn’t be more proud of them and that ability to trailblaze makes this industry so addicting.
Can you share the most interesting story that happened to you since you began this fascinating career?
You know, I think all my best stories are still covered by NDA! I’ve gotten to shake hands with some very influential people since we started this journey and I’m always fascinated by the doors it opens. I’ve been in meetings with investment bankers and biotech engineers who are more interested in what I’m working on than talking about themselves. I was meeting with a scientist who had more PhDs than I could shake a stick at, and all he wanted to know was what we were working on next.
Can you share a story about the funniest mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?
First of all- I think everyone in this industry shares the same funniest mistake. If you claim you haven’t slammed your knee into your coffee table while wearing your headset, I’m calling you out! Testing your game or program can be so rewarding that sometimes it’s hard to step away and get back to the computer. Sometimes it feels like hours and hours of coding go into getting one tiny feature to function. Don’t lose sight of the big picture; you’re still making progress!
None of us are able to achieve success without some help along the way. Is there a particular person who you are grateful towards who helped get you to where you are? Can you share a story about that?
Of course I’d have to say the founder of Synodic Arc, Michael Pulis. He is one of the best bosses I’ve been able to work under. He is so thoughtful, intentional, and he takes your advice seriously. Everything we do is collaborative. He’s got this great drive and ambition but he knows that I’m keeping an eye on the business so he doesn’t have to. He told me that before he makes big purchases, he thinks about if I’ll approve the business expense. If he can’t justify to me, he can’t justify it for the business! It’s a good check and balance system.
Are you working on any exciting new projects now? How do you think that will help people?
I am, I am! We have a few different projects in the pipeline. We’re preparing for our game launch this holiday season and I think it’s going to take people by surprise. I truly believe it’s going to open people’s eyes to the possibilities of AR and MR technology in the video game industry. We’re going to be right on the forefront of a new movement and people will see things differently after this.
Ok super. Thank you for all that. Let’s now shift to the main focus of our interview. The VR, AR and MR industries seem so exciting right now. What are the 3 things in particular that most excite you about the industry? Can you explain or give an example?
As I mentioned before, the most exciting thing about the industry is the potential. You can sit down for five minutes and think of twenty new games that would be so fun to play. Number two would be connectivity. Just imagine having a mixed reality experience that you and your friend can have at the same time in your living room. You can go on an entire adventure together without leaving your house. Lastly, I’m excited about applications outside of games, especially for hospitals and hospice. What if a patient could take that trip to Italy they always wanted, right in their hospital room?
What are the 3 things that concern you about the VR, AR and MR industries? Can you explain? What can be done to address those concerns?
Funding. We know it, the whole industry knows it. You can’t undertake such revolutionary technology without having investments. And it could be a long time before those really pay off! This is a long game, not a quick buck. We’re developing the future.
To go along with that, I would say public perception. I think there’s still a dystopian element to VR that some of the public has, and we need to be honest about it and address it. Publications like yours go a long way in helping us bridge that gap.
Last- but not least! — COMFORT! We have got to get those headsets more comfortable for long term wear. People come in all shapes and sizes, some wear glasses, like my younger brother. If people can’t wear the headset for more than thirty minutes, it’s going to continue to be a barrier. It’s a big challenge for hardware developers but they are constantly improving with each new console.
I think the entertainment aspects of VR, AR and MR are apparent. Can you share with our readers how these industries can help us at work?
I’m actually friends with someone whose bosses gave her a VR headset for her lunch break. They would play beach scenery with seagulls and waves. I think we haven’t even begun to think about the work applications for this technology. Data visualization comes to mind. I’d love to really get in there with a 3D graph. Start walking around my data sets, pulling out and expanding points. That might be a little nerdy.
Are there other ways that VR, AR and MR can improve our lives? Can you explain?
I’d like to explore more into the hospital and hospice idea I mentioned earlier. I think here is where we can really improve lives. They say that your mentality plays such a huge role in your recovery and even your success in surgery. VR can take someone anywhere in the world and put them in a better state of mind. Imagine someone learning to walk again, and instead of staring down a bleak hospital hallway, they’re using mixed reality to see milestones, or points, or cute little bunnies. I believe this is coming, and I believe it will improve lives.
What are the “myths” that you would like to dispel about working in your industry? Can you explain what you mean?
Any preconceived notions about what it’s like to work in the industry should be thrown away. We are still so early, in the grand scheme of things. You can make whatever path you want, as long as you really want it. If you think it’s too hard, or too expensive, or no one will care about VR then you will manifest those things to be true. The only way to understand this work is to jump in and see for yourself.
What are your “5 Things You Need To Create A Highly Successful Career In The VR, AR or MR Industries?”
A good team — you can’t do it all. Don’t overwhelm yourself with so many tasks that you burn out immediately. Surround yourself with people who can help you.
Passion — there will be hard work and long nights. Make sure that whatever project you dream up, you believe in it and you’re passionate about it. Involve your team in key decisions so that they can be passionate too.
Hard deadlines — this technology is evolving at such a rapid pace, you can get swept up in thinking ‘oh, if we wait for one more update, we can include X’. Three or four of those and you’re way past scope and way past budget. Decide your end point and stick to it!
Patience — VR, AR and MR takes a lot of trial and error. There aren’t as many boards you can go to and Google your way out of a problem. There will be times you have to try and try again. This is where patience, level-headedness, and calmness can see you through the other side of a problem.
A good mentor — this applies to everyone, but I really believe it! It doesn’t even have to be someone in the industry, it just has to be someone whose opinion you respect, who has experience to share with you, and can be a sounding board for ideas. It’s like your rubber ducky but for business ideas instead of coding.
You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. 🙂
Wow, thank you! For me, personally, especially in our industry, we need to take a stand against crunch culture. We cannot continue to treat our teams as disposable, burn them out as quickly as possible and move on to the next one. Your team is everything, and they deserve to go home and see their families! If it can’t get done this sprint, then we move it to the next one and learn better for next time how long that task takes. We have to get rid of the idea that people are just so lucky to work in this industry that they should sacrifice their mental and physical wellbeing and be grateful for it. Happier employees are more productive, more creative, and will respect you for respecting them.
We are very blessed that very prominent leaders read this column. Is there a person in the world, or in the US with whom you would like to have a private breakfast or lunch, and why? He or she might just see this if we tag them 🙂
That’s something of an intimidating thought. She really might be reading this! If I could, I would want to meet Sofia Chang, the CEO of the Girl Scouts of America. I’m a lifelong Girl Scout, and I attribute so much of my success to the skills I learned through them. I’d love to meet her and hear her life experiences and how she handles the pressure of being at the top and having the future of so many girls under her direction. That would be such a dream for me.
Thank you so much for these excellent stories and insights. We wish you continued success in your great work!
Thank you for having me! It’s been a pleasure. You can check out our games at www.SynodicArc.com/games.
The Future Is Now: Melinda Lee Of Stage TEN Media Networks On How Their Technological Innovation Will Shake Up E-Commerce
An Interview With Fotis Georgiadis
Recognize your abilities and be confident in them. It’s part of you and who you are.
After you’ve gotten through stressful periods at work, over and over again, realize that even if you’ve never done that exact thing before, you can figure it out. When you realize that you have that ability, you know you’ll get through it — like you have so many times before.
