Attorney Livia DeFilippis Barndollar On 5 Things You Need To Know To Survive And Thrive After A Divorce
An Interview With Fotis Georgiadis
… Keep an eye on your finances. Don’t overspend, at least not until you have a sense of what you need. Don’t make quick decisions out of emotion.
As part of our series about the “5 Things You Need To Know To Survive And Thrive After A Divorce Or Breakup” I had the pleasure of interviewing Livia DeFilippis Barndollar.
Livia DeFilippis Barndollar is a family law attorney with the law firm Pullman & Comley with more than 35 years of experience. Based in the firm’s Westport, Connecticut, office, she also serves as co-chair of Pullman & Comley’s Appellate practice, with a focus on family law appellate matters. In addition to representing parties in dissolution of marriage cases and marital and premarital agreements, she has also represented children in the divorce process. Barndollar is a past president of the Connecticut Bar Foundation and of the American Counsel Association. Livia wrote the chapter on alimony for the Lexis Nexis Connecticut Divorce Handbook, and has served as an editor for the Connecticut Bar Journal since 1985. She is also editor at large for the Family Advocate, published by the American Bar Association’s Section of Family Law, and has frequently presented at educational programs at both state and national levels.
Thank you so much for doing this with us! Before we dig in, our readers would like to ‘get to know you’. Can you tell us a story about what brought you to this specific career path?
It was a combination of things. When I was choosing a career path, there was a partner at the law firm I had joined just out of school who had an esteemed national reputation in family law. By watching him and by writing for him — articles, memoranda and briefs — I determined that I had the opportunity to master a substantive area of the law if I worked in that practice area. Knowing a particular area of the law really well was important to me, and still is. Equally important to my choice, however, was the opportunity for a personal connection to clients. My family ran a private neighborhood pharmacy for 40 years. My dad started the pharmacy when I was 1 year old and my parents, and eventually my siblings and I, were part of the neighborhood. I saw how much good my father’s patience, advice and compassion did for people who might be in extremis. I saw that I could give that same type of valuable support to people in the field of law I chose — also poetically — about 40 years ago. A family lawyer acts as a counselor at a very crucial time in someone’s life. I welcome my clients relying on my judgment and I try to be both the voice of reason and a safe place for them when they are going through the process of changing their lives.
Can you share the most interesting story that happened to you since you started this career?
I don’t know that I would typify this story as interesting, but I remember something that happened when I first started as a divorce lawyer that was an instructive experience. I had just been in court entering an agreement in a divorce (lots and lots of cases settle rather than go to trial) and the parties were just officially divorced. They walked out of the courthouse with their arms around each other’s waists, and went off to lunch. I remember thinking in my young practitioner’s mind: Why were they divorced if they got along so well? Now, decades later, I know that many times people simply can’t be happy together as married couples but still can be friendly, if not friends. Frankly, if people can go to lunch on the way out of the courthouse, it usually bodes well for their futures and the futures of children, if they have them.
Can you share a story about the funniest mistake you made when you were first starting? Can you tell us what lesson you learned from that?
When my sons were little boys, I had spent hours preparing for an appellate argument, even down to determining where I could park after a trip upstate to an area where I did not regularly appear in court. I had everything laid out — both the legal part and the practical part — the night before. I drove 90 minutes to the appellate courthouse, parked my car handily in the preplanned area, and as I was getting out of the car, looked down to see that I was wearing a skirt from one suit and a jacket from another. Best-laid plans of getting out of the door early so as to be upstate well in advance of “showtime” meant that I had dressed in the dark and paid more attention to running my argument through my mind than what I wore. Clearly, no one cared what I wore as long as I was respectful, but being mentally prepared for the argument was essential. What I learned from that experience, and many other arguments and speeches over time, is that the best work is done when one is the conduit of persuasive arguments and facts. Both internally and objectively, presentations get delivered with less angst and more effect — at least for me — when I concentrate on the message and not on what others might think of me.
Do you have a favorite “Life Lesson Quote”? Do you have a story about how that was relevant in your life or your work?
