An Interview With Fotis Georgiadis
Better decisions: A study from Cloverpop says that compared to individual decision makers, diverse teams make better decisions 87% of the time. One of our school board customers asked students for ideas on how to increase safety for minority students on campus. They received a range of ideas and inputs and the number one idea that they had not considered before, which resonated most with the participants, was the need to install lighting along a path that was mostly used by minority students, on their way back home. This was not something that was known as an issue or solution and asking for diverse perspectives allowed them to make a better decision on how to help.
As a part of our series about “How Diversity Can Increase a Company’s Bottom Line”, I had the pleasure of interviewing Karen Craggs-Milne.
Karen Craggs-Milne is the Head of Anti-racism, Diversity, Equity and Inclusion at ThoughtExchange. A proud Kenyan Canadian, Craggs-Milne is a recognized global expert with more than 20 years of international experience promoting anti-racism, diversity, equity, gender equality and inclusion. Karen is also an Obama White House recognized Gender Equality Changemaker (2016), a Global Goodwill Ambassador for Sustainable Development Goals (2018), LinkedinGlobalSuperHero (2020) and a Top 100 Canadian Professional (2020). Karen’s passion is to educate and equip others on how to be ambassadors of change in their own spaces.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we dive into the main part of our interview, our readers would love to “get to know you” a bit more. Can you share a bit of your “backstory” with us?
I’m originally from Kenya and now live in Canada. What makes my story unique is that I bring an understanding and approach to social justice issues that is informed by growing up at the intersection of diverse cultures, races, languages, religions, etc. My mom is a practicing Jain (Indian) and a pure vegetarian while my dad is an adamant atheist and British colonialist who owned the best steak house in Nairobi. (Bizarre, I know!) I grew up with a black brother and I also have three older white siblings, (whose kids are older than me) from my dad’s first marriage. This complexity taught me at a young age to see the world from many different perspectives. I saw both the benefits of creating space, acceptance and belonging amongst diverse people. I also witnessed and experienced the harm caused when people are judged and discriminated against for being different.
I’ve spent the last 20 years of my career working on this issue globally — doing impactful work with governments, organizations and NGOs. When I discovered ThoughtExchange, I realized that this powerful yet simple and intuitive tool could impact the work that I was doing on social justice issues by giving people a voice in a way that was safe, inclusive, quick AND at scale. It revolutionized everything. I became an instant fan and was determined to find ways to help others benefit from the kind of work that we can do using ThoughtExchange.
Can you share the funniest or most interesting story that happened to you since you started your career? Can you tell us the lesson or take away you took out of that story?
I first met the ThoughtExchange team at an event they were hosting. I was invited to be its keynote speaker. At that event, I started with a very provocative question; the kind of provocative that had people almost falling off their chairs because they couldn’t believe that I raised a taboo topic in a ‘professional setting’. I did this intentionally and it worked on two levels. Firstly, it got everyone’s undivided attention and piqued their curiosity. Clearly, I wasn’t going to deliver the same speech that they tend to hear at these kinds of events. Secondly, I got them reflecting on their unconscious, conditioned expectations around this work. Perhaps there IS a way to push boundaries and ‘get real and authentic’ in such spaces after all? This memorable approach enabled me to invite people into courageous conversations about topics and issues that really matter to them. It is very much a part of how I do belonging and inclusion work. Being able to engage diverse people in appropriate and safe ways, while questioning traditional boundaries and notions of ‘what is in’ and ‘what is out’ is at the heart of what I do.
Can you please give us your favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Can you tell us a story about how that was relevant in your own life?
My quote is: “Conscious equality is not just what you do, it’s how you show up in the world every day.” I came up with this quote to capture my approach to anti-racism, diversity, equity and inclusion work. I bring mindfulness and compassion to social justice issues, which tend to be very difficult topics that can be triggering for many. It is very difficult to do this work when we ourselves are carrying heavy pain and trauma. We need to heal ourselves to heal the world. A big part of this work is turning the attention inwards and supporting ourselves so we can create safe spaces for people to share their experiences, to be heard and seen, and for us to move forward together.
None of us are able to achieve success without some help along the way. Is there a particular person who you are grateful towards who helped get you to where you are?
I learned a great deal about this work from my father, mother and brother.
- From my father, I learned that people we love can be deeply flawed and imperfect. I learned to be patient and non-judgmental, especially when I didn’t agree with him on his colonial perspective. I have watched him soften and evolve over time because I didn’t write him off but instead engaged him with gentle respect over time rather than giving up on him all together.
- From my mother, I learned that you can experience injustice, (she survived an abusive first marriage that almost killed her). Then she had to overcome the cultural stigma of being divorced and the backlash for choosing to marry a white man (my dad). I learned that injustice and trauma doesn’t have to break you. It can make you stronger, more resilient and even more loving and compassionate for others because of it.
- Lastly, through my brother, I learned that privilege is relative and that it is really important to use the privilege we have to advocate for people who don’t have it or can’t. I remember being six and my mom asking me to bring cake for my brother and I. I purposefully cut a larger piece of cake for him, not just because he was older and bigger but also because I was trying to compensate for how unfair others were towards him. I was practicing the principle of equity before I even knew what that meant. Today I use my relative privilege to advocate for and support others.
What do you think makes your company stand out? Can you share a story?
I LOVE ThoughtExchange. I really do. I say that because this company is based on the principles of doing good in the world and doing the right thing in each moment. And the right thing starts by ensuring everyone is heard and all perspectives are considered equally before taking action.
Our Enterprise Discussion Management platform enables leaders to have deep meaningful, open, inclusive, safe and anonymous conversations with large groups of people. By welcoming everyone’s voice, leaders get access to insights and data that would normally not come to the surface in other processes — helping them do the right thing.