As a part of our series about cutting-edge technological breakthroughs, I had the pleasure of interviewingMelinda Lee, President of Stage TEN Media Networks.
As President of Stage TEN’s media network, she leads its media division which includes business and editorial operations, studios and content production units, and is growing the live interactive content network by launching new content formats, partnerships and business models.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we dive in, our readers would love to learn a bit about you. Can you tell us a story about what brought you to this specific career path?
My parents immigrated with my sister to the United States from Taiwan. When I was younger, I didn’t have many Asian female role models besides my older sister and mom. I learned English from TV, and Connie Chung was a trailblazer for me. She was a successful Asian woman that I could see, and because I could see her, I could dream of growing up to be like her. My problem was that I didn’t know anyone at all who was in media nor did I have “friends of a friend” who could introduce me to anyone that was even adjacent to that world. My parents, out of fear and love for me and my future, pressed upon me that I did not have a chance in media. My parents dreamed of me going into medicine, law, or engineering to have a better life. Reflecting on this time of my life, it saddens me that career paths were narrowed down to just 3 areas. But, I think it’s a common story for parents of first-generation Americans who have hopes of their children experiencing the American Dream. My parents were so brave and sacrificed a life they knew for me and my sister and I am forever thankful that they made the decision to come here.
Wanting to please my parents, I went into law but ultimately left after only a few years. However, in my short stint as an attorney, I was so lucky to clerk for Judge Anne McDonnell. In my career, I have been fortunate to work for quite a few female trailblazers and she made an incredible early first impression on me. While I don’t identify with being an attorney anymore, the experience taught me new ways of thinking and set the foundation for where my career has led me.
I’ve had an unpredictable path to get to where I am today. My first career change was leaving law to go work for MTV Networks as a freelancer. A friend helped me do a very nerdy analysis on comparing the pay cut with the value of an upward trajectory in a field I wanted to be in, then we added a happiness multiplier to the calculus, and the risk/reward calculus worked out for me to take the leap. This was my first media role where I learned about music and content rights, international businesses, and launched new media initiatives. I affectionately term this period of my career my ‘career college’. After that, I moved into the business of creative and content in the tech start-up space, started my own company, and then went back to legacy media companies, but this time with a twist — I found myself getting hired for new divisions that needed to be built up and grow quickly. I set up digital businesses for publishers when they were transforming from print to digital, and I also led initiatives for digital video studios when publishers ‘pivoted to video’. I eventually ended up at BuzzFeed and led their content initiatives and strategies for their brands. Side note: BuzzFeed’s culture reminded me so much of MTV’s culture back when I first started. It felt like I had circled the globe and came back home with lots of traveler’s tales to share. And now, I’m at Stage TEN where I get to combine my experiences in media, tech, content, and launching new initiatives into the world.
Can you share the most interesting story that happened to you since you began your career?
Every new role gives me a new ‘most interesting story’. I get to work on launch initiatives where we need to show quick but real growth in new areas. These are exciting and intense situations that are defined by the people working on the project so it’s a unique experience every time. Most teams are a combo of exceptional people, solid good contributors and not so exceptional people to varying degrees. The interesting stories originate in the dynamics of people’s wok styles during the goal alignment process across the organization.
I have too many stories, but a recent one is that a few other Melinda Lee’s in the world have reached out to me to connect on career and business advice on Linkedin. Not to get too meta on this, but these other Melinda Lee’s are doing some really great work in sectors like health and sustainability. I’m actually on the board of advisors for Parcel Health, which was co-founded by their CEO, Melinda (Su En) Lee. These other Melinda Lee’s are interesting and inspirational in their own right.
Can you tell us about the cutting-edge technological breakthroughs that you are working on? How do you think that will help people?
My team and I develop new content formats with Stage TEN’s technology — we create interactive and shoppable live streams. Stage TEN’s breakthrough is our low latency live stream technology that makes it easy to create, distribute and make live streams interactive and shoppable. It lowers the barriers to entry so that anyone who has access to a phone or computer can create a live stream and connect with their audience or community. Our technology enables people to distribute their live streams to not only their social media platforms but also to their own websites so they can own their audiences and generate income. Anyone can make a great idea into a live stream and immediately connect with their audience from anywhere.
Technologies oftentimes marginalize underrepresented groups because access is more difficult and there is a vicious cycle where people then don’t see themselves represented in emerging content formats. And we all know that you can’t be what you can’t see. We know that it’s normal to see diversity in life and we are committed to reflecting this in our content.
How do you think this might change the world?
We have created a whole new way for people to experience commerce. The definition of commerce will even expand beyond shopping and encompass all value exchanges. When we look at content coming from APAC countries that entertain and delight audiences with shoppable live streams, we see how they can connect communities and provide a shared experience with opportunities for value exchanges. The more accessible and inclusive content is created and then distributed across many platforms- social media platforms, creators’ own sites- the more possibilities for new worlds to emerge and new ways to exchange values.
Keeping “Black Mirror” in mind, can you see any potential drawbacks of this technology that people should think more deeply about?
Content really has the power to influence and inspire people to act. Content creators have a responsibility because they have the power to influence the world in good and bad ways. Content has its consequences and technology allows one to customize their consumption of it. Having defined brand values, and commitment to moderation practices — not just from the brands, but from the community and technologists — is an important practice. We’ve seen so many horrible unintended consequences of ad models that rewards massive scale and attention — we need to learn from this.
What do you need to lead this technology to widespread adoption?
Now that live streaming is no longer a trend and is now part of a balanced content strategy, audiences are realizing that interacting with the live streamer is more than just commenting. Now they are exchanging things that have value credits, donations, gifts, etc. This value exchange mindset is already there for Gen Z, gamers, and Gen Alpha. These are communities that will lead widespread adoption.
What have you been doing to publicize this idea? Have you been using any innovative marketing strategies?
Stage TEN has over 200K users and the well-known creators and personalities that use our creator tools bring their followers to experience the real time interactivity on our player. So there is an organic marketing strategy just by using our Pro and Mobile Studios.
We wanted to reach a broader audience of creatives so we went right to the source — VidCon 2022. We met with creators firsthand from all over the world and took them live using our Mobile Studio app. They were able to interact, play games with the audience live and experienced the power of Stage TEN for themselves. While at VidCon, we also partnered with The Phluid Project, a brand built on creating gender-free clothing and accessories to sell their products live.
We brought our technology to creators in their true environment so they could see themselves in the live commerce space while doing what they do best- creating content. The Mobile Studio app spoke for itself after that.
None of us are able to achieve success without some help along the way. Is there a particular person who you are grateful towards who helped get you to where you are? Can you share a story about that?
I don’t even know where to start on how many people have helped me along the way. Each and every person who has worked on one of my teams has helped me get to where I am today. I’m so grateful for my mentors early on in my career who I met at MTV Networks, my former boss at Meredith (DotDash), and investors/business partners from my media company, ZenCat Productions. All these amazing people generously gave me their time, advice, and feedback on how I could be better at what I do.