I have a couple. “Don’t mistake activity for achievement.” This is something that clients should remember. Making lots of noise (or filing lots of pleadings) is not a sign that your case is being well handled. This is also an apt adage in our personal lives. Moving, moving, moving often means that we aren’t actually accomplishing much. I heard a presentation by a federal judge one fall afternoon about six years ago that stuck with me. He talked about the lost art of lawyers thinking about the best course of action and taking the time to do so. He shared that he did not send out his decisions on Friday afternoons, rather waiting until Monday mornings so that practitioners did not spend all weekend assessing how to explain his decisions to their clients and how to best respond. He bemoaned — and I think rightly so — that with ubiquitous electronic communication, people, especially those in service professions, believe they have to answer now. That does not always allow for consideration and may not lead to the best course of action. In my line of work, I know that it is important for my clients to know that I “hear” them, so I try to acknowledge that I have received a communication (usually email) and say that I will respond when I am at my computer, able to think about what they have said, and able to consider courses of action.
The other is, “Don’t judge your insides by other people’s outsides.” Don’t compare yourself with what you see on the surface with other people. It only robs you of your self-confidence. I have always been my sharpest critic, and I remember years ago having a boss tell me that my demeanor reflected that I never doubted myself. Anything but was the truth. You never know what’s going on in others’ lives. Just because they look like they have it all together, it doesn’t mean it’s true. In a work context, particularly in negotiations or mediations, I find that trying to really hear what is important to people — rather than working off of their “outsides” — is a key to resolution. I think that works in our personal relationships as well.
Are you working on any exciting new projects now? How do you think that will help people?
In recent years I have become very involved with the Norwalk Community College Foundation, where I serve on the board of directors, recently as chair of the Scholarship Committee. We offer financial and mentoring support to students, including those transferring from NCC to four-year colleges to complete their baccalaureate degrees. We have some recently launched programs to particularly assist cohorts of students statistically shown to be at risk of not completing their associate degrees. We also have programs to bring students up to speed in English language and math so they can start college-level courses at the community college if their education up to that point has not given them the necessary skills. Many of these students have overcome significant obstacles in pursuit of their education, and it’s incredibly gratifying to work on these initiatives, particularly at a time that has been so challenging for everyone.
I’m also proud of the work that I have been able to do on the Advisory Committee to the ABA Commission on Youth at Risk. The Commission is focused on the improvement of child welfare laws and programs across the nation.
I am also on the board of the American Counsel Association. The ACA gives scholarships to law students who are in need; best of all, so many, if not all of the ACA scholarship recipients, are focused on initiatives and/or career paths in public interest law or international human rights law.
While it is an ongoing project, my work as an editor of the American Bar Association’s quarterly magazine publication — the Family Advocate — is always rewarding. I am often an issue editor and the work is intellectually stimulating. Being an accomplished family lawyer means learning all the time. I have been lucky enough to have complicated cases in my practice; both in the custody and financial fields. I find my work as a presenter and an editor on family law topics helps me stay on top of developments in related fields and aids me in representing clients in complex cases.
Ok. Thank you for that. Let’s now shift to the main part of our discussion. Can you tell us a bit about your experience going through a divorce, or helping someone who was going through a divorce? What did you learn about yourself during and after the experience? Do you feel comfortable sharing a story?
I have been representing divorce clients (and to a lesser extent, served as a children’s representative in contested custody, probate and criminal disputes) for decades. As a result, I have watched a lot of people go from the depths of despair or guilt to rebuilding their lives. What I’ve found — and I represent both women and men — is that if one can only view themselves as a victim, it is very hard to constructively move forward. Particularly when a partner has been disloyal, it is very hard for the “left-behind” spouse to trust others and themselves in personal relationships.
In contrast, my own personal experience has been with the illness and death of my spouse. When you have thought of yourself as part of a team, and you have come to be a solo act, you have to learn to trust yourself. If you don’t trust your own judgment you are stuck. It is hard to make decisions and certainly hard to forge any new relationships if you can’t develop, hear and trust your inner voice. I can see that this process is one that my clients have to journey through as well. Unless you can rely on your own judgment, your divorce will define you. That’s not what you want! You don’t want a divorce to be your last chapter, only a chapter.
