An Interview With Fotis Georgiadis
I think so many entrepreneurs get stuck in the numbers of it all. A fellow entrepreneur once pointed this out to me and it really resonated, because I think a lot of us over-analyze everything instead of just diving in and making the product. It made me realize how much time I had wasted in the past, but it also changed the way I approach life going forward.
As a part of our series about business leaders who are shaking things up in their industry, I had the pleasure of interviewing Carter Williams.
Carter has always been a science nerd and thought he would become a doctor. After college, he moved to New York City to work as a production assistant while applying to medical school. Almost immediately, it was clear the film industry was not his calling. The first company at which he was a founding member was Firefly Mobile, where we made a pioneering product: the first mobile phone for kids. From there, he went to business school (HBS) and started an edtech (educational technology) company with his professor. He then ventured into Private Equity, but realized his true passion was in creating products that helped others — enter Deeps.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we dig in, our readers would like to get to know you a bit more. Can you tell us a bit about your “backstory”? What led you to this particular career path?
I’ve always been a science nerd and I thought becoming a doctor was my natural path. After college, I moved to New York City to work as a production assistant while applying to medical school. Almost immediately, it was clear the film industry was not my calling. In fact, when I showed up for my fourth week of my first post-university job (along with my first job ever in the film world), I learned that the movie, along with my job, had been shelved — indefinitely. I was fortunate enough to find construction jobs to make ends meet until I could find film work again. And this was how it went for some time. On more than one occasion, I’d go without power for weeks at a time after not being able to pay the electricity bill.
The clouds parted when a business plan for the first mobile phone for kids landed quite literally in my lap. As I paged through the plan for Firefly Mobile, I felt like I’d been thunderstruck but in the AC/DC sort of way. A mentor once told me “sometimes opportunity walks by and when you recognize it, you’ve got to reach out and grab it by the cloak and, despite not knowing where it will take you and all the uncertainty, you’ve got to just hold on or it passes you by.” And that is what I did. Essentially prying their door open, I said don’t take my word for it — let me show you what I can bring. I then jumped-in headfirst and set out to prove that I could be a significant contributor. To my surprise and delight, they asked me to join the team. my own.
Ever since, I’ve channeled my educational and professional pursuits toward building meaningful products that fill a whitespace and that directly impact people. Enter Deeps.
Can you tell our readers what it is about the work you’re doing that’s disruptive?
We saw a significant gap in the sleep wellness market. There were three categories of sleep aids writ large: Prescription and over-the-counter pharmaceuticals, non-science based holistic products, and at the bulky center of the market, melatonin in various forms.
Like any industry, new products continue to pop up on shelves, yet, in our view the sleep-aid category was unique in that it was marked by a type of incremental product evolution that could be characterized as one in slow motion. Whether online or in physical retail environments, the lack of innovation and slow-moving product-enhancement incrementalism was observable across the commerce landscape. It was especially evident in the sleep-aid aisles across the brick-and-mortar retailers, large or small. In a store, the sleep-aid section was a wall purple and yellow, consisting of bottles with similar labels. Differentiation was either not apparent or marginal. And when we witnessed product evolution, the product enhancements were incremental and modest and predominantly ‘new feature’ focused. Generally the products were the same but with a slight twist. We observed that new products tended to fall into one of three enhancement categories: (i) different combinations of the same ingredients, (ii) the same product with the inclusion of an additional ingredient (e.g. Melatonin+), and (iii) each of the foregoing offered in several ingestible formats. The biggest innovation to date was the introduction of sleep gummies, an alternative to pill form.
We also noticed there were some negative side effects accompanying many of these types of sleep-aids, which led us to the exhaustive approach we took to the science and R&D of the patch — how it felt, how it fit, how it looked, how it smelled, how it worked biomechanically and with people’s sleep routines and mostly how it performed. We iterated and reformulated more times than I can count. The result features innovative ingredients and sustained-release technology that help you fall asleep faster, and sleep better through the night, without waking-up feeling groggy or medicated.
There is endless research out there supporting the health benefits of sleep, which so many of us overlook. Our mission for the company is to transform the sleep wellness industry by introducing real sleep solutions that are thoughtful, sustainable, emotional, effective, and backed by science. The Deeps Sleep Patch is our first step on that mission.
Can you share a story about the funniest mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?