A moment that stands out is when I was looking to leave law and find my way into the entertainment industry. I didn’t have access to anyone in media, but it was my dream (not my parents). I was an early adopter and signed up for AOL when it was still dial-up. I lived in entertainment and TV chat rooms looking for anyone who was in the industry that I could connect with. They had a directory where you could look up other AOL members and I did a search for entertainment executives and 5 people popped up! I wrote all 5, and miraculously 3 people responded. 1 of those 3 was an attorney who worked at Nickelodeon. After a few months of correspondence and answering my many, many questions, he agreed to meet me and told me about a freelance position at my dream company — MTV Networks. I took the leap and left my gig as an attorney for a freelance role in the rights and clearance department for a VH1 show called “Rockstory.” The show was canceled a month later and I found myself without a job. Luckily, I had made enough of an impression and they offered me a staff role on a different project. Even though I was making even less than what I made as a freelancer, it was the start of my career in the industry and a dream come true. Thank you, Keith (“Zurcheke”), for being an ally to someone like me.
I try to remember to say thank you to all my mentors (many are now my dear friends), but I’m not sure I’ll ever be able to give them their due. Once someone on my team asked me how I keep going — especially when we are launching new initiative after new initiative — and I realized that much of my drive to keep going and to be the best version of myself comes from wanting to pay all this wonderful goodwill forward to others. There is also a big part of me that never wants to let those mentors and sponsors who believed in me down.
How have you used your success to bring goodness to the world?
I’m not sure I’m a person that could really tell you that. I operate off of the following values — try to be kind and elevate those who lead with kindness to others, treat others with respect for who they are, promote empathy, look for and reward humble excellence, acknowledge and honor those who have been generous and helpful to you in the past, seek feedback on how to be better, pay it forward to people that share similar values. Hopefully, these values bring goodness into the world.
What are your “5 Things I Wish Someone Told Me Before I Started” and why?
Your brain is not fully done developing until your late 20s.
This explains so much of the decision paralysis I had when I was in my 20s. I used to feel like some decisions were life or death when it came to my career. Now I see the same behavior in mentees of mine who are around the same age I was. Time and self-assessment are keys to developing into someone you can be proud of. And time is the one thing you can’t turn back and you can’t rush.
2. Sometimes the “right” decision is the only outcome.
This is related to the point above. When it comes to career choices, sometimes we feel like we have to choose wisely or else our lives are ruined. But if you step back and really reflect, you might actually see that either decision is the right one. Nothing irreversible will happen if you choose either decision. You will be learning new things and have yet another experience to draw from so don’t agonize over making the “right” decision when you don’t need to.
3. Recognize your abilities and be confident in them. It’s part of you and who you are.
After you’ve gotten through stressful periods at work, over and over again, realize that even if you’ve never done that exact thing before, you can figure it out. When you realize that you have that ability, you know you’ll get through it — like you have so many times before.
4. The system is set up to reward those with privilege.
Even though I knew I was a minority, I didn’t understand how much harder I needed to work to get to the same place as more privileged folks. I believed that the workplace was a meritocracy and I learned this isn’t always the case. So I created a toolkit to strategize, build resilience, develop wisdom (hopefully), and watch and listen to others. This allowed me to be more effective in the workplace and also be a better version of myself. It’s important that if you manage others in the workplace, empower those who don’t benefit from inherited privilege. We can change the system for the better.
5. You can make your future self proud of yourself now.
We are all works in progress. But if you can imagine the version of you looking back at yourself now, would you be proud of the choices and actions you are taking now? We can’t see the future, but I’ve found this framework helpful in guiding me towards making decisions and being the person I strive to be.
You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger.
Inspiration can come from anyone. I often find myself in conversations about measuring our content with a goodness metric and wishing that a goodness app existed — where ethical decisions, concern for moral consequences, care for the well-being of the community and individual rights, empathic actions, and equity are all factored into the algorithm developed. Technology and algorithms could weigh moral decisions, human dignity, ethics, empathy, and equity above factors like shock, hatred, outrage, and disgust. Ethics would be designed into the platform and place that generates good content, shared communal ethics and meaningful value exchanges could result.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
“I’ve learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel.” — Maya Angelou
Facilitators have used this quote as a north star in offsites we’ve created in the past. It’s a great foundational statement for how a company culture should be built. Yes, goals and outcomes are important but how you achieve them is even more important. Treating people and their experiences with respect goes a long way in aligning incentives and just makes for a more positive journey to experience together.
Beyond work experiences, this quote has meant a lot to me personally as well. My mom passed away recently and for the last 10 years of her life, she suffered from dementia. My mom and I had a daily routine for at least 15 years where I’d call her every morning (before work) and night (after work) so she could keep track of the time of day. Through the years, my mom gradually wouldn’t remember that I had called her the day before. Eventually, she’d forget that I had called her at all. But she was always happy when I called because she felt like she hadn’t spoken to me in a long while. Every time I called, her mood would change to happiness and she’d ask me the same questions over and over again with the same excitement each time. She forgot what my answers were but what was consistent was her happiness and excitement. I don’t think my mom ever forgot the feeling that she experienced during our previous calls and it helped her quickly jump into a happy mood. As time passes without her here, I’m left with a finite set of memories of my mom. As much as I try, I don’t fully remember the questions that she asked me over and over again or my answers but, one thing I will never forget is how her happiness on these calls made me feel, which was and still is great. Thanks for this unforgettable gift, Mom.
Thank you so much for joining us. This was very inspirational.
I can’t stress how important it is to know your audience. You must know who you’re talking to and tailor your message accordingly. Otherwise, your message — and you — becomes irrelevant, awkward, uninteresting, or aggravating. And on that last one, unless you mean to be a provocateur in your public speaking, try to avoid audiences that are clearly going to be aggravated with your worldview. It will save you from a life of negativity.
At some point in our lives, many of us will have to give a talk to a large group of people. What does it take to be a highly effective public speaker? How can you improve your public speaking skills? How can you overcome a fear of speaking in public? What does it take to give a very interesting and engaging public talk? In this interview series called “5 Things You Need To Be A Highly Effective Public Speaker” we are talking to successful and effective public speakers to share insights and stories from their experience. As a part of this series, we had the pleasure of interviewing Michael Stickler.
Michael Stickler is the author of four best-selling books and a respected professional speaker. He is also the CEO of LeadershipBooks.com, a publishing company dedicated to coaching non-fiction authors from concept to completion and guiding experienced authors to higher book sales and financial success.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Our readers would love to get to know you a bit better. Can you tell us the story of how you grew up?
One unique thing about my life is that I grew up on an island off the coast of California called Catalina Island. It was in the 1960s when my mom and dad moved our family there. My dad was a lobster fisherman and a taxi driver. And my mom did a whole bunch of things to help make ends meet. So, I too became an entrepreneur at a very early age and discovered ways I could make money. I dove for coins, hauled tourist’s luggage in my wagon, swept up the local A&W, and retrieved shopping carts from around town for 25 cents each.
One of my early entrepreneurial gigs during the wintertime was to collect rocks from Moonstone Beach, which was three coves away from Avalon, the only little town on the island. aI’d pick the prettiest ones, polish them up, and then make them into jewelry. Then during the summer I’d approach one lady after another and talk them into buying them. What I learned from that experience was all businesses begin and end with people. So, you must be a great listener. You need to understand how people think. And whether it’s a sales transaction or a management process, you should only move people forward in increments, not in giant swaths of change.