In your opinion, what are the most common mistakes people make after they go through a divorce? What can be done to avoid that?
One of the most common mistakes people make is spreading themselves too thin. They keep moving and don’t give themselves time to process the divorce. You need to focus on yourself and the people who are most important to you. Doing too much is what I refer to above as “activity” which may prevent you from “achievement.” Give yourself a chance to process and to try to learn from what has happened to you. If you feel overwhelmed, try to identify your objectives and approach them step by step.
One of the worst mistakes divorce clients make is internalizing victimhood. Family and friends might believe that they are supporting and validating you by talking about the unfairness of what has happened to you, or even the downright lack of quality of your spouse for what they have done to you. That may be true, or what you need to hear for a while. But if you live in that space for a long time, you will be sad, likely angry and, worst of all, stuck.
Let yourself grieve, but remember the place for that grief is not in court or negotiations. Try to view your case as a business deal, which, of course, can be very hard to do, particularly when children are involved. Find a lawyer who will counsel you, not just fight. Learn your finances and find a good financial adviser.
People generally label “divorce” as being “negative”. And yes, while there are downsides, there can also be a lot of positive that comes out of it as well. What would you say that they are? Can you share an example or share a story?
One of the positive outcomes of divorce is that it can yield the opportunity to reinvent (or remember) yourself. Like the pandemic has done for many, a cataclysmic event such as a divorce can give you the chance (or leave you no choice but) to think about what you want to do that you were not able to do when married. While you may have to start working for the first time in years, or move your home, those life changes can allow you to change the course of your life. You can take chances, find a place to live that really is nurturing, or start a new career. I have one former client who was home with her children for about 20 years after she had attained her MBA. She had a chance meeting while waiting for an almost adult child to get off the train, chatted with someone, interviewed for a job and 12 years later she is the “right-hand man” for a second financial services office. She has become recredentialed, and not only did she find herself the financial security that she needed, but she launched a “second-act” career after the age of 55 with intellectual and social stimulation. I canvassed some of my clients who have become friends and they all talked about a variation on the same theme when identifying the positives that came out of their divorces: learning to stand on their own, having control over your own life, enjoying a sense of accomplishment, reconnecting with people you may have neglected and reevaluating what’s important to you.
Some people are scared to ‘get back out there’ and date again after being with their former spouse for many years and hearing dating horror stories. What would you say to motivate someone to get back out there and start a new beginning?
Actually, I think it’s important not to try to “get back out there” too soon. It’s important to be comfortable with being alone, being or becoming self-reliant, and identifying what you want of yourself and others before you start dating again. I have seen, though, that while we all have heard horror stories about online dating, I know of many success stories. Just remember what is important to you. And use your common sense.
What is the one thing people going through a divorce should be open to changing?
Get over your disappointment with your failed marriage. All that ever does is hold you back. This is a time to remember what you really enjoy in life, including avocations or small luxuries that you have sacrificed or compromised during the time that you were married or have been raising a family. Of course, depending on the time of your life that divorce happens, you may not have as much freedom to make immediate changes for yourself. You may still be ministering to the needs of a young family, for example. But that doesn’t mean that you can’t remember who you were or what you want to be.
Try not to allow bitterness to drive your choices. Sure your children want a dog and you want to make them feel that their lives are going to improve rather than deteriorate, but before you take on more responsibility, examine your motivations. If you are getting a dog because you have always wanted one and your spouse was allergic, this is one of the changes you can make that may improve your life. If you are getting an animal because you want to get back at the other parent, and you are already up to your eyeballs with responsibilities, think harder and longer on the topic.
Instead of thinking about what you have lost or about failure, think of this stage of life as opportunity. Depending on your stage of life and work situation, you may want to consider whether you are interested in moving to a different residence. Do you want to move closer to adult children who may have moved away and enjoy time with grandchildren? Do you want to live in a small bungalow on the beach rather than a large house in the suburbs with the attendant maintenance responsibilities? If you are unable to make large shifts in your lifestyle due to others who depend on you, you can make small ones. Maybe you can read until 3 a.m. with the light on now and you couldn’t before.
Ok, here is the main question of our discussion. If you had a close friend come to you for advice after a divorce, what are 5 things you would advise in order to survive and thrive after the divorce? Can you please give a story or example for each?