When we began exploring sleep-focused patch solutions we also used sleep-adjacent categories. One of the first prototypes we developed was a pain patch. A friend’s husband volunteered to try our first prototype. He was actually pretty enthusiastic as he worked on the assembly line at an automotive plant and had been experiencing lower back pain. He reported that he loved the patches…. until he had to remove them. As it turned out, he would invariably forget to remove his pain patch after returning home from work. His user-experience went like this: He would bring a prototype patch with him to work and then apply it to his lower back before beginning his shift. At which point he’d discover that the previous day’s prototype patch was where the new one was meant to go. Located in the small of his back, it was difficult to remove — so he’d just wear yesterday’s patch through his work day. When he arrived home he’d need to have his wife help him rip it off. There were definitely some yelps and suffice it to say, he got a targeted waxing he hadn’t bargained for, so we went back to the drawing board. Many iterations later we came to a product where everything clicked.
We all need a little help along the journey. Who have been some of your mentors? Can you share a story about how they made an impact?
My advice to anyone hoping to achieve success in any industry, is to find a great mentor. Since I was young, I have always tried to surround myself with people who not only inspire me, but who also push me outside of my comfort zone.
In business school, I met one of my greatest mentors, Peter Olson, the previous pioneering CEO of Random House. He started out as my professor, educating me about the fundamental business skills needed to succeed professionally. However, along the way, he has impacted my life personally as well. Years later, we still speak once a week.
His support has helped to give me the confidence that I am more than just my last good idea or business plan. He also has taught me that fear of failure and disappointment is within all of us but you don’t have to show your cards at all times.
My uncle Tod Williams, an architect and a true visionary, also taught me about the importance of mission and passion: The former must always be followed by the latter — both are critical but mission is fundamental. Tod also taught me the importance of details. One time we were walking into a museum that he and his wife designed. Like all of his projects, he took deep pride in every aspect of the space. So, when he noticed a piece of gum on the ground — something nearly every person who walked in had overlooked — I could see how much it bothered him. Without saying a word, he bent down and pried it off the floor with his bare hands. While you always have to make compromises, he believed that the central vision — including even the smallest details — must hold.
This started making a lot of sense in my own professional life when we were in the formulation phase of creating Deeps: Every ingredient had to fit with our mission, including how it was sourced and its contribution to the final product both individually and synergistically.
In today’s parlance, being disruptive is usually a positive adjective. But is disrupting always good? When do we say the converse, that a system or structure has ‘withstood the test of time’? Can you articulate to our readers when disrupting an industry is positive, and when disrupting an industry is ‘not so positive’? Can you share some examples of what you mean?
I think the answer is subjective. Labels are challenging and disruption can mean a variety of things.
We can think about the Yeti cooler as an example of disruption. Coolers have existed for decades, but Yeti wholly reimagined the category by departing from a utilitarian perspective of the cooler and embraced a new definition. The once humble cooler became a must-have accessory-tool for all types of users and across all manner of use cases, from anglers to adventurers to weekend beach-goers and to Renaissance Fair attendees (into which category I fall). Yeti’s vision challenged other brands to better understand their customer and design something they wanted.
To me, disruption is at once a process and the natural state of things. Think about video conferencing. It has revolutionized the way we do business, and opened the floodgates for a new culture of remote work to emerge. But can it really replicate the magic that happens when people are collaborating in the same physical space?
It’s both boon and bane — a sword that cuts both ways. It positively moves the needle for businesses of all kinds, and has become a tool in the arsenal of almost every working professional’s life. But video conferencing has limitations at best, and consequences at worst.
No single innovation is a silver bullet. It’s exciting to see innovation happen anywhere and everywhere — and to see that the pace of innovation is quickening. To tinker, find solutions, innovate, and perhaps even by accident, disrupt, is a hallmark of the human condition.
Can you share five of the best words of advice you’ve gotten along your journey? Please give a story or example for each.
Wherever you go, there you are. To me, the quote is a reminder that we do not have reprieve from ourselves. When that feels heavy, I remind myself of something my mentor Peter Olson often says: “Just be Carter. Carter is your magic.” It helps reset my perspective to where it should be.
Make the concept car. Growing up in Michigan I would go to the Detroit Auto Show every year with my father. Concept cars always fascinated me, as they involved thinking really big while also sitting at the critical intersection of ‘form’ and ‘function’. Year after year, I’d be excited to see the Big 3 unveil their new cars. How could it not be the actual concept car I saw at the show or some version of it? Yet it always seemed what emerged from behind the curtain was the same car as the previous version except the new one had a spoiler. I never understood why they didn’t just make the concept car. And then Elon Musk came along and actually did. The risk clearly paid off and the world is a better place because of it.