Can you share a story with us about what brought you to this specific career path?
I was a pastor for 19 years, so I had lots of practice as a professional speaker. And what is so unique about being a pastor is that you must come up with a unique and inspiring message each and every Sunday. Now this differs vastly from how a motivational speaker, or a keynote speaker operates. They usually develop about five messages and then deliver one of them based on what they’re hired to deliver. They make some changes to them to be unique to the audience, but they get so much practice delivering those same five messages, they know when people are going to laugh, cry or sigh.
The really good professional speaker can shrink or stretch any one of those five messages according to the circumstances. So that means you need to have enough content for anywhere from a few minutes to a few hours. That way you are covered whether you are doing a five-hour coaching and training session, a 20-to-50-minute keynote address, or a two-minute elevator speech. And it’s like any other skill, the more you practice it the better you get. So, I credit all my training in the pulpit for helping me perfect the ability to speak in a precise manner in the time allowed.
Can you tell us the most interesting story that happened to you since you began your career?
Here’s a story that I found interesting. I was at the airport leaving a city where I had been doing some speaking. There was a couple right behind me in the ticket line who told me they had heard me speak and wanted to thank me. They went on to say complimentary things and then asked me how they might develop some of ideas I’d discussed. When we parted ways, I was still in the line and a woman who had overheard our conversation asked, “Hey, are you famous or something? Am I supposed to know you?”
I got a chuckle out of her question because I don’t think of myself as famous. But the more I thought about it, the more it made me realize the incredible dynamic between a speaker and each member of the audience. And as I repeatedly teach the authors and speakers I coach; it underscores the vital importance of being sensitive to your audience. Here’s what I mean by that.
If you are standing on stage speaking to a big group of people, you might only see five rows out because of the blinding stage lights. But you know what? You are building a relationship with everyone in the room. And that relationship must be managed. It must be valued. It must be shepherded. Because even if the people are all the way in the back row behind a pole, they’ve developed a relationship with you, and you must be sensitive to knowing you have that with them.
What’s different about speaking versus acting is that when you’re acting, you’re pretending to be someone else. But when you’re speaking, you’re being authentic. You’re being who you are. You’re being real. And people, unseen and unknown by you, are identifying themselves as being in a relationship with you. So, you must be mindful to treat that relationship with courtesy and respect.
The same principles discussed for your audience apply to your readers if you are an author. They believe they know you and therefore believe in what you say. So, whether the message comes from the page or over the auditorium speakers, you should never be divisive and you should always be genuine. Because if you are one thing in print or onstage and another thing at home, people will find out. They always find out. And they will be very disillusioned with you and prone to discard all the good advice you’ve shared.
Can you share a story about the funniest mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?
The lesson I learned was always turn your microphone off when you’re not on stage. Even if you have the greatest people in the sound booth. Now, we’ve all heard the story of the guy who goes in the bathroom and he’s standing at the urinal and the entire audience is listening to the process. Well fortunately, that’s never happened to me. But I did engage in conversation that was not what the whole audience wanted to hear because I didn’t turn off my microphone. It was with my late wife who was busily trying to help me get the microphone wires tucked into my pants. And she said something kind of cute that only wives would say to their husbands, and the whole audience got to hear it. It wasn’t crude or vulgar. It was cute and appropriate. However, it still it wasn’t something I wanted a couple hundred people to hear. So, I’m guessing my face was just a little red when went out on the stage and apologized to everybody. Fortunately, it was a great — and understanding — crowd because we all laughed about it.
None of us are able to achieve success without some help along the way. Is there a particular person who you are grateful towards who helped get you to where you are? Can you share a story about that?
I’ve been blessed to have several mentors and they have all played different roles in my life. But the one who gave me a strong understanding of how worldview works in each of our psyche was Chuck Colson. If that name sounds familiar it is because Chuck Colson was involved in the Watergate scandal with President Nixon. In 1974 he voluntarily pled guilty to obstruction of justice and served seven months in Alabama’s Maxwell Prison. And as he wrote in his best-selling memoir, Born Again, he was drawn to the idea that God had put him in prison so he would see that he needed to do something for those he had left behind.
Later in his life he started a program called the Colson Worldview Center. And it was there that I met and was mentored by Chuck Colson and eventually went to work for him. It was that experience that helped me understand about worldview and why people make decisions based on how they see the world. This one tool revolutionized my speaking and writing career.
You have been blessed with great success in a career path that can be challenging and intimidating. Do you have any words of advice for others who may want to embark on this career path, but seem daunted by the prospect of failure?
Well, I’ve been an entrepreneur most of my life and I can tell you that failure is simply part of the process. And any entrepreneur who tells you they have never failed is not telling the truth or they’re currently in the process of failing and they don’t realize it. I remember my dad telling me that most successes come after a string of five failures. So, you can’t let failure be is directly related to your identity. You must simply view it as an important part of the process of becoming successful. Because sometimes failure is due to outside circumstances beyond your control, like the guy who has a thriving charter fishing business in the Caribbean and a hurricane comes along and wipes him out. That wasn’t his fault. So, I just think the way to overcome failure is to learn from it and move on, and don’t ever let it be tied to your identity.
What drives you to get up every day and give your talks? What is the main empowering message that you aim to share with the world?
What I primarily like to speak about is generosity. Whether it’s an entire message or just a portion of it, the lifechanging importance of generosity is always at the heart of my message. Now most people think of generosity as just pertaining to money, but it’s so much more than that. It’s time. It’s talent. It’s relationships. It’s wisdom. And when I’m successful in showing how giving away something valuable like that to others blesses everyone involved, I feel I’ve conveyed something truly important. So yeah, sharing the amazing power of generosity is what gets me up in the morning.
You have such impressive work. What are some of the most interesting or exciting projects you are working on now? Where do you see yourself heading from here?
Well, first and foremost, I’m an author. And what I’m working on now is a series of books that follows along my last book, Ghost Patriot. It is a work of fiction, so it gives me a platform to express how I see the world and how I think we can all make a difference. So, what ends up happening is people ask me to speak on what the book’s about and then that allows me to share much broader views. If people fall in love with the story or the characters, they want to know more about why I created them. And even if people don’t like my book, it gives me a great way to convince them that they can see the book in a different light. As for what I see myself doing in the future, I am a writer, so as long as I have the power in my fingers to press a keyboard, I will write.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
Most people don’t know this about me, but I am a professionally trained horseman. I was fortunate to have apprenticed under two hall of fame horse trainers when I was a young man. One of them taught me a lesson I’ll never forget and have often repeated. I was in a stall, and I went to lead this very expensive horse out of the barn. But he stopped me by grabbing my arm forcefully, right at the elbow. My natural reaction was to resist. Then he said, “Now, let me try it this way.” And he grasped my elbow lightly in the same spot and just lifted it gently. My natural reaction was to let him have my arm and follow his lead. Then he said, “Let me teach you the most important thing you’ll ever know about horses. It is — Let the wrong thing be difficult, and the right thing be easy.”
This life lesson taught me how to lead powerful horses who have a unique personalities and temperaments and strong wills and emotions. And I found the same philosophy works with human beings. You might be able to physically force a human being to do something, but if you really want them to do something willingly, you need to look for ways to make the wrong thing difficult and the right thing easy.