- Focus on the things that make you heal. Find experiences that make you, if not happy, at least peaceful. Take yourself away somewhere that is a balm to your soul.
- Focus on others. If you have children, you may want to focus on their needs. It may help you develop some good energy and, after all, they too are suffering loss; at the very least a loss of their routine. Do not put them in the middle of their parents, not even between a parent and a step-parent. Encourage freedom to associate. Helping other people makes me feel better; that may not be true for everyone and every situation, but I think it is true for many.
- Keep an eye on your finances. Don’t overspend, at least not until you have a sense of what you need. Don’t make quick decisions out of emotion.
- Find a good therapist or renew your relationship with one you had. If you don’t feel heard, go to a different therapist. Work on your own strength and power.
- Take care of yourself physically as well as mentally. There is great stress during a divorce and after. Get your sleep. Pay attention to your body when it doesn’t feel well. Even standing tall and straightening your shoulders can make you feel better. Eat healthily and exercise. On that last one, do as I say, not as I do, please.
The stress of a divorce can take a toll on both one’s mental and emotional health. In your opinion or experience, what are a few things people going through a divorce can do to alleviate this pain and anguish?
Avoid people who want to gossip and bring you down. Don’t accept negative energy. Get involved with people and experiences that make you happy and tackle your problems one at a time.
Do you have any favorite books, podcasts, or resources related to this topic that you would recommend to our readers?
After the Affair by Dr. Janice Spring. The book talks about how affairs happen because of an individual’s life experience, not necessarily from their marriage relationship. Notably, it also hypothesizes that an affair does not mean that your marriage needs to end, but that in order for the couple to move on the reasons for the affair need to be understood so that trust might be rebuilt. Without trust, the relationship cannot survive.
I also value TED Talk The Journey Through Loss and Grief by Jason B. Rosenthal, which showcases the lessons learned at the end of life of his late wife Amy Krouse Rosenthal. Amy wrote an essay published in the “Modern Love” column in The New York Times entitled “You May Want to Marry My Husband.” Mr. Rosenthal’s talk is about love and loss, and while it may not be about divorce there are many similarities, I believe, between loss through divorce and loss through death. In fact, Mr. Rosenthal likens those losses and adds the loss of a meaningful job. He talks about layer upon layer of loss, as his father died shortly after his wife (which resounded with me as I lost my mom a year or so before my husband) and questioning how much he could bear. He talks about believing that he would not be able to find joy again, but promises that he has. He expounds seriatim examples of the beauty he acknowledges in each day and ends with the challenge: What will you do with your intentional empty space? What will you do with your fresh start?
While not all divorce lawyers agree, I liked the 2019 film Marriage Story. It showed how hard the divorce process can be, how people may feel the need to win and impose their wishes and, in the end, how opening one’s mind to the possibilities of a different life than the one you envisioned can be generous and sustaining. When people are divorcing, they seldom both want futures that look like the futures that they envisioned together. The last scene of Marriage Story — which portrayed a moment of kindness that nourished a fractured but still bonded family and reflected some healing to the benefit of the young boy involved — makes me smile each time I watch it.
Because of the position that you are in, you are a person of great influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the most amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. 🙂
I wish that we could be a society that is so much less divided than we are now; that we could all agree that equal access to voting rights, good health care, a truly living wage and good education for all are both worthy rights of individuals and good for society. Following the rule of law and believing that we should provide these safe spaces for people should not be considered political statements, but rather commonly held humanitarian goals toward which we are working.
We are very blessed that very prominent leaders read this column. Is there a person in the world, or in the US with whom you would love to have a private breakfast or lunch and why? He or she might just see this if we tag them 🙂
The Obamas. I simply admire them. I admire their marriage, their family, their vision and their integrity. And we know that Mr. Obama can sing. I love to sing!
Thank you for these great insights and for the time you spent with this interview. We wish you only continued success!
Attorney Livia DeFilippis Barndollar On 5 Things You Need To Know To Survive And Thrive After A… was originally published in Authority Magazine on Medium, where people are continuing the conversation by highlighting and responding to this story.