Those aren’t orders, those are people. Over a casual lunch one day my first boss, Skip, shared a story with me that had a profound impact on his career. It went like this: He pioneered a consumer product that became a breakout blockbuster hit. Skip was woefully behind on product fulfillment and a stack of purchase orders had piled up on his desk. Lou Wasserman, a seasoned industry sales rep walked-in and asked, “What are those?” pointing to the stack of paper. “Those are orders,” Skip casually replied. Slamming his fist on the table, Lou yelled: “Dammit, those aren’t orders! Those are people!…. And those are promises.” The lesson was completely revelatory to me and something I think of often
Don’t let others get your kicks for you. Andrew Lowenstein, a mentor of mine, offered up this Bob Dylan quote to me on multiple occasions. Basically, so many people have great ideas, but may not take action and end up watching someone else take it to the finish line. If you have an idea, get out there and build it. There is a big difference between wanting to do something and going out there and actually doing it.
Enough with the f*$king numbers. Go get out there. I think so many entrepreneurs get stuck in the numbers of it all. A fellow entrepreneur once pointed this out to me and it really resonated, because I think a lot of us over-analyze everything instead of just diving in and making the product. It made me realize how much time I had wasted in the past, but it also changed the way I approach life going forward.
We are sure you aren’t done. How are you going to shake things up next?
I’m a person who is never going to be done until I am in the ground. There is still so much I want to accomplish in the realm of sleep wellness. Sleep patches are just the beginning. We are currently in the development process of some really exciting products that will help people of all ages get the sleep they need and deserve.
Do you have a book, podcast, or talk that’s had a deep impact on your thinking? Can you share a story with us? Can you explain why it was so resonant with you?
It’s funny. I read so many books and listen to loads of podcasts, only to tap into some of the greatest lessons through my three-year-old son’s books. We read one of his favorites, Fireman Small, almost every night. It is about the only fireman in a small town, who humbly and wholeheartedly shows up to work every day. Whether it’s the smallest things, like rescuing a cat from a tree, or saving a burning bakery, Fireman Small is always there to answer the call.
And he isn’t there for the accolades or the money, but to show up and help people all while treating each person and situation like they are the highest priority, and oftentimes putting others in front of himself. Throughout the story he’s preparing for a good night’s sleep but when the fire bell rings, he’s still out the door. On the last page of the book, Fireman Small finally crawls into bed once more and pulls the covers over his head. I always find myself hoping that he finally gets a night of undisturbed sleep.
I love the message of this story: Fireman Small’s unrelenting work ethic, humility, and selflessness. And, at the end of a day, he reaps the reward of fulfillment and happiness. When it comes down to it, you can make all the money in the world, but nothing is as rewarding as getting to fall asleep at night, knowing that you showed up for your people, answered all the calls, and got the job done.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you share how that was relevant to you in your life?
I have always tried to keep the quote, “A ship in a harbor is safe but that is not what ships are for,” in the back of my mind, especially in those moments of self-doubt. It can be tempting to take the easier, softer road that ends in a predictable future. However, you can’t be an entrepreneur without taking risks. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t plan and prepare for things that could go wrong, but you can’t let fear stop you. The greatest innovators always took their ship to sea, but not without bringing along a lifejacket and other necessary gear.
You are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. 🙂
I would really love to inspire the sleep wellness movement, for people to approach sleep the same way they do diet and exercise. There is endless research that shows that lack of sleep decreases productivity, negatively impacts both mental and physical health, and may even be linked to certain types of cancers and other serious health issues.
Some of the greatest breakthroughs in history came right after waking up and science shows that good sleep improves brain function. Einstein was a power sleeper. He was committed to getting 10 hours each night. Edison, however, was a prodigious napper (albeit a stealth one) who hated long sleeps and who generally viewed sleep as a burden. Perhaps if Edison took Einstein’s view on sleep I wonder if he could have turned out a few more zingers.
Yet, according to the CDC, more than one-third of Americans are not getting enough sleep on a regular basis.This is why Deeps is dedicated to creating products that will encourage not only more, but better sleep.
How can our readers follow you online?
This was very inspiring. Thank you so much for joining us!
Meet The Disruptors: Carter Williams Of Deeps On The Five Things You Need To Shake Up Your Industry was originally published in Authority Magazine on Medium, where people are continuing the conversation by highlighting and responding to this story.