Here’s how that might apply in business. Let’s say you want your frontline customer service people to be more pleasant in their interactions. Because when your staff is welcoming, respectful, and helpful, your customers, patients or clients are happy. And happy people keep coming back, give great reviews and will refer your business to others. Here’s a real-life example of how that works.
I wanted to make an appointment to see my doctor, but the process of setting that appointment was convoluted and frustrating. First, I called to make an appointment, but they weren’t available. Then they called me back at a random time when I wasn’t available. This went back and forth a few more times until I finally got the appointment. Then they start pinging me with all kinds of messages and follow-up calls. So, by the time I finally get there, I’m ticked off about the process. And assuming everyone is experiencing that same aggravating process, who is the person who gets the brunt of all their frustration? Why, the poor receptionist, of course.
I had a visit just two weeks ago and the receptionist was short with me. I looked at her and politely asked, “Are you having a bad day? Because you don’t have to talk to me like this.” She caught herself and said, “Oh, I’m sorry. You’re right. I got a lot going on.” And I gave her a compassionate smile and said, “I understand.” See, they set her up for that by making the appointment process difficult. She’s not a mean, angry person. She’s just placed in a position where everybody that walks in is mad at her. So how do we fix that? Make the right thing easy by simplifying the appointment process.
Ok, thank you for all that. Here is the main question of our interview. What are your “5 Things You Need To Be A Highly Effective Public Speaker?” Please share a story or example for each.
Practice Makes Perfect.
Many public speakers never reach their potential because they rely on their talent and not their effort. But the ones who do exceedingly well do so because they put in the time and effort to practice, practice, practice. They practice in front of a mirror, their loved ones, a video camera, a trainer or coach, or a smaller audience. And it is through that practice that they really begin to master their speech and perfect their craft. A good analogy for this skill development would be an athlete who was gifted in sports but relied only on talent and not effort. Eventually he or she will get blown away by the competition who is willing to do everything it takes to excel.
Learn From Experts
If you want to be viewed as an expert, you must do what experts do. And that learning process starts by observing them. Watch how they present certain topics. See how they present their messages in different settings. Then use the techniques they used. It will take your proficiency to a whole new level.
Here’s how that observation process worked for me. I’ve had the benefit of being around some of the greatest preachers, pastors, and evangelists in the world. As I watched them, I realized there’s a big difference between the way they preach to a live audience of 300,000 people and how they preach on television. There is a subtle difference in the way they stand, the way they use their hands, the way they interact. And by noting those differences, I had the benefit of learning how to be better in my presentations.
Know Your Audience.
I can’t stress how important it is to know your audience. You must know who you’re talking to and tailor your message accordingly. Otherwise, your message — and you — becomes irrelevant, awkward, uninteresting, or aggravating. And on that last one, unless you mean to be a provocateur in your public speaking, try to avoid audiences that are clearly going to be aggravated with your worldview. It will save you from a life of negativity.
Dress For Success.
This one might seem a little odd, but you should dress one level up from your audience. If you are speaking at a convention where the dress code is business casual, then you should wear a suit and tie. If your audience is in flip flops and board shorts, you should be wearing a polo shirt and casual dress pants. Because the way you dress has to do with how your audience will perceive your brand. To that point, I’ve seen some speakers really go out of their way to solidify their brand. I was just speaking at the National Speakers Association and there was a guy there walking around in a cowboy outfit with shiny saddle bags thrown over his shoulder. I’m not sure what his message was, but I can only assume his outfit was another level up from what his audience was wearing.
Communicate With Your Host
It is so important to communicate with your host. Some speakers don’t get that, so they just show up and give one of their five messages. And because they didn’t take time to learn from the host who their audience is, their presentation sounds canned and flat. The audience is like, “Well, you might as well just have sent me a CD”. That kind of reaction will never make a difference for them or get you invited back to speak. So, communicate with your host, so you really understand what their expectations are. Find out how much money you’re going to make, when you’re supposed to be there, what’s the dress code, what the audience is about, what they want you to achieve with the audience, etc. It’s so simple and important to the process, and its mind boggling to me how few speakers utilize this valuable resource.
As you know, many people are terrified of speaking in public. Can you give some of your advice about how to overcome this fear?
The answer is very simple. Find a good Toastmasters group and follow it. Toastmasters is designed to help you get through your public speaking fears. You may never do public speaking as your main profession, but what that skill will do for your confidence, poise, articulation, communication skills, etc. will bless every aspect of your life. And if you are required to do public speaking for work, Toastmasters will allow you to hone your skills in a supportive environment where it won’t cost you money, respect, or opportunity if you bomb. So, whether you need it as a career boost or just want to face down your fear, I heartily recommend you do at least the first 10 challenges in Toastmasters. I guarantee you it will be a game changer.
You are a person of huge influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be?
I would love to inspire people to live generously. To have them experience the joys and rewards of giving to others. I’m not just taking about being generous with your money, but with every area of your life. Just using your time as an example, if you are always rushed, hurried or too busy for others, that typically leads to hurt feelings and strained or broken relationships. On the other hand, if you budget your time well you can use it wisely to nurture relationships, build important bonds, create or relive amazing experiences, and discover ways you can support and collaborate with others. In doing so you will discover one of the great mysteries of life — the more you give, the more you receive.
Is there a person in the world whom you would love to have lunch with, and why? Maybe we can tag them and see what happens!
I would love to have lunch with Barack Obama. Now, to be clear, I don’t agree with any of his politics. But I do find the guy interesting and engaging. So, I wouldn’t mind just having a conversation with him because dialog and understanding is so very important today. And we could all benefit by judging less and understanding more so we can have fruitful relationships with people who view some aspect of the world differently.
I think what got me intrigued by Barack was the way that he once handled a conflict early in his administration. He invited the various parties to the White House to have a beer. And as they all had a beer, they tried to work out their differences. And I thought, “You know what? Not because he’s the President, but I wouldn’t mind talking to him over a beer.” Just because I think he’s a really smart man, and if he would listen, I’d like to share some of my points of view.
Are you on social media? How can our readers follow you online?
Be observant and have active listening skills. What you may foresee as the customers’ wants and your vision may not be it. So, being willing to listen to your customers is super important. I initially built Brevity as an entrepreneurial tool, but we recognized from the results of our beta people wanted this same type of framework for sales and different scenarios. So it opened our eyes to the power of what we initially built and where it’s going.
We had the pleasure of interviewing Kelvin Johnson.
CEO & Co-founder of Brevity Pitch, an AI-powered software helping professionals, create persuasive pitches, Kelvin Johnson has versatile career experience as a CPA, consultant, and executive at a fast-growth tech startup in Denver. He is the author of the forthcoming novel, “Don’t Fear The Sharks: Six Principles to Pitch Investors,” coming out in October 2022. Johnson graduated from Villanova University with a Master of Accountancy.
Thank you so much for joining us in this interview series! Before we dive in, our readers would love to learn a bit more about you. Can you tell us a story about what brought you to this specific career path?
My parents were sales professionals. They were perplexed about my first job at the Big 4 Accounting Firm. They asked me how to become a CPA when I couldn’t stop running my mouth.