Case and point: My role was created after the CEO ran a ThoughtExchange asking everyone in the company what else we could do to be better allies and advocates for anti-racism, diversity, equity and inclusion. One of the top thoughts that came through was the recommendation that the company create a position, bring in an experienced leader to take on this work internally while also supporting our customers. I’m so proud to say that is exactly what we have done.
Are you working on any new or exciting projects now? How do you think that might help people?
As a Canadian company we recognize that most of our employees live, work and play on originally stolen indigenous lands. We are committed to supporting truth and reconciliation and are working hard to understand what that looks like for us and leveraging our platform to help us and others to do the same.
We start every company meeting with a land acknowledgement. We have monthly sessions with an Indigenous Advisor, who helps us decolonize our perspectives while thinking about work and life. Most recently, we partnered with an indigenous organization to offer company-wide sponsored learning for all our employees on decolonization. To ensure that the individual learning translates into better company policies, practices and culture, we use our platform to engage in company-wide reflection on what we learned and how we can apply this to our organization. We use insights from our own internal work to also support our customers in similar conversations in their organizations on topics such as how to implement the Truth and Reconciliation Commission’s 94 Calls to Action. Truly important and much needed work.
How have you used your success to bring goodness to the world?
Social justice issues can be complex and overwhelming to understand or know how to tackle them.
It is easy to get overwhelmed and to think, “this is too big and I (or we) can’t make a difference”.
I use my skills and extensive knowledge in this field to help ‘non-experts’ understand and feel empowered to take meaningful actions that can have an impact. It is always exciting for me when I see how people I work with use their new knowledge and increased confidence to make tangible progress.
Ok. Thank you for that. Let’s now jump to the main part of our interview. This may be obvious to you, but it is not intuitive to many people. Can you articulate to our readers five ways that increased diversity can help a company’s bottom line. (Please share a story or example for each.)
- A more diverse workforce: We recently hired an amazing candidate who shared that for the first time ever, they chose not to hide their prayer mat during their job interview with us because they had read about our Anti-racism & DEI (ADEI) commitments and knew that we were increasingly diverse as a company. This matters a lot when you consider that more than 7 out of every 10 job seekers that you interview will decide whether or not you are the company for them based on how diverse you are.
- A more socially-minded employee base: According to a 2019 Yello survey, 70% of respondents say they would consider looking for a new job if their employer didn’t demonstrate a commitment to diversity. Having a Head of ADEI in the company communicates that ADEI is a priority for us. We also created an ADEI Council and invited ANY member of our organization to join if they want to support our work. This is because we believe that demonstrating this commitment also requires creating opportunities for others to engage and lead in this work as well.
- Better work environments: According to Catalyst’s 2019 report, 60% of Asian, Black, Latinx and multiracial professionals said they feel like they have to be on guard to protect against racial and gender bias while at work. At ThoughtExchange we address discrimination and bias through unconscious bias and microaggressions training, anonymous feedback channels, 360 degree performance reviews, one on one coaching, inclusive leadership work with leaders and more. We are constantly evaluating and updating our efforts to create a truly safe, equitable and inclusive workplace.
- Increased profits: When businesses welcome diverse teams and embrace diverse thinking, it leads to higher innovation — and a study by the Boston Consulting Group finds companies that have more diverse management teams have 19% higher revenue due to innovation. One of our customers used our platform to ask thousands of front-line staff what one product customers were asking for that they don’t currently offer. After receiving and reviewing the diverse feedback, they developed a product that opened up a huge new opportunity for more revenue!
- Better decisions: A study from Cloverpop says that compared to individual decision makers, diverse teams make better decisions 87% of the time. One of our school board customers asked students for ideas on how to increase safety for minority students on campus. They received a range of ideas and inputs and the number one idea that they had not considered before, which resonated most with the participants, was the need to install lighting along a path that was mostly used by minority students, on their way back home. This was not something that was known as an issue or solution and asking for diverse perspectives allowed them to make a better decision on how to help.
What advice would you give to other business leaders to help their employees to thrive?
Put people first and business outcomes second — and in order to put people first you have to truly care about them and create a safe space to hear them and to take actions that matter to them. That also means that you sometimes must be willing to break or redesign the business model so that people feel they get what they need from being on that team or in that company. The bottom line is that you must be willing to do business differently and must be an advocate for your employees.
What advice would you give to other business leaders about how to manage a large team?
Get ThoughtExchange. I’m serious!
I’m speaking as a world leading ADEI practitioner. This is the number one tool anyone with a large team needs to be able to be effective in their role. ThoughtExchange is the only Enterprise Discussion Management platform powered by patented anti-bias technology. Modern leaders use it to quickly gain critical insights and improve strategic decision making. It truly makes a difference whether you’re looking to engage ten stakeholders or a community of 10,000 people.
We are very blessed that some of the biggest names in Business, VC funding, Sports, and Entertainment read this column. Is there a person in the world, or in the US whom you would love to have a private breakfast or lunch with, and why? He or she might just see this 🙂
That’s easy! It would be a dream come true to share a meal with Oprah! Did you know that my friends and colleagues call me the Oprah of diversity and inclusion? LOL. No doubt we would have a lot to talk about!
How can our readers further follow your work online?
If my work resonates with you please reach out and let’s connect! Readers can follow me on LinkedIn, https://www.linkedin.com/in/karencraggs/, and keep up to date with ThoughtExchange at https://thoughtexchange.com/.
Thank you for these excellent insights. We wish you continued success in your great work.
Karen Craggs-Milne Of ThoughtExchange: “Here Is How Diversity Can Increase a Company’s Bottom Line” was originally published in Authority Magazine on Medium, where people are continuing the conversation by highlighting and responding to this story.