Eventually, I moved into management consulting, which I thought was a good mix of salesmanship, while still being analytical. I also started to get good at cross-selling and upselling work as a consultant. Still, as a senior consultant, you don’t get compensated for that until you are an associate director or director. As an impatient millennial, I didn’t want to wait for this long to be paid for my efforts.
So I was at a crossroads in my career. Do I join the dark side of sales like my parents, or do I go somewhere where I can see my ideas come to fruition? So I chose the latter. I became the fifth employee of a tech company in Denver, Colorado. From that opportunity, I learned a lot. I managed sales, products, and operations and led two acquisitions. Eventually, the CEO of that company and founder said, “You have the makings of a CEO. When you have a great idea, I will fund your company.” And he ended up keeping this promise.
But what brought Brevity to light was when I started a freelance consulting shop called “Humble Warrior Advisors.” And at that shop, I was helping early-stage entrepreneurs get that next major milestone during that period because of my cross-functional background.
I found myself helping out the most with the pitch, and what was great about that but simultaneously frustrating was that people saw and found value in my services. However, entrepreneurs wanted to work with me but couldn’t afford my fees. I couldn’t help them.
What are the current options in the market? And on one end, you have expensive pitch coaches and consultants like me. Or you have these expert books, blogs, and YouTube channels that can be time-consuming and overwhelming to learn.
And then, when I looked under the umbrella of the pitch and presentation software as a service market, I recognized that most of them are focused on pitch deck aesthetics and cosmetics, but not necessarily the story, content, messaging, and delivery.
At that point, I saw a gap in the market, and that’s when Brevity came to birth.
Can you share the most exciting story that has happened to you since you began your company?
The most compelling story is one of our most significant strategic partnerships, Founders Live. They are a global entrepreneurial organization in 130 cities and five continents.
I saw a random email from Founders Live looking for a city leader to run the Minneapolis branch. They have a 99-second pitch competition. So I applied for that city leader because I saw obvious synergies with Brevity’s platform. I had my first introductory call with Nick Hughes.
The moral of the story is he didn’t just want me to be a city leader. He said, “You’ve built software that can help my organization” Throughout time, founders who live in Minneapolis ended up using our Beta product. And we produced a lot of global finalists, contributing heavily to Brevity’s proof of concept.
Finding an excellent opportunity for our company through a random outreach email is a lucky story.
Can you share a story about your funniest mistake when you first started? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?
The funniest mistake I made (if you can call it funny!) was when I was at that tech company in Denver, and the CEO founder told me that if I have a great idea at some point and I’m mature, he’s going to fund my company.
So I told him about the early stages of Brevity. He was intrigued by the concept, and without any assurance that what we built worked, I asked him for a large amount of money without any validation. There wasn’t a lot of validation. He started challenging certain assumptions and said, “You validate these assumptions. I’ll write you a check.”
So it made me go back to the drawing board. And I learned a profound lesson about validating your assumptions. And he’s one of our most prominent investors to this day.
Can you tell us a story about the hard times you faced when you started your journey? Did you ever consider giving up? Where did you get the drive to continue, even though things were so hard?
Working with people was always difficult when you have different personalities and views or philosophies that were probably different visions. At times, that’s perhaps one of the most complex parts when you first start this journey.
Did I consider giving up Brevity Pitch? I did. There was, of course, high blood pressure and all these different things, but where the drive to continue came from is, first and foremost, my parents. From an early age, they would sacrifice. We lived in West Philadelphia, and they offered to send us to prestigious private schools. And, you know, West Philadelphia wasn’t the best in the area to grow up in. Yet they made the sacrifices that put us in a position to excel.
But when I decided to pursue my entrepreneurial journey, they were close by my side and advocates.
I’d also like to acknowledge the investors of our company. We have over 20 people invested in this company, and they have helped me through many hard times and didn’t give up on me.
None of us can achieve success without some help along the way. Is there a particular person you are grateful for who helped get you to where you are? Can you share a story about that?
Early on, one of my mentors, Steve Thomas, was a massive inspiration for me.
I told him I wanted to be a partner at a Big Four firm. And he told me honestly that he didn’t think I would be happy there. He’s the one who encouraged me to leave my consulting firm to join an early-stage tech company in Denver. Once I tasted the rapid pace of working at an early-stage company, I wanted that for myself and my own company.
Can you give us your favorite life lesson quote? Can you share how that is relevant in your life?
One of my favorite quotes is from a basketball player, Sean Singletary, who told me, “Don’t get bitter, get better.” And that’s one of my famous quotes, as it’s so easy when you don’t get your way or get rejected. It’s so easy to play the victim card. Instead, he taught me to embrace the lesson of not getting bitter about things and work to constantly improve.
Now let’s shift to the main focus. The United States currently faces an essential self-reckoning about race diversity, equality, and inclusion. This is a vast topic, but briefly, can you share your view on how this crisis has evolved to the boiling point that it is now?
I live in the Twin Cities, and I watched an incredible documentary on race and the impact that it’s had on education, getting mortgages, and how difficult it is for people in poverty to have the same opportunities. This has had a significant impact on why things are the way they are. And I live in a city where my barber shop was around a corner from where George Floyd’s murder took place.
So these mechanisms purposely put in place have had a significant impact. And it shows why we are where we are today. This may be obvious to most of us, but it would be helpful to spell out.
Can you articulate to our readers a few reasons why it’s so essential for a business or organization to have a diverse executive team?
Of course. It comes down to the fact that when similar minds are the only perspectives, there is a blindspot in judgment. So if you’re trying to acquire customers, one of the big things we have within our software is buying personalities.
And, you know, people have different buying personas and philosophical meanings of life. As long as you and your team comes from a place of respect and trust, there will be synergy. My co-founder and I don’t even always agree. However, having a team that allows you to question, seek answers, and ultimately make the best decision is going to have the best impact on the culture, economics, and vision.
Let’s zoom out a bit and talk in more broad terms. It’s hard to be satisfied with the status quo regarding Black Men in Tech leadership. What specific changes do you think are needed to change the status quo?
I think we need more shepherds, right? Right. You have more opportunities you’re not ready for, but you have the capacity and competency to get there. And the best example for me is Wade Rosen, who I work for in Denver, and Andreas, who both gave me a real chance as a Director of Operations at a fast-growing tech company when on paper, I wasn’t qualified.
So I think within the interview process, being able to dig deep into people’s life experiences, not just professional experiences, shows context that they can strive in.
Digging deeper, I think these types of environments are critical. One of my favorite football coaches is PJ Fleck from the University of Minnesota. A question he askes during the interview process when he was recruiting players, “Tell me about when you’ve failed in life.” I’m paraphrasing here, but it was to tell him about when you failed and what you learned from it. For the players that don’t have that vulnerability he’s less interested. So really, diving a little bit deeper is incredibly important.
We love to learn a little bit about your company. What is the pain point that your company is helping to address?
I run into many people with remarkable concepts, ideas, proposals, or businesses. Still, they have a lot of difficulties communicating concisely and in a compelling manner. In this short attention span society, we compete with Zoom fatigue and lower comprehension rates. People want instant information and don’t have 60 minutes to conclude what you do, why they should care, and the following steps to work together.
That’s the most significant pain point we’re addressing, and that theme is relevant across sales, applicable across interviewing, and fundraising. Anytime you need the influence to convince or connect, it’s super important to be clear, concise, and compelling. And what we do at Brevity is help people formulate and craft the right story, content, messaging, and delivery to be clearly understood but also persuasive.
What do you think makes your company stand out? Can you share a story?
One of our users who moved to the USA from Africa didn’t have the best English language skills. He ended up using our coaching and our software. He is on his way to becoming one of the most successful tech companies in the twin cities. By leveraging our coaching and software, he could be a little more compact in his messaging. He learned how to tell stories that illustrate the need for his product, and I would say that’s one of the best stories we can speak to.
Are you working on any exciting projects now? How, how do you think this will, how do you think that will help people? How do you think that that will help people?
Yes, actually. The most exciting project is our beta product to help people raise several million dollars to win pitch competitions. But what we’re seeing now, based on the insights we’ve garnered from our proof of concept, is that people want to be able to leverage our pitch script frameworks, intelligence, timing, logic, all the things that we built in our software into a more ubiquitous nature.
So whether interviewing for a job or asking for a promotion or a raise, people want to ensure they have the right story, content messaging, and delivery to influence and persuade their target audience.
Our commercially-viable product launches in October; this is the most exciting project we are working on right now.
What would you advise of another tech leader who initially went through years of success of growth but has reached a standstill from your experience? Do you have any general advice about boosting growth or sales or restarting their engines?
The first thing that comes to mind is knowing how to be a great active listener. Being customer obsessed and asking them questions. But the beauty of it is not what they initially say.
There’s a concept of five whys in Kaizen. Someone rarely gives you the correct answer in their initial response. Being able to have that trusted relationship with your customers and understand their needs is one of the ways that can help you experience massive growth. Also, paying attention to the trends in your industry or adjacent industries is incredibly important because when you develop a product or a service, paying attention to similar characteristics and psychographics of another customer segment can also be an excellent way to expand sales.
Even for us at Brevity, we are going international. There are 67 English-speaking countries. So it’s super important to realize other geographies you could also expand into.
Do you have any advice about how companies can create high-performing sales teams?
Two things I learned early on with high-performing sales teams are: One, having a leader that can sell themselves and gets on the front line showing people that they can also do this, is super important.
And two, ensure that you have an environment of coaching, consistent training, and role-playing. This way, the time people get to the front stage, there’s less stage fright, and they can have that habit of performing in these sometimes intense situations.
In your specific industry, What methods have you found most effective in finding and attracting the right customers? Can you share any stories or examples?
We still have a long way to grow, and one of the most effective methods I’ve seen in our early stages is being quite literally in proximity to your buyers. For example, we had an event that I was invited to speak to within the last three weeks called F’UP nights. F’UP nights are where CEOs express vulnerability, showcasing where they messed up in a portion of their career and
what they learned from it.
What was great about it was that a potential buyer was there. I didn’t even say anything about Brevity, I said maybe one line about it, but long story short, it resulted in a sale. So literally, strategically networking and not going in to grow a business, but instead of learning, developing, and connecting with people, has been an excellent way for us to find the right customers.
Based on your experience, can you give three or four strategies to give your customers the best user experience and customer service?
The first strategy is the timeliness of being responsive and following through–holding yourself accountable for that.
The second one is on the customer side: our customers are program directors and CEOs and having “quality partner reviews” quarterly. Those have been dynamite for us.
The third is establishing ground rules and expectations and what they see as their KPIs or critical success metrics before starting the engagement.
The fourth is owning your mistakes and not deflecting because I’ve seen many relationships improve dramatically when you own your mistake and improve.
As you like to know, this HBR article demonstrates that studies are shown that retaining customers can be far more lucrative than finding new ones. Can you share some advice from your experience about how to determine customer churn? Do you use any specific initiatives to limit customer attrition or customer churn?
Quality partner reviews are enormous. The other is like having a great company culture where people feel heard and valued because they will show up better for your customers. Another is listening and implementing, being honest when you can’t, and being transparent.
Here’s the central question for our discussion based on your experience. Success. What are the five most important things someone should know in order to create a very successful tech company? Please share an example for each.
Number one is to validate your assumptions and build a minimum viable product test. The ability to see if people get the end outcome of the results you foresaw is most important, and we did that with our beta product. I assumed this would help people increase their chances of being clearly understood and compelling and streamline the process of creating a pitch. And it did. You need to see if people get the end outcome of the results you foresaw is most important, and we did that with our beta product.
The other important aspect of a successful tech company is to have a hiring process early on and even for original co-founders or vendors. The method I use is the “Who Hiring Method.” And even for one of my good friends, who is now my co-founder–Max Huc–we went through that process. And we got clarity in the context of our strengths and weaknesses together. One of the most important is to involve a hiring process for co-founders, employees, and even vendors and stay consistent with it.
The third thing anyone running a successful tech company should know about is self-care. This is an arduous journey; staying disciplined and consistent with your self-care and always being willing to adapt and modify is crucial because no success can amount if you don’t take care of yourself first.
The fourth is to be observant and have active listening skills. What you may foresee as the customers’ wants and your vision may not be it. So, being willing to listen to your customers is super important. I initially built Brevity as an entrepreneurial tool, but we recognized from the results of our beta people wanted this same type of framework for sales and different scenarios. So it opened our eyes to the power of what we initially built and where it’s going.
Those are the main things that build a successful tech company. The last one is solidifying your core values earlier than you thought. You should leverage those in the hiring and selection process of the people you bring on board; that was critical for us. Easier said than done because I actually struggled with building your foundation for scale, setting up the hub spots, setting up the procedures, and making sure your administrative house is in order. From what I’ve heard, I think it is super vital regarding potential buy-out. Those organizational documents and compliance can, unfortunately, get overlooked.
The final media questions of our discussion. You are a person of enormous influence. If you could Inspire movement, that will bring the most amount of goods to the most amount of people. What would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger.
Early on, having the education system dig into emotional education, whether a therapist or educator, was entirely helpful. I’m a big fan of cognitive behavioral therapy. I’ve been with mine for the last six years, and it helps me more often than not. It also allows me show up my relaxed best self, and a movement around that would be awesome.
We are very blessed that very prominent readers read. In this column, is there a person in the world to us with whom you would love to have a private breakfast or lunch, and why he or she might see this if we tag them?
Because I grew up in Philly, the first one that comes to mind would be Will Smith. He grew up a block away. And I started reading his book and just some of the early life lessons he overcame. He had to overcome being someone who was called “the only chip in the cookie” at some of the early schools he went to and how he had balanced growing up in the ‘hood versus growing up in less diverse prestigious schools. Obviously, he’s famous, and he’s had a lot of success, but his work ethic is unbelievable. So, having conversations with him at a project and breakfast would be awesome.
This was so informative, thank you so much! We wish you continued success!
Know your material. Don’t try to “wing-it” You’ve got to know the points, stories, examples, so well that if something unexpected happens, like you lose your slides or note, that you can still be impactful.
At some point in our lives, many of us will have to give a talk to a large group of people. What does it take to be a highly effective public speaker? How can you improve your public speaking skills? How can you overcome a fear of speaking in public? What does it take to give a very interesting and engaging public talk? In this interview series called “5 Things You Need To Be A Highly Effective Public Speaker” we are talking to successful and effective public speakers to share insights and stories from their experience.
As a part of this series, we had the pleasure of interviewing Bethany Clemenson.
Bethany Clemenson is a speaker, leadership coach, registered nurse, and author of Ditching the Dream. After realizing she was living a life she was taught to want instead of the one she really wanted, Bethany left her corporate job in senior living, and she and her family sold almost everything they owned, bought a motorhome, and traveled the US on an adventure designed by their teens. She now supports others on their journey to let go of what they were taught to believe and want for their lives, and instead, decide to live out what they truly desire.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Our readers would love to get to know you a bit better. Can you tell us the story of how you grew up?
I grew up in a small town in Southern Illinois. My parents worked hard to support our family. I am the oldest of two. I have one sister who is seven years younger than me. When I was younger we lived in a trailer and then one day in sixth grade, I remember coming home to see the trailer sitting off our property and a doublewide trailer in its place. All my basic needs were met and I was loved but I watched my parents struggle financially to have nicer things. I always wanted more but remember feeling like I was wrong for wanting more and this deep sense that I “should ‘’ just be grateful for what I had because so many people had less. I floundered after high school and eventually became a nurse because it was a safe and solid career choice and all the other women in my family were nurses.
Can you share a story with us about what brought you to this specific career path?
As a nurse, I worked in the emergency room and I used to cry before I went to work. I enjoyed helping people but didn’t love how I did it. One day, a friend of mine told me about this job posting she saw for a leadership position at a brand new assisted living community that was opening. I read the description and applied for the job. I had no management experience, outside of running a code blue in the ER, but I took a chance anyway. I got the job and for the first time ever, I loved what I did. I couldn’t wait to go to work and had a lot of fun making a difference. As the years went on, I began working on myself with a life coach and the effects rippled out to every area of my life. I shared what I was learning with anyone who would listen and eventually I got the courage to leave my corporate job and become a certified coach.
Can you tell us the most interesting story that happened to you since you began your career?
Watching people wake up to the idea that so many of their limits are self-imposed. We have so much free will that it can be incredibly easy to imprison ourselves by what we believe. When I speak and work with clients one-on-one, they discover how to set themselves free. I’ve had clients go back to college after years of feeling like they weren’t smart enough to get a degree. Another client quit college after realizing that she was doing it only to please her parents. At one speaking event recently, an attendee stopped me after and said she was taking a vacation for the first time in five years! The people I work with get promotions, save their marriages, forgive themselves and others, learn how to say no without feeling guilty and step into living a life on their terms. The number one regret of the dying is that they weren’t courageous enough to do what they wanted in their lives, I’m on a mission to change that.
Can you share a story about the funniest mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?
One of my first speaking engagements was at a high school honor society induction. I was nervous and tried to fit a lot of information into my fifteen minutes. I was talking so fast that my lips began sticking together. I asked for water but no one brought any…I had lost them with information overload. I learned that connecting with the audience is key and less is more when speaking. This also led me to become a certified speaker and take lessons to improve my stage presence. Life is definitely a classroom.
None of us are able to achieve success without some help along the way. Is there a particular person who you are grateful towards who helped get you to where you are? Can you share a story about that?
A resident named Maxine came into my life at a time where I had started to believe that no one lived a life true to themselves. I had been working in senior living for several years and sat with people as they faced the end of their lives and I realized that so many people didn’t live how they wanted to but instead lived for what they thought others wanted or expected of them. In the end, they never saw the Grand Canyon or learned to dance. Their dreams died with them.
Then Momma Max walked into my life and she was proof for me that you could live life on your terms. She hadn’t had an easy life but she was true to herself. She did things that lit her up and when her husband died, she bought a small motorhome and traveled the US alone! She helped me see possibilities and gave me hope.
You have been blessed with great success in a career path that can be challenging and intimidating. Do you have any words of advice for others who may want to embark on this career path, but seem daunted by the prospect of failure?
Failure and success go hand in hand. Failure is just a journey in learning — so shift your perspective and be committed to learn from each experience whether you deem it a success or not.
What drives you to get up everyday and give your talks? What is the main empowering message that you aim to share with the world?
My goal is to be proof for others that it’s possible to live life on your terms just like Momma Max was for me. I help people get clear about what they want, get real about why they don’t have it, and then take action by being courageous enough to do the things necessary to create a life they can’t wait to wake up to — regardless of what anyone else thinks.
You have such impressive work. What are some of the most interesting or exciting projects you are working on now? Where do you see yourself heading from here?
My debut book, Ditching the ream: How to Live Life on Your Terms recently released and I’m having so much fun sharing it on social media and through speaking engagements. I’m in the midst of recording the audiobook and creating a companion journal and course to go with the book. From here, I see expansion of my business and impact. It’s an exciting time for sure.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
Until you make the unconscious conscious, it will rule your life and you will call it fate. Carl Jung
I came across this quote not long after I started working with a life coach and remember thinking about how powerful we are. I started to see how my thinking and behavior were directly connected to the outcomes I was having in my life. I went from believing that life was happening to me to believing that life was happening for me. Our outside world and how we perceive everything around us is so deeply connected to our unconscious mind (our automatic thoughts and beliefs) and I have learned that once we begin to master our mind, we take our power back.
Ok, thank you for all that. Here is the main question of our interview. What are your “5 Things You Need To Be A Highly Effective Public Speaker?” Please share a story or example for each.
Water — see example above 🙂 Seriously though, I never go to stage without water.
Connection with the audience. The audience needs to feel like you “get” them. Share a relatable story, laugh at yourself, and be transparent. Instead of speaking at them, ask questions and get them engaged. When I speak I engage with the audience by asking questions throughout my presentation.
Know your material. Don’t try to “wing-it” You’ve got to know the points, stories, examples, so well that if something unexpected happens, like you lose your slides or note, that you can still be impactful.
Keep your presentation simple. Stick to a few points and share stories about each one. People remember stories over statistics because good stories drive an emotional connection.
Be true to yourself. Don’t speak on something you’re not fully comfortable with just to get on stage. Know your strengths, passions, and stay in your lane. In the beginning of my speaking career, I would speak on almost anything I was hired for. I was afraid to propose something that was a better fit. Today I trust that it’s all happening for me and make the proposal based on who I am, my strengths, and the impact I know I’m best at making. Your audience can feel it when it’s forced.
As you know, many people are terrified of speaking in public. Can you give some of your advice about how to overcome this fear?
Just start. I started small and honed my skill through lots of practice. You don’t need to be great to start, but you have to start to be great — Zig Ziglar. Lead a book club. Speak to a small group at work, in your community, or at church. Start where you are.
You are a person of huge influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be?
I would start a #ditchers movement where people would ditch the dreams they were taught to have and live life their way on their terms! I believe that if we all were in places, doing things that set our souls on fire that the world would be full of people who fulfilled their dreams and helped others do the same!
Is there a person in the world whom you would love to have lunch with, and why? Maybe we can tag them and see what happens!
Absolutely! Mel Robbins because I love how real, relatable, and actionable she is. Her messages are simple, profound, and life changing. Mel walks her talk and shares what she knows. I think she’s an incredible example of a #ditcher and I’d love to connect with her. Mel is a “Momma Max” for people!
Are you on social media? How can our readers follow you online?
